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Re: Michael and Tom
#7868
04/14/04 09:02 AM
04/14/04 09:02 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 21 NJ
tuneturner
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 21
NJ
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I wouldn't say Michael isn't accusing him of anything but more like testing his loyalty. Michael knows he has to level the playing field and that Tom's feelings have been hurt along the way because he feels he should be closer to Mike on all the decisions. Knowing Tom could consider the VP position from Houstan's Hotels Mike asks him if he is going to come along with him in these things he has to do. Once Tom shows his loyalty all is well again. Have a great day!
"This is the business we have chosen."
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Re: Michael and Tom
#7869
04/14/04 09:41 AM
04/14/04 09:41 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,721 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,721
AZ
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Several things are happening in that scene: First, Michael had always acted as his own consigliere. He needed Tom after the Tahoe shooting. Now, he's putting Tom back in his place. Second, he's acting on his dissatisfaction with Tom's performance. He left the family in Tom's hands before he departed for Miami, New York and Havana. When he came back, he found that Kay had had an abortion, and the Senate committee had nearly trapped him into perjury convictions because Tom failed to discover that Pentangeli was alive. You and I might not blame Tom for these things, but I think Michael's view was that "it happened on Tom's watch." Third, Neri was making a move to displace Tom as Michael's number-two guy. Notice the smirk on Neri's face when Michael makes that speech about the job offer and Tom's mistress--it's clear that Neri was the source of that info.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Michael and Tom
#7871
04/14/04 04:08 PM
04/14/04 04:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 198 Saddle Brook, NJ
Justin
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 198
Saddle Brook, NJ
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I wonder if Neri knew that Rocco was never going to return from the shooting of Roth and his position would be cemented even further.
Justin
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Re: Michael and Tom
#7875
04/15/04 10:04 AM
04/15/04 10:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Originally posted by The Scottish Don: I always found it odd that Neri had the balls to try and squeeze his way past Tom in the "rankings", Tom being a brother in everything but blood after all.... Why would anyone find it odd? That was the nature of the business they were in. You paid your dues, scratched & clawed if you had to...to get a higher and higher position within the Family. Neri had been around for many years at this point and saw how Tom was being treated by Michael (though he may not have been made aware of all the reasoning behind it). He knew all along what would eventually happen to Fredo. The fact that Tom was Michael's brother wouldn't inhibit Neri in the slightest bit if he saw an opening that could move him further up and Tom further out. Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Michael and Tom
#7877
04/19/04 01:02 AM
04/19/04 01:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 310
EnzoBaker
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 310
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Originally posted by Krlea: Quick question: At the end of Godfather II, Why does Michael start accusing Tom? Is it just Michael's paranoia getting him and Tom is the only one left to accuse? Besides the job offers, is there something that I am missing? It was to lay the groundwork for GF III. The MIchael-Tom Hagen conflict was going to be the major story line. 
"You did good."
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Re: Michael and Tom
#7878
05/04/04 01:36 AM
05/04/04 01:36 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 64 washington dc
sonof70s
Button
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Button
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 64
washington dc
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Related question: what did Michael mean in GFI when he said "you're out Tom". He wasn't out, but did Mike see Tom as a threat to take over the family and needed to tell him to back off?
"...for old times' sake?"
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Re: Michael and Tom
#7880
05/04/04 09:50 AM
05/04/04 09:50 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,721 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,721
AZ
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Two reasons, I believe: First, as Hevy said, Michael wanted Tom to be completely "legitimate" so he could successfully front for Michael in Nevada, where Michael intended to be "legitimate." Second, Michael told Tom, "You're not a wartime consigliere." I believe he meant that Tom lacked "Sicilian cunning" and "ruthlessness"--qualities that Michael may have felt could have prevented the Five Families War of 1946, Sonny's death and Michael's own succession to the Donship. In the novel, Tom blames himself for Sonny's death. "He was, he knew now, no fit consigliere for a family at war. He had been fooled, faked out, by theFive Families...Old Genco Abbandando would never have fallen for it, he would have smelled a rat...tripling his precautions."
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Michael and Tom
#7881
05/04/04 10:34 AM
05/04/04 10:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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Originally posted by EnzoBaker: Originally posted by Krlea: [b] Quick question: At the end of Godfather II, Why does Michael start accusing Tom? Is it just Michael's paranoia getting him and Tom is the only one left to accuse? Besides the job offers, is there something that I am missing? It was to lay the groundwork for GF III. The MIchael-Tom Hagen conflict was going to be the major story line. [/b]I don't think so. The two films were more than 15 years apart, and, if I'm not mistaken, MP & FFC originally had no intention of making #3 until Paramount twisted their arms (and probably waved a lot of money at them).
"Difficult....not impossible"
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