Were both Sam Wings Carlisi and Joe Ferriola sharing the duties as capos in Cicero at one point? Do we know of any instance of there being friction?

I do know that this Melrose Park/Cicero thing could eventually have had something to do with the more recent Sarno-Zizzo issues, but when Wings and Ferriola were both on the street, what was the dynamic in Cicero like?

Carlisi was based in Melrose Park and Ferriola was in Cicero. Aiuppa was over both and even as boss still exerred tremendous influence over those two areas so he kept everyone in line. After he went to prison, Carlisi took over and the dynamic didn't really change.

The issues between Sarno and Zizzo occurred during a sort of power vacuum between the two crews. Most of the more powerful members of both crews had been locked up during the nineties and it was practically a race to see who would gain control again as guys slowly started trickling out.

I've read in some places Carlisi took over for Ferriola and in other places I've read vice versa.

Was it one crew that they were in, or all Melrose guys only answered to Carlisi and all Cicero guys had to worry about was Ferriola?
If it was one crew, did they make decisions together?

Two separate crews. Carlisi was direct with Aiuppa before Ferriola even became boss of Cicero. Ferriola was also, despite heavy rumors at the time, never the top boss of the Outfit. Carlisi was Aiuppa's guy. Once Aiuppa went to prison, Carlisi became top boss.

Carlisi was given his own crew around 1979. Melrose Park was ran by Aiuppa even after he became boss. There was no single capo before Carlisi but Aiuppa ran it through intermediaries like Carlisi, Bucky Ortenzi, Louie Eboli, and a number of other guys.

Thanks, Snakes. When did Ferriola get his own crew? Right when Aiuppa became boss?

And I'm assuming prior to '73 when Aiuppa became boss, Aiuppa was capo over Melrose Park AND Cicero?

I'd ask more about the Aiuppa and Cicero timeline, but are there any good in-depth articles on Aiuppa? Much like the ones that have been posted here about Ricca, Ross Prio and Sam Battaglia?

It seems like there are more Cicero than Melrose Park guys in control now. Are there any remaining active Melrose Park guys?

Ferriola became a boss when Turk Torello died in 1979. Sam Battaglia was boss of MP until he went to prison in 1967. After that, it was essentially a shared territory between Aiuppa, Chuck Nicoletti, and a few other guys like Nick Palermo. Eventually, Aiuppa gained complete dominance over the area.

Marcello is in prison and Zizzo and Chiaramonti are dead. There was no one else in that crew powerful enough to keep Sarno out. The western suburbs (sans Elmwood Park) is now one singular crew.

Side note thats kinda related to this topic.. but i found a podcast called I believe "the real real" that did an hr long phone interview with Frank Cullota that was very interesting.. its a recent one and the hosts actually know their shit kinda and he divulged way more information about the Outfit itself and Joe Ferriola..

For someone like me that doesn't know a whole lot about the Outfit, I highly recommend it...He says that the scene in "Casino" where Frank vincent was called back to Chicago to meet with their top boss Remo Gaggi to answer if Nicky was banging Aces wife ginger actually happened to Cullota but he met with Joe Ferriola who asked him the exact question like in the movie to which he lied... found that interesting bc i was under the impression Remo Gaggi was based on Joey Aiuppa, but he claims it was based on Joe Ferriola since he was in charge of Tony and protecting the Stardust... Cullota also talked a little bit about Turk Torrello , said he was the smartest, most honorable/best gangster jn the Outfit he wirked with (whatever the fuck "best gangster" means)....just thought id share

If you go into the Podcast store and search "mobsters" youll find it under the real real or the the real the real some shit like that then- frank cullota...

Joey Lombardo was actually Spilotro's boss. I think Gaggi was just based on a combination of Outfit bosses.

Snakes- i defer to you and toodoped on the Outfit 150% my brother.. that's just what Frank Cullota said in this interview. Maybe its thr case that while Joey Lombardo was tonys boss per se.. Joe Ferriola was the actual boss at the time or at least in charge of overseeing Lefty snd the skim according to Frank.?? Or maybe he was just the guy the Outfit had dealing with Cullotta? See Cullotta at this time he's talking about im not sure if its after Strawman where Aiuppa and I believe Joey the Clown got sentenced to what 15-20? I mean idk about you pal but Frank Cullota is one of those rats that doesn't strike me as an over exaggerated pos.. at least to me after reading his books seems to not over inflate his role and be honest but again i defer to knowledgeable guys like you.. what do u think?...

The podcast is worth a listen i mean its free if u have iTunes and he goes into more detail about alotta shit i didnt know about Vegas and the movie Casino

Snakes, in the 70s and 80s was the Cicero crew stronger or the Melrose Park crew?

They weren't necessarily in competition with one another. Melrose Park was seen as Aiuppa's territory, even after he became boss. He had a few, handpicked guys who were tasked with watching over the area. Carlisi was one of them. The area did not have what you would call a "formal" crew until sometime in the early eighties, when Carlisi had formed a capable group of guys under him.

Snakes was Sarno and Aiuppa enemies? I remember a post somewhere where you said something about somebody couldn't stop Sarno's rise, did I misread? Or was Sarno just too powerful no matter if he was an Aiuppa guy or not? I forget if it was here or elsewhere, I've always wondered how Sarno rose to power. Got any good reading on him? Thanks and sorry if I misunderstood.

Sarno wasn't high enough in the Outfit to have beef with Aiuppa before the latter went to prison; I believe you may have misread me. Sarno's alleged beef was with Anthony Zizzo regarding video poker machines in the western suburbs. From what I understand, Sarno and Zizzo were both attempting to gain more power in that territory and their feud came to a head in 2006, when Zizzo disappeared. By this time, Aiuppa and Carlisi were both long dead and James Marcello (Zizzo's immediate superior) was about to be imprisoned for life; Sarno probably felt it was as good a time as any to act.

Gotcha. Thanks! I knew I probably misread, I was just making sure. When was Sarno even made? Hate to kind of sidetrack the thread

Don't know for sure. Pin pointing dates for Chicago making ceremonies is difficult since they made less guys in proportion to the other families in addition to having less cooperators.

If I had to guess, I'd say he was made either in the early nineties before he went away or right after he got out, as a sort of "reward" for doing his time.

I see. That makes sense. Thanks