I made a "Punk Appreciation Thread" a while ago, and we all voted for who we thought was the most inspirational and influencial punk band of all time. Well, this is similar... But a bit different. There's been the question "The Ramones or The Sex Pistols?" in the "new game" thread on these boards numerous times, including a couple times by me. It's a big deal between punk fans, Ramones or Sex Pistols. I just wanted to see what the rest of you thought. This has nothing to do with ALL the punk bands ever, just simply these two. They are obviously the founders of punk [The Ramones in America and The Sex Pistols in the UK], so who do you think is the best/better?

I chose The Ramones. I LOVE The Sex Pistols -- both bands are in my top ten favorites. But I just think The Ramones were so much more influencial. They kept it together for almost three decades [up until Joey's untimely death, RIP] and kept pounding out albums without compromising. While all the other punk bands died or changed, The Ramones kept it together and stayed true, while The Sex Pistols couldn't hold it together before they imploded after only one album. Believe me, I love The Sex Pistols, but The Ramones just did so much more. Granted, they had more time to do so -- but that's a positive for me, because they were able to.

Anyhow, what's your guy's opinion?

i´m voted the ramones, i´d love the sex pistols too was a great band, and both are the fathers of modern punk, also i´d have to mention another great band the clash.

The Clash are definately a great band, and without a doubt the most experimental of the fathers of punk. But I think it was The Ramones and The Sex Pistols who really made punk what it was.

The Ramones, just because they were around so much longer. Sure the Sex Pistols were great, but if the Ramones hadn't come around Punk would've been just a flash in the pan.

BTW the Clash were great too

I think The Ramones made more for the music than The Sex Pistols.
SP were just a rebel movement "oooooh! I am the anticrist!". They had great songs, but they all sound just equal, but changing the lyrics.
The Ramones made music. They really contributed to music.
And if we talk about music contributing with them, I'd prefer "What A Wonderful World" played by The Ramones, than "My Way" played by The Sex Pistols...

Just a correction... Joey Ramone, solo, did "What A Wonderful World" and Sid Vicious, solo, did "My Way." They didn't do it with the whole bands.

If we're gonna get into musicianship, we should leave it at the door. Though I love these bands, I can admit they really weren't "talented," per se. But their musical abilities isn't what made them legendary and great -- it was what they did with their passion for music and the movement they started.

Sorry for my mistake, didn't know that.
There are two different things:
Passion for music, i'll leave it for The Ramones.
Movement Started, goes to The Sex Pistols.

Nah, man... That is still a mystery. No one knows for sure who "started it." They were both started at completely different places in the world. They both started it in their respectful areas. I wouldn't say The Sex Pistols are the founders; they both are.

these are two of my favorite bands and it's hard to pick a better one, but I voted for the Ramones since I love 20 albums from them and just one from the Sex Pistols. also, in terms of importance, the Ramones are bigger. 9 in 10 rock'n'roll bands that came out after them were affected by them. I agree that the Sex Pistols is more about starting a movement. they seemed to care much more about Punk than the Ramones.

but who started it the way it was were the Ramones. they did a concert in UK in 1976 that was the major reason for the birth of english punkrock. of course the guys in UK already had something in my mind but the Ramones shaped it the way it turned out to be.

about The Clash - I also love this band, and musically, this is the greatest punkrock band ever. just listen to London Calling and you won't believe what you're listening to.(though I prefer their first record)

I have London Calling -- what a great album! Everything from The Guns Of Brixton to Rudie Can't Fail to London Calling to Lover's Rock. One of punk's personifying records.

The Sex Pistols were more about a rebellion -- The Ramones were more about the music and a mood... A passion about what was going on. That's why they lasted for a much longer time, and that's why The Sex Pistols exploded after one album.

yeah that's right but in my opinion the main reason for the Sex Pistols explode after a year was that it was a band leaded by 2 crazy guys (Sid Vicious and Johnny Rotten)

Looks like I'm the sole vote so far for the Sex Pistols. I also love them both and remember when they first came out. But the Ramones seem more like bubble gum punk, whereas there was more of an anger, a f*** you in the music of the Sex Pistols. The fact that they were so outrageous they culdn't even keep their band together for more than an album or 2 shows how they had a more "punk" attitude about them.

I am not saying the Pistols were better. I'm just saying that their attitude and music were more in tune with "punk" and more influential on bands afterward.

As for The Clash, if they were on the poll, they would have gotten my vote. They're my favorite punk band of all and one of mt favorite bands of all time. Coincidentally, I've been relistening to all their albums the past couple days. Their stuff holds up a lot better than most bands from the 80s. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to listen to Black Market Clash...

With punk rock progenitors the Sex Pistols and the Ramones sharing the 2002 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nomination ballot with more populist acts such as Jackson Browne and Tom Petty, this year's end-of-ceremony jam session could be an anarchic sight to behold.

The committee might not be brave enough to elect both punk acts; and though seminal, the Pistols, who recorded only one album proper in their short career, might be too anti-establishment for the typically conservative Rock Hall. By contrast, the Ramones recorded tirelessly for two decades — exerting considerable influence on everyone from U2 to Green Day — and have the sympathy of the industry following the death of singer Joey Ramone, who succumbed to lymphoma on April 15 (see "Punk Pioneer Joey Ramone Dead At 49").

Last week, around 1,000 members of the nominating committee received the 2002 Hall of Fame ballot, which also includes first-time nominees Talking Heads, funk-soul icon Isaac Hayes, alt-country maverick Gram Parsons, '60s teen-pop singer Gene Pitney, R&B girl group the Chantels and doo-wop acts the Dells and the "5" Royales.

The 2002 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ballot will also include repeat nominees AC/DC, Patti Smith, Brenda Lee, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Black Sabbath, the latter of whom may decline their nomination, as they have in years past (see "Ozzy Tells Rock Hall To Forget About Black Sabbath").

Artists become eligible for the Hall of Fame 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria includes "the influence and significance of the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll," according to the organization.

This year's selection process began last spring when a group of around 60 industry professionals made up of record executives, lawyers, managers, journalists and musicians convened to brainstorm potential nominees, said the Hall of Fame publicist. A laundry list of names was pared down to the 16 nominees.

Between five and eight final inductees are typically chosen by the committee, which is made up of a pool of 1,000 voters from throughout the music industry.

Inductees for the class of 2001 were Aerosmith, Steely Dan, Queen, Michael Jackson (solo), Paul Simon (solo), Solomon Burke, Ritchie Valens, the Flamingos, James Burton and Johnnie Johnson (see "Aerosmith Thrilled, Steely Dan Unimpressed At Rock Hall Ceremony").

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum is located in Cleveland, Ohio.

Before the police came, it was a great party. Make that a capital G.

Let's take all this sequentially: after an hour of waiting, the 'Queen Elizabeth' left Charing Cross Pier at 6.30, and, after a moment's hesitation, decided to head downstream. If you aren't on the List, you aren't on. Nobody jumps . . . not even Palmolive. Bye bye. Begins very restrained - too too 'vousetes', but come Rotherhithe, some booze and more food, and everyone gets mellow, if such a thing is possible. I mean it's a nice evening (albeit a bit chilly) and there's space all around instead of tower-blocks, so why be surprised?

The disparate crowd mixes surprisingly well - the only jarring note in fact is the refusal of the bar to serve doubles . . . never know what these notorious punk-rockers, might get up to. Downstream aways, we turn as a banner is unfurled along the length of the boat - Red on yellow, it proclaims proudly 'Queen Elizabeth - the new single by the Sex Pistols 'God Save The Queen', or something simlar really low profile. Inside, the conversation's covering some pretty recherche territory, but, hey, upstairs, in the covered area the tapes start rolling. Dance. Great selection - moving from arcane dub to the Ramones thru Paul Reverere and the Raiders. More boozing/dancing/yammering - general party patter - but expectation ai heightened They have to start playing outside the Houses of Parliament.

We repass under Tower Bridge, picking up a police boat on the way - sniff sniff sussy sussy - but it falls behind: meanwhile Jordan's telling me about this group she's managing called the Ants. Upstream it gets chillier - most take refuge in the downstairs bar (big boat this), ostensibly for a film that never happens. There's no pretence now: we're waiting.

More turns (Battersea funfair - for the detail-obsessed) and it's home run time.

The Pistols take the 'stage' - at the back of the raised covered area: the conditons are appalling, and it's amazing that any sort of sound comes out. The main one is feedback - this delays their start and is never fully resolved. Any blase traces are swept away - pulses race/everyone rushed to be the front. Pure mania. Rotten gives up on losing the feedback and the band slams into 'Anarchy', right on cue with the Houses Of Parliament. A great moment. It's like they've been uncaged - the frustration in not being able to play bursts into total energy and attack. Rotten's so close all you can see is a snarling mouth and wild eyes, framed by red spikes. Can't shake that feedback: he complains won't sing for the first verse of 'No Feelings' but the others carry on. More frustration to explode.

By now the atmosphere is electric/heart thumps too hard/people pressing, swaying - it's like they have to play to blast them away. They're also playing for their/our lives - during 'Pretty Vacant' and the next song two police boats start moving around in earnest. Now all adrenalin is flat out do it do it do it now now now NOW - suddenly in 'I Wanna Be Me' they get inspired and take off / 'No Fun' SCREAMED out as the police boats move in for the kill is one of the rock 'n' roll moments EVER. I mean EVER. (Think about that).

What/shit suddenly we're in the dock 'n' the power's off and Paul Cook's beating the hell out of the drums 'n' there are all those police and WHAT'S HAPPENING and what the fuck IS this . . . Fax. We dock. The power is off. The bar is closed. Suddenly no more party. Suddenly a lot of police on the quay. Altercations begin. Nobody wants to leave. The police want us to leave. So does the owner. The owner can terminate the contract of hire at any time. Small print, baby.

Richard Branson loses his £500. Richard Branson doesn't want to leave. Tension. Indecision. People trickle off, slowly, after a half-an-hour. Most stay on. More police. The police move on the boat. People move off. Nothing happens, bar a bit of pushing and shoving on either side. Someone gets nicked. Now things start getting crazy. People are aided up the long gangway. Explosion of movement. Fear. Confusion. Flash/people running/Ted restrains/'Get 'Im '/crying faces/spin around/black marias/no objectivity/each for himself/quick spurts of movement/hate/'You're shit'. And there's 11 people in the marias and we're on the pavement wondering what's been happening. Very quick. We leave. We go to Bow Street police station, via the Zanzibar (whose cutesy-poo decadence is sickening). No message. No bail. No press. No, not an IPC card. 'There are people we'd like to arrest but we don't know who they are'. A direct hint. Buzz off. And don't wait on the pavement. No help.

And then the seven of us REALLY slip into 1984: we move to this pub where everody is enacting this weird ritual which involves the wearing of red/white/blue hats and 'singing' arcane folklore. They want us to join in/we can only make silly jokes out of pain. Zoom zoom /'I don't wanna grow up: there's too much contradiction'. Chickens come home to roost baby, you'd best believe. Some jubilee. But look: I mean McLaren's brilliant at the Theatre of Provocation didn't he set all this up? To an extent. Provocation, yes incitement, no. OK, I mean all of us were expecting SOME interference, let's be frank - but not such emotional overreaction.

WHATEVER the rights and wrongs of the individual cases, objectively, yeah, Responsibly, that's what it was. You know - nothing doing in the centre of town and these allegedly 'notorious -foul-mouthed punk-rock-Sex-Pistols' ... Image vs. reality.

The charges run like this (approximately): Malcolm McLaren/'Using Insulting words likely to provoke a breach of the peace': Vivien Westwood/'Obstructing a policeman': Sophie Richmond and Alex McDowell/'Assault': Debbie and Tracy/'Obstruction': Ben Kelly and Chris Walsh/'Obstruction': Jose Esquibel/'Threatening behaviour': Jamie Reid/'Assault'. All have denied the alleged charges, and have been released on bail/surety until their case will be heard.

No future, eh? Feelings are bound to run high. But wait. Neither 'side' is blameless but there are a few things left to say: To a certain extent the barriers are down a bit more. That means if you look anything like a Sex Pistol, or a 'punk-rocker', you're likely to get pulled in. Right: that means - No martyrs, No victims, No heroes, No stereotypes. No games on this score, No provocation. Things have gotten more serious. No escalation...? Uuuh. Um. Is it too late for me to say that it was a Great party and that the Pistols were amazing? Oh, it is, but it's a shame, because that's a part of the evening too.....

Alonzo -- yeah, I always thought The Ramones were more poppy, but that's just 'cause of the voice Joey Ramone had. Johnny Rotten couldn't sing [neither could Joey, lol, but that's not that point] so he just roughed out vocals. But, yeah, The Sex Pistols carried the attitude -- The Ramones had the passion.

And The Clash are awesome -- and if this was a "favorites poll" then voting for them would be cool... But I'm talking influencial, and I don't think The Clash hold a candle to The Ramones/The Sex Pistols when it comes to the influence of punk. When it comes to musicianship, they do -- but The Ramones/Sex Pistols just influence way more, hands down.