Its been said that after the shooting of Joe Colombo; The Snake became boss; or underboss if you believe old Tom Dibella took over. I actually believe Carmine made Tom acting boss but who knows?

My question is; Carmine was in jail and only a captain during the shooting of Joe Colombo. How did he gain so much power to become boss? I know Sonny Franzese was in prison at the time and he was the underboss. Was the Persico crew actually the most powerful crew in the family?. I know the family was trying to avoid another war but it seemed all the other captains stepped aside easily for Carmine. There was no jockeying for the boss position.

Do anyone believe that Persico may have had Colombo murdered so he could become Boss? Never figured that one quite out; but it seemed he had the most to gain.

It is common knowledge in the blood family that it was all a Commission go ahead from Dibella keeping the seat warm including the family and crews were all prepared awful convenient the whole thing .

Carmine was in everything on the street and did a lot of favors for the bosses that were the Commission but was very much used and I am sure a willing participant in the whole thing .

I am surprised this is not talked about more on here .

And sure would be nice for some facts to prove it or at least support it.

Never being mentioned with the Colombo hit always struck me funny as well. I mean the whole commission clearly wanted his civil rights group gone right? Seems like if Snake could pull that off from in the can then the seat would be waiting on him, and it was.

Pure speculation on my part.

Cantalupo said he had often seen Persico visiting Joe Colombo in the 60's. So it looks they were close.

I think it was a matter of they made him a offer(Carmine) and he probably had no choice.

Gambino wanted him gone and so did everyone in the life.... he set back the life justas much as Gotti did .

And Colombo had plenty on Gambino all that was terrible for everyone down to the associates ...not in the beginning but after Colombo was acting like he really was not a boss of a crime family saying all that shit.

Think about it who had the most to lose if he kept talking and who stood to gain with him quiet the mob !

@ Serpiente

What things did he do for the commission? Do u think he was supported by all of them for the boss position? He's still in prison at that time.

@Kingoflittlenewyork

Exactly. I agree with what your saying; Everything exactly fell in his place after Colombo was hit. How in the heck did the entire family fall behind him???? Being the Boss and/or delegating the same responsibility to guys like Tom Dibella. I believe Persico had something to do with the Colombo hit.

@Hollander

They were close at some point. Theres a picture out there with them together in the late 60's. Maybe there was a disagreement a few years later that made Persico want to hit Colombo while he was in prison? I really believe it but this is just my opinion.

He was the most powerful captain if not one of twoand the commission knew he put the life above all ! look at the blood family they still do !

But I am sure it was set up by Gambino and one of his sons or brother ect. delivered the message that Joe was told to stand down and he stuck it to the other bosses that were clearly telling him to zip it !

Perfect setup most likely the guy that killed him was told that he would be a rich man and the guy that killed the killer was told to make sure the black guy can never be taken alive .

Michael Franzese in Blood Covenant:
"Because Colombo had focused on keeping my father in jail and disbanding Dad's loyalist, Carmine Persico's soldiers were allowed to stay together. That placed Persico in a position to mount a successful coup from behind bars. He installed Thomas DiBella, an aging, low-keyed capo, as the acting don, pending his own parole."

Yeah Serp, in Underboss Gravano speaks on how well respected Persico was on the streets.That he was a "legend" in Bensonhurst. That he always kept his word and was infact one of the few mob guys that was held in such high regard by Gravano. I may be wrong but I believe Gravano said that after the Colombo hit a contract was put on Gallo immediately.And that the next boss made good on that contract or Persico that is.So Persico had the main suspect in the hit killed

The shooter had also tried to blow up the Italian-American Civil Rights League's offices six months prior to the Colombo murder.

Persico was well respected and feared. He was with the Gallo brothers, during that time he had a couple of meetings with Frank Costello. We dont know all the details, but Frank told Carmine that he was part of Joe Profacis family and thus must remain loyal to his boss, unless he commission ordered his boss death. He switched sides and attempted to kill Larry Gallo. After that he was close to many in of Profaci inner circle, and there was friction with Joe Magliocco. When Joe Colombo came into power he made Persico one of the new capos. His crew was growing stronger. He took part in the Charles LoCicero murder and his crew gained more power and especially with him making alliances with many other capos. Colombo allowed Sonny crew to go weak as he was fearful that that crew might make a move on him. After Joe Colombo was shot and in a coma, his only rival was Emmanuele Cammerata, who was killed in 1972.

Giacomo, good stuff. I'm pretty sure Persico was also the one who spit out a bullet. I imagine his name carried a lot of weight back then. I'm going to read more on the Cammerata killing. I wonder if Scarpa was somewhere giving info on Persico at the time. It seems Scarpa was fierce in his loyalty during the 90's war

Who was cammerata?? Never heard of this name was he a capo?

He was a soldier in the New Jersey crew and related to the Profacis and Maglioccos. He was big in the the narcotic smuggling business. He moved to Miami and opened an olive oil business, that served as a front for the smuggling. Due to the many bosses he met and did business with, he was named Capo but only had one soldier who served under him. He became a senior adviser to the Colombo family in the late 1960s and remained in that position till he was killed. According to Joe Rodriguez a hitman and enforcer, his boss Blackie Reino a big time drug dealer and soldier in the Genovese crime family ordered it. In this case the Westside went to the Colombo administration to get the ok to hit Cammarata. The fact Reino was never harmed after it became well known that he was behind Cammarata killing showed that the Colombo family approved it.

First I've ever heard of this

Tom debella steps down as boss november 1980. The commission okd it. Carmine goes back to jail for 2 yrs for bribing a IRS agent. Dibella asked to be acting boss. I always wonderd if dibella died in jail i think he was indicted in the colombo family rico case but died awaiting trial

Tom dibella lowkey had a successful run as any boss from like 1973 74 to 1980. Hes the guy who filled up the ranks from 75 to 80 . Taking a guess he probaly inducted 50guys into the family in those years. Must have made a ton of money. Guess he was well liked by gambino who pushed for him to be boss after colombo gets shot

@Giacomo.

Thats interesting he took part in the Charles LoCicero murder. Profaci actually didnt want to make Carmine in the late 50's; but Charles who was Consigliere at the time stepped in and changed his mind. Why was he murdered?

@Pmac

Old man Dibella definitely had a good run as Acting boss; or Boss. Think Mike Franzese said he was the one who made him. Wasn't Carmine out on the street in 79-81? How did fare up against the other bosses during that 2 or 3 year span?

From what everyone posted; I could see why Carmine was able to make a power grab without much resistance. He was a powerhouse as a captain; and the dominoes fell into the right place for him. Made a smart decision to make Tom Dibella acting boss; He wasnt power-hungry.

I've always believed that the Columbo shooting was an inside job. Columbo formed the League as a way to pressure law enforcement to drop charges against his son and him. All his troops were expected to spend time recruiting individuals and businesses to join the League--with Columbo keeping all the money. Columbo's high public profile was anathema to the Commission, and his denial that the Mafia existed weakened his members' ability to extort victims due to the fear factor.

As for the shooting: How did Jerome Johnson, a no-account who spent his time hanging around college campuses trying to seduce college girls, get an expensive Bolex movie camera and press credentials, if not from family members? Who but Columbo's bodyguards would let him and the girl he was with get close to Columbo? Who but they would kill him instantly while letting his girlfriend disappear from the podium? And, I wouldn't be surprised if NYPD had a hand in it--notice how no one was arrested in Johnson's killing?

Of course Columbo had to go. And, who would pick up the pieces if not The Snake, who headed the most powerful faction in the family.

Zavattoni, there are so many reasons why LoCicero was murdered, I believe Joe Colombo was also paranoid of many members. LoCicero and Sonny both had powerful crews, Sonny was locked up so there was no longer a real threat there. The Sidge on the hand was supporting some Bonanno members to disregard some of the rules Colombo and Gambino hand put down on the family before the commission could put those rules to a vote, which a few were but others weren't. Colombo made Persico a capo to appease him and keep him at bay. The hit on LoCicero was the ultimate test of loyalty to Colombo on both Carmine Persico and Greg Scarpa. If they refused they would be killed. Scarpa killed LoCicero while Persico was a back up shooter. It was no easy feat, but with Carmine backing him up, Scarpa remained loyal to Persico for the rest of his life after the hit. The Sidge helped both get their buttons in the family and was the mentor of the Grim Reaper. We only have the account of a bartender who says that both Persico and Scarpa came into a Bensonhurst bar a couple days later looking kind of blue, ordered three shots, downing their drinks while ordering the bartender to pour the third down the drain as they consumed theirs. It could be interpret either way.

I always found Joe Yacovelli really interesting. Was he a strong leader too?

Dibella must have had a good relationship with carmine. Carmine was his underboss threwout his whole incarceration in the 70tys. He has his brother allie who was only made in 1972 according to scarpa the acting underboss and consig at a point. All the shit about him being a puppet was bullshit. Gambino liked him and put him in charge his first underboss was some long island guy brancato??? Friends wit sonny f. When he retires or steps down for persico 1980, carmine goes back to jail for 2 yrs and asks dibella come out of retirement for those 2 yrs. His brother at that time is on the run. Gerry land is official underboss and street boss

Joe yac is very interesting he was acting boss for a brief time and either was forced into retirement or just went to florida and said fuck it im not going back to nyc. He died in the 90tys. Someone posted his obit or death number on board. You never heard a peep about him. Mystery. Was he sick. Guy fled after the joey gallo shooting and never went back. Weve never heard him running rackets in florida either or being even consulted. He went from acting boss 1970 71 to ghost

He wasnt even that old think he was born in 1932.

Not sure if he was in on the murder or not. I think Gambino and Lucchese might’ve given the ok to whoever it was that orchestrated it.

Did Persico get the idea to represent, and sink himself, in court from watching the Ted Bundy trial on TV? How common was it back then for a defendant to represent himself in high profile trials?

I think Persico knew he was going down; so he might of just wanted to do things his own way; instead of listening to a lawyer. Would he be out now if he wasn't convicted? I know he still had to serve out his sentence from the Colombo trials.

@pmac
How was Persico as boss on the streets in 79-81? Was he close with other bosses?