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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#964791
02/26/19 11:28 AM
02/26/19 11:28 AM
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 71
CartelSpy
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Is there a big difference that distinguishes a mafia family from a cartel? Or are they interchangeable? The difference is that a crime family isn't focused only on drug trafficking but are also in the white collar crimes and every lucrative rackets;another difference would be the fact that there an induction ceremony and that (in sicily) arent used children as sicarios. And more important a sicilian crime family stay in the shadow while the Cartels are always in war each others. Depends on what you mean by difference? In terms of what? The cartels are like semi-street insurgents and operate like a urban milita/insurgents but at the same time they are really organized and low key in some aspects. They operate openly yet at the same time secretly. They have commandos made of sicarios that are grouped and coordinated by retired or ex-police or military to move around and cause an "operation" on enemy turf to kidnap and extract info of rival cartels especially about the distributions of drugs and weapons, stash houses, and rival captains and street and or local bosses. They are in the open, when the military is not on the streets but they also remain behind the scenes or out of sight when the military is in. They have kids on the payroll to look out for them from the military and many know the military convoy/routines etc. I really don't know much about the cartels but I can picture it by info over the past years and some knowledge about them about songs and other things.
Last edited by CartelSpy; 02/26/19 11:28 AM.
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#964792
02/26/19 11:31 AM
02/26/19 11:31 AM
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 71
CartelSpy
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Is there a big difference that distinguishes a mafia family from a cartel? Or are they interchangeable? The difference is that a crime family isn't focused only on drug trafficking but are also in the white collar crimes and every lucrative rackets;another difference would be the fact that there an induction ceremony and that (in sicily) arent used children as sicarios. And more important a sicilian crime family stay in the shadow while the Cartels are always in war each others. I think another big factor is that the mafia considers their members as not perishable or throwaway while the cartels do think of their sicarios, halcones(informants) and drug sellers as throw away.
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: CartelSpy]
#964793
02/26/19 12:50 PM
02/26/19 12:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,499 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,499
naples,italy
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Is there a big difference that distinguishes a mafia family from a cartel? Or are they interchangeable? The difference is that a crime family isn't focused only on drug trafficking but are also in the white collar crimes and every lucrative rackets;another difference would be the fact that there an induction ceremony and that (in sicily) arent used children as sicarios. And more important a sicilian crime family stay in the shadow while the Cartels are always in war each others. I think another big factor is that the mafia considers their members as not perishable or throwaway while the cartels do think of their sicarios, halcones(informants) and drug sellers as throw away. Speaking about the sicilian mafia,the mafiosi consider themselves as part of a secret society that live and made money in the shadow,the society have rules that even was broken under Riina reign,the old guys wanted to rebuilt it. The tried to rebuilt the old rules: every family had its territory and is part of the province,and various provinces made the commission with a capo dei capi. The cartels live with the violence and the terror and doesn't matter if the members live or not. For the mafia if a man was inducted,he was untouchables without his family ok for whack him. The cartel are more similar to the camorra clan.
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#964841
02/27/19 12:57 AM
02/27/19 12:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,316
Revis_Knicks
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Was: Revis_Island
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Joined: Jan 2013
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Is there a big difference that distinguishes a mafia family from a cartel? Or are they interchangeable? The difference is that a crime family isn't focused only on drug trafficking but are also in the white collar crimes and every lucrative rackets;another difference would be the fact that there an induction ceremony and that (in sicily) arent used children as sicarios. And more important a sicilian crime family stay in the shadow while the Cartels are always in war each others. I think another big factor is that the mafia considers their members as not perishable or throwaway while the cartels do think of their sicarios, halcones(informants) and drug sellers as throw away. Speaking about the sicilian mafia,the mafiosi consider themselves as part of a secret society that live and made money in the shadow,the society have rules that even was broken under Riina reign,the old guys wanted to rebuilt it. The tried to rebuilt the old rules: every family had its territory and is part of the province,and various provinces made the commission with a capo dei capi. The cartels live with the violence and the terror and doesn't matter if the members live or not. For the mafia if a man was inducted,he was untouchables without his family ok for whack him. The cartel are more similar to the camorra clan. Why did the Camorra never really adopt the ways of the Sicilians or Calabrese? Wasn’t there one point in time when the Camorra was making as much money as both of them?
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: OakAsFan]
#964864
02/27/19 12:14 PM
02/27/19 12:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,499 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,499
naples,italy
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Based on what I've read, the relationships with corrupted government officials is different between Siclian families and Camorra, to, are they not? Isn't Camorra willing to work with crooked government officials as a partnership, while Sicilian mafia families have too much distrust for government to ever partner with corrupted members of it, and only work with corrupted officials that they completely own and have by the balls, through some form of blackmail or leverage? Oakasfan in both cases there are rogue cops that will give informations in change of money,the sicilian mafia had more political power and had more protection than a small camorale clan but I repeat doesn't matter if are camorra,mafia or ndrangheta there will be ever government officials that will help or will protect the crime groups. An ex ample the former Mayor of Rome Gianni Alemanno get 6 and half years for accept bribe by mafia capitale crime group.
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#964865
02/27/19 12:18 PM
02/27/19 12:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,316
Revis_Knicks
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Was: Revis_Island
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Was: Revis_Island
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[/quote] Why did the Camorra never really adopt the ways of the Sicilians or Calabrese? Wasn’t there one point in time when the Camorra was making as much money as both of them? The camorra clans never accepted someone above all of them like the sicilians with the commission,the only cases was in 1800 with the Bella Società Riformata and with the NCO and NF. Simply the camorristi doesn't understand why create a hierarchy and a capo dei capi in campania while they made money and stay well with this situation. For the second question maybe in the 1800 with the Bella Società but only in Naples. [/quote] I would’ve thought the 70s and 80s because of guys like Afieri, Nuvoletta’s and Zaza among others.
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#964870
02/27/19 01:10 PM
02/27/19 01:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,499 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,499
naples,italy
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Why did the Camorra never really adopt the ways of the Sicilians or Calabrese? Wasn’t there one point in time when the Camorra was making as much money as both of them? The camorra clans never accepted someone above all of them like the sicilians with the commission,the only cases was in 1800 with the Bella Società Riformata and with the NCO and NF. Simply the camorristi doesn't understand why create a hierarchy and a capo dei capi in campania while they made money and stay well with this situation. For the second question maybe in the 1800 with the Bella Società but only in Naples. [/quote] I would’ve thought the 70s and 80s because of guys like Afieri, Nuvoletta’s and Zaza among others. [/quote] Afieri, Nuvoletta and Zaza was feared and respected and was choose for fight against cutolo but after his downfall the NF ended and the members started again to kill each others. Its anarchy, today even the smallest clan wont accept to follow the order of another camorrista, doesn't mean that maybe this would be more money,live better etc no and no! Even the Casalesi are divided in 3/4 families each with own rackets.
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#964876
02/27/19 06:24 PM
02/27/19 06:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,731
m2w
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,731
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The camorra clans never accepted someone above all of them like the sicilians with the commission,the only cases was in 1800 with the Bella Società Riformata and with the NCO and NF. Simply the camorristi doesn't understand why create a hierarchy and a capo dei capi in campania while they made money and stay well with this situation. For the second question maybe in the 1800 with the Bella Società but only in Naples.
i dont understand how the goverment dismantled the old camorra in 1909 after the cuocolo's trial bella società riformata/camorra was very powerful since early 1800
Last edited by m2w; 02/27/19 06:25 PM.
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#964888
02/27/19 08:32 PM
02/27/19 08:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo
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Is there a big difference that distinguishes a mafia family from a cartel? Or are they interchangeable? I'll just state the obvious: A mafia family is one organization, a cartel is a group of organizations involved in one joint venture. If we are speaking of Central American or North American cartels compared to a mafia family in the States or in Europe, the differences are also going to be determined by the business model. The business model of the C or S American cartels involve farmers and peasants who grow their contraband, likely with government sanction. In contrast, a mafia family might usually be involved in distribution or refinement of that product. To my knowledge mafia families don't have armies of peasants and farmers working for them. The cartels many times are outright land owners and farmers.
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#964904
02/28/19 02:00 AM
02/28/19 02:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,731
m2w
Underboss
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Underboss
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another big difference is the longevity, the mafia-type groups last a lot of time, even hundred years, a cartel by far less, look like medellin and cali cartels were entirely dismantled, and sinaloa and the mexican ones would be in the next years one of the greatest successes of the mafias is handed down from generation to generation, that's why italian mafia in the united states is still alive and other groups jewish, irish etc. disappeared, at least those active long ago
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#964908
02/28/19 06:11 AM
02/28/19 06:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 29,754
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
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Nuvolettas and Casalesi are part of Cosa Nostra. As are the Zazas if I’m not mistaken. What does it say about the Camorra that their most successful families are part of cosa nostra and not independent? Lorenzo Nuvoletta,Michele Zaza and Antonio Bardellino was inducted in cosa nostra as sign of respect but their organization wasn't part of Cosa Nostra and after their deaths their clan continue to be a camorra clans. The casalesi have initiations based on the Mafia and the repentant Antonio Iovine referred to their organization with cosa nostra.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#964962
02/28/19 08:55 PM
02/28/19 08:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,316
Revis_Knicks
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Was: Revis_Island
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Nuvolettas and Casalesi are part of Cosa Nostra. As are the Zazas if I’m not mistaken. What does it say about the Camorra that their most successful families are part of cosa nostra and not independent? Lorenzo Nuvoletta,Michele Zaza and Antonio Bardellino was inducted in cosa nostra as sign of respect but their organization wasn't part of Cosa Nostra and after their deaths their clan continue to be a camorra clans. Antonio Calderone said that Michele Greco essentially controlled the Nuvoletta clan. Idk how accurate that is.
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: m2w]
#965209
03/03/19 11:15 PM
03/03/19 11:15 PM
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 71
CartelSpy
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another big difference is the longevity, the mafia-type groups last a lot of time, even hundred years, a cartel by far less, look like medellin and cali cartels were entirely dismantled, and sinaloa and the mexican ones would be in the next years one of the greatest successes of the mafias is handed down from generation to generation, that's why italian mafia in the united states is still alive and other groups jewish, irish etc. disappeared, at least those active long ago The mafia organizations are definetely more deep rooted into their communities and socities unlike the cartels which are practically "new", the mafia families also haven't had much intervention from the most powerful state or nation of the world, the USA unlike in Colombia and Mexico, the U.S DEA and CIA are more deeply involved and entrenched into their information entrenched into their information/intelligence gathering. It's very different from Europe where the INTERPOL doesn't have enough intelligence gathering techniques and sophisticated equipment to go after the bosses or cartels. The U.S is in a joint operation with the Mexican government to dismantle or "get rid" of or even control the drug trade how they see it benefits either or both, socities .
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Re: Family vs Cartel
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#965211
03/03/19 11:23 PM
03/03/19 11:23 PM
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 71
CartelSpy
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Are there any cartels that have stood the test of time? The Gulf Cartel has operated since the 30s but then again there was no intervention from foreign or state/federal governments to try and take it down.
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