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Did Michael want to be Don?
#991944
05/27/20 02:17 PM
05/27/20 02:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,715 AZ
Turnbull
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OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,715
AZ
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It's easy to explain Michael's transition from family outsider at Connie's wedding, to hand-kissed Don Corleone at the end of the movie, to circumstances: Vito's incapacitation, Fredo's incompetence, Sonny's assassination, making him the default Don. But, do you think Michael actually wanted to be the Don?
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Turnbull]
#991946
05/27/20 03:09 PM
05/27/20 03:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
Dob_Peppino
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
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Evidently, He didn't want that life, that why he joined the military. Circumstances made it a nessacity, we already know that. IMO it doesn't matter if he wanted to, He needed to protect his blood family from harm, that was his duty. Protecting his Fathers business came with that responsibility. All the actions at the end GF1 proves this. In GF2, Now its his business and the legacy of his family both the mob and blood, that he must protect. By that point, It was his life, it was apart of survival. Michael was able to supercede Don Vito because he learn from his experience in the military and going to Sicily, gave him the training of a true Mafioso (in the context of the story).
Last edited by Dob_Peppino; 05/27/20 03:11 PM.
"Joe Bananas went after Carlo Gambino, the war went on for seven years..... When guys go to the mattresses, they're not out earning" -Tony Soprano
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Turnbull]
#991990
05/28/20 12:34 PM
05/28/20 12:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
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It's easy to explain Michael's transition from family outsider at Connie's wedding, to hand-kissed Don Corleone at the end of the movie, to circumstances: Vito's incapacitation, Fredo's incompetence, Sonny's assassination, making him the default Don. But, do you think Michael actually wanted to be the Don? Hamilton opined that the sources of war lay in the natural ambitions and avarice of all human beings. The same could be said of Michael: whatever actions he took as necessary to protect his father eventually fed his ambition and avarice.
Last edited by olivant; 05/28/20 01:57 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Turnbull]
#992003
05/28/20 04:34 PM
05/28/20 04:34 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
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Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
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I think that's a complicated question.
But, in the end, I think the answer is "yes."
Not so much because he wanted to be Don in and of itself but because he wanted certain things out of life (power, success, the ability to make his own choices, legitimization of the Corleone name) and he realized that he could best accomplish them by becoming Don.
I always think back to the scene outside the hospital when Enzo's hands are shaking. Michael lights his cigarette for him and looks down to see how steady his own hands are. I think, right then, the lightbulb goes off in Michael's head - "I'm good at this!"
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Turnbull]
#992054
05/30/20 12:08 AM
05/30/20 12:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,457 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,457
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My take, for what it is worth! I don't think “Michael actually wanted to be the Don†Besides it was a given that Sonny was the heir apparent and “legitimization of the Corleone name†under Sonny was not in play? Michael may have “wanted certain things out of life (power, success, the ability to make his own choices...)†which Michael was going to “accomplish†away from the Corleones crime business - Senator Corleone, Governor Corleone... I don't believe the below had any bearing to Michael wanting to be the Don 1. “I'm with you now†at Vito's hospital bedside 2. lighting Enzo's cigarette 3. killing Sollozzo and McCluskey Michael's involvement was solely and all about protecting Vito, at that stage Dob_Peppino – Extracts: Circumstances made it a nessacity He needed to protect his blood family from harm, that was his duty I believe Michael had no aspiration of “becoming Don†which was thrust upon him “circumstances: Vito's incapacitation, Fredo's incompetence, Sonny's assassination, making him the default Don†and Michael had to resign himself to his 'destiny'
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#992109
05/31/20 02:43 PM
05/31/20 02:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,715 AZ
Turnbull
OP
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OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,715
AZ
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Excellent posts, all!  I don't disagree with any. Michael certainly didn't start out wanting to be the Don--or even to sit with his family at Connie's wedding, or even to identify with them ("That's my family, Kay, it's not me."). And yes, circumstances had a big part in propelling him into the family business. But, I don't think he was a reluctant Don. As I posted in another thread: Michael had choices and alternatives at every step of his ascent to the Donship, and he chose the Mafia way. He talked a lot about "responsibility" and "legitimacy," "protecting my family from the horrors of this world." But, he liked the absolute power of being the Don--of having no restraints on eliminating enemies, buying alliances,getting his way by any means, legal or illegal, through the sheer exercise of power. He could only get that by wanting to be the Don, not by wearing the mantle of Donship reluctantly. In the novel, Vito says, "A man has but one destiny." He was referring to Sonny's desire to be in the family business instead of law school. He might just as well have been referring to Michael's choices.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Turnbull]
#992617
06/11/20 02:11 AM
06/11/20 02:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2
ken22000
Associate
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Associate
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Posts: 2
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: ken22000]
#992657
06/12/20 08:43 PM
06/12/20 08:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,488
Trojan
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,488
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Turnbull]
#992695
06/14/20 12:38 AM
06/14/20 12:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,457 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,457
Australia
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It seems to me both Vito and Michael were “reluctant Dons†the Donship was, by all accounts, thrust upon both Vito and Michael, their respective "circumstances:"
Vito having lost his Grocery store job because of Fanucci, then Fanucci muscling in, demanding to wet his beak in Vito's [Clemenza and Tessio's] risky, hard earned money - including to put food on the table for his wife Carmela and their kids
Michael because of Vito's [Corleones] need, pride to re-establish the Corleones glory, standing, reputation etc. that they are not weak and crumbling like everyone says "Vito's desire to make the Corleones top Mafia family again"
The tragedy for Michael is, Michael's situation was not dire like Vito's Michael still had the opportunity to try a new life away from Mafia
Vito embraced the Mafia life “I don't apologize that's my life†whereas Michael to Geary “we're both part of the same hypocrisyâ€
Vito's bonus! an old fashioned traditional wife, Carmela, with her unconditional love and loyalty for Vito Michael's wife [“and Kay -- well -- Kay was -- well --â€] became Michael's horror
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Trojan]
#992825
06/18/20 12:19 AM
06/18/20 12:19 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,457 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,457
Australia
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If my memory serves me right, among others - It occurred to me Vito and Michael were not dissimilar in their - before and after – becoming evil, ruthless, murderous crime boss GoodVito - dancing with Carmela at Carlo and Connie's wedding
- picking up baby Santino from the playpen and rocking Santino
- “for me, there's only my wife and son [is beautiful]†while watching the play with Genco
- looking on distressed as sick baby Fredo is crying
- Carmela “what a nice pear†then reaching for, holding each other's hand and kissing at the dinner table
Michael - perfect! host to Kay at Carlo and Connie's wedding
- Christmas shopping with Kay
- after “The Bells of St. Mary's†at Radio City Music Hall
- promising show and dinner outing in the city to whining! Kay just before the garden scene with Vito
- dancing at Anthony's party [Kay did point out Michael's “legitimization of the Corleone name†promise was past it's deadline!] but Michael was trying....
- protecting Kay after the bedroom shooting, putting his body on the line!
- Sicily scenes with Appollonia
- drinks with Fredo in Havana
BadVito - shutting Carmela out of business, starting with when he went into the bathroom and closed the door on her after receiving the bundle of guns from Clemenza
- when Carmela asked Vito “Don't you feel well? Is your boss treating you all right?†Vito says somewhat curtly “forget itâ€
Michael
Michael [however in fairness! to Michael, what was Kay expecting?!] - telling Kay that he did not have Carlo killed
- shutting the door on Kay after Kay [overstayed] visiting Anthony and Mary but Kay 'aborted' their 'son'
UglyIt is the business they had chosen Kill or be killed
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#992927
06/21/20 05:03 AM
06/21/20 05:03 AM
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 611
Capri
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 611
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Re: Did Michael want to be Don?
[Re: Turnbull]
#992950
06/22/20 12:22 AM
06/22/20 12:22 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,457 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,457
Australia
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Vito embraced the Mafia life “I don't apologize that's my life†whereas Michael to Geary “we're both part of the same hypocrisy†An astonishing admission from someone as self-deluded as Michael. Vito was astonishing on all counts Vito was instrumental, contributed and caused the death / gloom / doom of every one of his children Vito was slipping even in business including his handling of the drugs trade “Ten years ago could Sollozzo have gotten to Vito" The official Mario Puzo Library The Godfather is Mafia leader Vito Corleone, benevolent despot who stops at nothing to gain and hold power
The Godfather is a friendly man, a "reasonable" man, a just man -- and the deadliest gang leader in the Cosa Nostra
Finally the truth!
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