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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: ColonelReb]
#1018461
08/21/21 12:12 AM
08/21/21 12:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
MafiaStudent
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
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David Schoen, representing Orena, delivered the bombshell Brooklyn Federal Court filing — including a 1971 law enforcement document identifying Persico as a member of the FBI’s “Top Echelon Informant Program.†The 50-year-old paperwork was revealed through a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed against the Justice Department.
Schoen said he hesitated to go public with the charge until doing some digging to verify the shocking story.
“Independently of this document, two lawyers who represented Mr. Persico in the past have said that they had solid reason to believe that this information is accurate, as did another cooperating witness who gave examples that he believed proved the point,†Schoen wrote in a Friday email to defense lawyer Anthony DiPietro. “I would never have filed such a document without having taken these steps.â€
In another email, Schoen said he heard from a former Colombo associate declaring “the assertion is 100% right.†The mobster was a cooperating witness who testified against two of Schoen’s clients.
“I met with the DOJ inspector General and two FBI agents. ... All agreed that the document reflected exactly what it has been represented to reflect,†he said. “I avoided filing this document for quite some time because of the seriousness of it and the implications.†That document has been out. It's not a list of members of the Top Echelon Informant Program. It's a list of Colombo Captains "Named" by Top Echelon Informant NY 3461 which is Greg Scarpa You're late to the game Colonel Reb. Read up further in this thread.
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: MafiaStudent]
#1018465
08/21/21 03:31 AM
08/21/21 03:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 705
ColonelReb
Banned
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Banned
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 705
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David Schoen, representing Orena, delivered the bombshell Brooklyn Federal Court filing — including a 1971 law enforcement document identifying Persico as a member of the FBI’s “Top Echelon Informant Program.†The 50-year-old paperwork was revealed through a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed against the Justice Department.
Schoen said he hesitated to go public with the charge until doing some digging to verify the shocking story.
“Independently of this document, two lawyers who represented Mr. Persico in the past have said that they had solid reason to believe that this information is accurate, as did another cooperating witness who gave examples that he believed proved the point,†Schoen wrote in a Friday email to defense lawyer Anthony DiPietro. “I would never have filed such a document without having taken these steps.â€
In another email, Schoen said he heard from a former Colombo associate declaring “the assertion is 100% right.†The mobster was a cooperating witness who testified against two of Schoen’s clients.
“I met with the DOJ inspector General and two FBI agents. ... All agreed that the document reflected exactly what it has been represented to reflect,†he said. “I avoided filing this document for quite some time because of the seriousness of it and the implications.†That document has been out. It's not a list of members of the Top Echelon Informant Program. It's a list of Colombo Captains "Named" by Top Echelon Informant NY 3461 which is Greg Scarpa You're late to the game Colonel Reb. Read up further in this thread. Been in this game when you were on Pampers. 25 years now unless you wanna send me a link to an FBI file? Mafia Student? Sit down. young one. So you think Carmine Persico Salvatore mussachio and John Oddo are all Top Echelon Informant s that have the same Informant #NY 3461? You still live with your parents don't ya?
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: Louiebynochi]
#1018467
08/21/21 03:42 AM
08/21/21 03:42 AM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 705
ColonelReb
Banned
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Banned
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 705
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ITS OBVIOUS HE WAS A RAT IN 71 so he could move to the top of the Colombo family which he did soon after. I’m sure he wasn’t a rat for decades he wouldn’t have done time but all these guys at best rat on they’re enemies from time to time or to eliminate the competition which is what he did here probably ratting on Colombo so he could take over and resolve his highjacking case in a favorable way to himself.... Louie you are quite possibly the dumbest motherfucker I have ever seen in my life. Do you do drugs or were you dropped on your head as a baby?
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: ColonelReb]
#1018471
08/21/21 06:15 AM
08/21/21 06:15 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
Louiebynochi
Banned
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Banned
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
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ITS OBVIOUS HE WAS A RAT IN 71 so he could move to the top of the Colombo family which he did soon after. I’m sure he wasn’t a rat for decades he wouldn’t have done time but all these guys at best rat on they’re enemies from time to time or to eliminate the competition which is what he did here probably ratting on Colombo so he could take over and resolve his highjacking case in a favorable way to himself.... Louie you are quite possibly the dumbest motherfucker I have ever seen in my life. Do you do drugs or were you dropped on your head as a baby? If you knew who I really was, the last thing you would call me is stupid....You’ve been in this long enough to know how the life is...the life is treacherous, full of back stabbing and deceit...I’m 100% sure Carmine Persico wasn’t a rat for decades, he wouldnt have done time. BUT I THINK ITS VERY POSSIBLE he could have briefly been a rat in 1971, giving info on Joe Colombo and it’s been rumored for decades that he possibly helped frame Sonny Franzese to remove him as competition to the throne...We both know even though Tom Dibella was Boss after 71 , that Carmine pulled all the strings through Dibella and the Consigliere Allie Persico Sr... Carmine Persico was a smart guy and harnessing the power of the FBI and using it your advantage is the smart move especially in that life where not making the smart move can cost you your life...
Last edited by Louiebynochi; 08/21/21 06:18 AM.
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: ColonelReb]
#1018474
08/21/21 08:29 AM
08/21/21 08:29 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
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David Schoen, representing Orena, delivered the bombshell Brooklyn Federal Court filing — including a 1971 law enforcement document identifying Persico as a member of the FBI’s “Top Echelon Informant Program.†The 50-year-old paperwork was revealed through a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed against the Justice Department.
Schoen said he hesitated to go public with the charge until doing some digging to verify the shocking story.
“Independently of this document, two lawyers who represented Mr. Persico in the past have said that they had solid reason to believe that this information is accurate, as did another cooperating witness who gave examples that he believed proved the point,†Schoen wrote in a Friday email to defense lawyer Anthony DiPietro. “I would never have filed such a document without having taken these steps.â€
In another email, Schoen said he heard from a former Colombo associate declaring “the assertion is 100% right.†The mobster was a cooperating witness who testified against two of Schoen’s clients.
“I met with the DOJ inspector General and two FBI agents. ... All agreed that the document reflected exactly what it has been represented to reflect,†he said. “I avoided filing this document for quite some time because of the seriousness of it and the implications.†That document has been out. It's not a list of members of the Top Echelon Informant Program. It's a list of Colombo Captains "Named" by Top Echelon Informant NY 3461 which is Greg Scarpa You're late to the game Colonel Reb. Read up further in this thread. Been in this game when you were on Pampers. 25 years now unless you wanna send me a link to an FBI file? Mafia Student? Sit down. young one. So you think Carmine Persico Salvatore mussachio and John Oddo are all Top Echelon Informant s that have the same Informant #NY 3461? You still live with your parents don't ya? -- Thats NOT what she was saying at all Colonel. In fact, Lisa is the one who actually posted up the documents that clearly refutes the accusation that Persico was a rat. What she's saying is that your position (that both she and I agree with) has been posted up earlier in this thread. We happen to be in agreement on this one.
Last edited by NYMafia; 08/21/21 08:30 AM.
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: ColonelReb]
#1018476
08/21/21 09:46 AM
08/21/21 09:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
MafiaStudent
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
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David Schoen, representing Orena, delivered the bombshell Brooklyn Federal Court filing — including a 1971 law enforcement document identifying Persico as a member of the FBI’s “Top Echelon Informant Program.†The 50-year-old paperwork was revealed through a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed against the Justice Department.
Schoen said he hesitated to go public with the charge until doing some digging to verify the shocking story.
“Independently of this document, two lawyers who represented Mr. Persico in the past have said that they had solid reason to believe that this information is accurate, as did another cooperating witness who gave examples that he believed proved the point,†Schoen wrote in a Friday email to defense lawyer Anthony DiPietro. “I would never have filed such a document without having taken these steps.â€
In another email, Schoen said he heard from a former Colombo associate declaring “the assertion is 100% right.†The mobster was a cooperating witness who testified against two of Schoen’s clients.
“I met with the DOJ inspector General and two FBI agents. ... All agreed that the document reflected exactly what it has been represented to reflect,†he said. “I avoided filing this document for quite some time because of the seriousness of it and the implications.†That document has been out. It's not a list of members of the Top Echelon Informant Program. It's a list of Colombo Captains "Named" by Top Echelon Informant NY 3461 which is Greg Scarpa You're late to the game Colonel Reb. Read up further in this thread. Been in this game when you were on Pampers. 25 years now unless you wanna send me a link to an FBI file? Mafia Student? Sit down. young one. So you think Carmine Persico Salvatore mussachio and John Oddo are all Top Echelon Informant s that have the same Informant #NY 3461? You still live with your parents don't ya? Clearly you don't what you're talking about. I clearly stated that when I uploaded these documents that informants have unique identifiers. Therefore all those men in those documents are NOT INFORMANTS - Including Persico - BUT being informed on by #3461 (and the redacted informants) who is Gregory Scarpa. So, why don't you learn to read before you open your mouth.
Last edited by MafiaStudent; 08/21/21 09:54 AM.
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: ColonelReb]
#1018477
08/21/21 09:51 AM
08/21/21 09:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
MafiaStudent
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
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David Schoen, representing Orena, delivered the bombshell Brooklyn Federal Court filing — including a 1971 law enforcement document identifying Persico as a member of the FBI’s “Top Echelon Informant Program.†The 50-year-old paperwork was revealed through a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed against the Justice Department.
Schoen said he hesitated to go public with the charge until doing some digging to verify the shocking story.
“Independently of this document, two lawyers who represented Mr. Persico in the past have said that they had solid reason to believe that this information is accurate, as did another cooperating witness who gave examples that he believed proved the point,†Schoen wrote in a Friday email to defense lawyer Anthony DiPietro. “I would never have filed such a document without having taken these steps.â€
In another email, Schoen said he heard from a former Colombo associate declaring “the assertion is 100% right.†The mobster was a cooperating witness who testified against two of Schoen’s clients.
“I met with the DOJ inspector General and two FBI agents. ... All agreed that the document reflected exactly what it has been represented to reflect,†he said. “I avoided filing this document for quite some time because of the seriousness of it and the implications.†That document has been out. It's not a list of members of the Top Echelon Informant Program. It's a list of Colombo Captains "Named" by Top Echelon Informant NY 3461 which is Greg Scarpa You're late to the game Colonel Reb. Read up further in this thread. Been in this game when you were on Pampers. 25 years now unless you wanna send me a link to an FBI file? Mafia Student? Sit down. young one. So you think Carmine Persico Salvatore mussachio and John Oddo are all Top Echelon Informant s that have the same Informant #NY 3461? You still live with your parents don't ya? In addition, if you knew anything, you would KNOW that the document I posted is an exhibit submitted to the Court in support of Orena's motion. This is the FULL DOCUMENT - not just the one page posted in the NY Daily News. Go check out Pacer - look at the motion and then the exhibits attached and you'll find it. Plus, just in case you didn't know -- if you look at the bottom right-hand margin of this document - you'll see "Clemente". If you're as smart as you say you are, then you will know that "Clemente" is referring to Angela Clemente, who is the person who broke the Scarpa story wide open many years ago. And this document is one of the documents she obtained during her investigation of the FBI and Scarpa. You should read about her.... https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/nyregion/the-mob-and-angela-clemente.html
Last edited by MafiaStudent; 08/21/21 09:52 AM.
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: jace]
#1018482
08/21/21 11:08 AM
08/21/21 11:08 AM
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
MafiaStudent
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
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NJein who originally posted this as if it was fact was wrong, but way more wrong than anyone is the reporter and the newspaper that put it out as fact without regard for the truth, even though anyone looking through the document released can see it does not name him as a rat at all. Now the reporter is doing podcasts with admitted snitches without any admission he was wrong. Of which ColonelReb is a HUGE fan and fully supports even throwing Superchats at the two roving reporters.
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: ColonelReb]
#1018507
08/21/21 04:53 PM
08/21/21 04:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,697
n.e.philly
hoodlum
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,697
n.e.philly
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ITS OBVIOUS HE WAS A RAT IN 71 so he could move to the top of the Colombo family which he did soon after. I’m sure he wasn’t a rat for decades he wouldn’t have done time but all these guys at best rat on they’re enemies from time to time or to eliminate the competition which is what he did here probably ratting on Colombo so he could take over and resolve his highjacking case in a favorable way to himself.... Louie you are quite possibly the dumbest motherfucker I have ever seen in my life. Do you do drugs or were you dropped on your head as a baby? Reb , ur a very funny guy , I always like reading ur posts...knowledgable 2.
I didn't want to leave blood on your carpet...
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: jace]
#1018517
08/21/21 05:38 PM
08/21/21 05:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
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ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
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If it's true, and it looks like it is, it shouldn't surprise anyone. I've always suspected certain top bosses of being top echelons if they appeared themselves to have a narcotics operation, however secret or discreet. Why? Because everyone knows "the G" is behind most if not all of the top drug dealers. Therefore any boss, no matter how legendary, if he appeared to have any narcotics connection, even if it was off shored and outsourced to foreign criminal conspiracies and groups in other countries, that boss likely received immunity from the CIA. You can be a top echelon that the police or DEA don't even know about, it's just that when they go to arrest you, someone always interferes who has higher jurisdiction. I have no proof, but do I believe Carmine Persico was a drug dealer, ultimately? Yes.
Alfa, which bosses do you suspect? Perscio, Genovese, Castellano, Anastasia, and John Ormento, to name a few were all either going to prison for life or had cases and investigations pending. They even framed Genovese in his second conviction. Succeeding bosses in a few examples were also sent away:Gotti, for the Gambino's, Cantena , Salerno and Tieri on the Genovese side, and Carmine Trumanti for the Lucheses. Do you mean bosses in other cites, since all my examples were New Yorkers, or do you mean ones I left out? Perscio did most of the last 50 years of his life in prison, Scarpa (A definite rat) was constantly left alone till the very end. Do you have any source for this fairytale? You know, like the source Orena's lawyer provided showing Persico's cooperation.
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: NYMafia]
#1018518
08/21/21 05:42 PM
08/21/21 05:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
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ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
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The papers look doctored to me. Plus more than a dozen top, top bosses are listed there as well. If he is a rat, then what are you saying? All the rest of them were rats also?
It doesn't make sense. Anything is possible in life. Anything!
But put two and two together and use your heads. Junior spent 50 years in prison. More than that, he beloved son Allie is currently doing life himself. If Persico had been a rat, don't you think he would have made sure he and his son (and his cousins Andy and nephews), didn't get destroyed like that?
Otherwise what did he gain from his so-called' cooperation agreement?
It's a shot in the dark from Orena and his lawyers to get some relief from his sentence. But I've seen those documents and I can tell you that they DO NOT clearly explain or delineate who is, and who isn't, an informer on those pages. And by the way, each CI has their own special code as you know. The same 'exact' code is listed next to each and every name on that list.
So it looks to me as though there was one informer who was providing info on all those named on the pages, Persico included. He had more than one son. And cooperating doesn't give you and your loved ones immunity for committing crimes. It allowed him to stay on top and purge his crime family of his enemies. But then again, you know all this.
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: NYMafia]
#1018520
08/21/21 05:44 PM
08/21/21 05:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
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ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
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The informant number is the same next to each individual. Informants are given unique identifiers. So if all of these guys were informants, would they all be given the same identifier? Or could it be that this particular informant "3461-C-TE" is just giving information on the individuals listed? EXACTLY 1000% percent correct! .....1,000,000% correct. It was 1 single informant (obviously high level) who was able to provide info on each of those named individuals. Period! And Persico was only one of many he had info on. It's clear as a bell on those documents. Why some people try and create sensationalism and run with all these bullshit statements is totally beyond me. (Orena I can understand, he's trying to get out of jail and will BS on anything that he thinks serves his purpose). But the rest of you? Come on now. Stay on track fellas. It's better that way (for all the legit people who truly wanna glean real knowledge of OC) and not BS Says the fantasist who only writes information about mobsters that portrays them in a flattering light and skips over all the things that would make them look bad. Such as rape, crimes against women and children, drug dealing, assaults against innocents et cetera.
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
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Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: Louiebynochi]
#1018521
08/21/21 05:48 PM
08/21/21 05:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
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ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
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David Schoen, representing Orena, delivered the bombshell Brooklyn Federal Court filing — including a 1971 law enforcement document identifying Persico as a member of the FBI’s “Top Echelon Informant Program.†The 50-year-old paperwork was revealed through a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed against the Justice Department.
Schoen said he hesitated to go public with the charge until doing some digging to verify the shocking story.
“Independently of this document, two lawyers who represented Mr. Persico in the past have said that they had solid reason to believe that this information is accurate, as did another cooperating witness who gave examples that he believed proved the point,†Schoen wrote in a Friday email to defense lawyer Anthony DiPietro. “I would never have filed such a document without having taken these steps.â€
In another email, Schoen said he heard from a former Colombo associate declaring “the assertion is 100% right.†The mobster was a cooperating witness who testified against two of Schoen’s clients.
“I met with the DOJ inspector General and two FBI agents. ... All agreed that the document reflected exactly what it has been represented to reflect,†he said. “I avoided filing this document for quite some time because of the seriousness of it and the implications.†Now now Louie, corroborating information from people in the know doesn't mean anything. A wannabe mafia hanger-on and a fan-fiction writer know more than the people who actually spoke with and knew Persico on a formal level.
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
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