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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: majicrat]
#1024516
11/27/21 08:42 AM
11/27/21 08:42 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
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Agreed. By these standards then NOBODY should ever gain a compassionate release.
The guy's as old as Methuselah, has done decades upon decades behind bars, is currently extremely ill and infirm, poses a "danger" to absolutely no-one, the Grim Reaper is closely hovering around his deathbed...and at the end of the day (as you so succinctly stated majicrat) the "alleged" murder conspiracy never even materialized or ever went nowhere. Neither Gotti had a single hair touched on their coiffed heads. So WTF?
And it was a draconian, shot up "to the moon" unfair sentence to begin with. But thats the feds and G sending a statement. Thats all that is!
If his last name was Horowitz, Murray, or Johnson, we wouldn't be having this chat. But "mala fortuna" (in this case at least), his surname Manna ends in a vowel.
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: majicrat]
#1024518
11/27/21 08:53 AM
11/27/21 08:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
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Funny that you bring up Italian immigrants coming to this country with last names ending in a vowel. When my Grandfather came to this country he was told to registrar his surname as ending in a consonant instead of a vowel. Thus our last name ends in an N and not an O as our family surname name was for generations.
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: NYMafia]
#1024529
11/27/21 11:29 AM
11/27/21 11:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 29,784
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 29,784
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Funny that you bring up Italian immigrants coming to this country with last names ending in a vowel. When my Grandfather came to this country he was told to registrar his surname as ending in a consonant instead of a vowel. Thus our last name ends in an N and not an O as our family surname name was for generations. That was a common thing, both as an "accident" by the Irish immigration officers at Ellis Island that didn't understand the spelling of Italian names and fucked em up, and deliberately by some Italians themselves who wanted to blend more easily into American society. That's why the Calabrian Francesco Castiglia took the Irish sounding name Frank Costello.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: majicrat]
#1024530
11/27/21 11:42 AM
11/27/21 11:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 116
Jimmybrown
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 116
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Sometimes i think criminals of mr Manna' s stature, will never get released they make an example of them, crime doesn't pay. Another thing too, some asshole government official or judge wants to make his name more prominent. He'll purposefully negate the persons release and give some bullshit speech to justify it. As we all know the biggest crew is the government with police as their muscle you can't beat that shit. https://youtu.be/o7v4COH6KFI Here's an interesting video involving him
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: Jimmybrown]
#1024531
11/27/21 11:44 AM
11/27/21 11:44 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
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Sometimes i think criminals of mr Manna' s stature, will never get released they make an example of them, crime doesn't pay. Another thing too, some asshole government official or judge wants to make his name more prominent. He'll purposefully negate the persons release and give some bullshit speech to justify it. As we all know the biggest crew is the government with police as their muscle you can't beat that shit. https://youtu.be/o7v4COH6KFI Here's an interesting video involving him JB, you hit Bingo! 1000% correct (on all counts)
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: NYMafia]
#1024536
11/27/21 12:11 PM
11/27/21 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
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Family lore has always been that grandfather dropped the O and that’s how we became the “Roman” family. Not sure that Roman is less Italian than Romano, but solved vowel problem. That was not untypical back then. But Roman can also represent Spanish and several other nationalities as well. Romano? Lol, strictly Italiano As long as you're discussing Italian immigrant name changes, I was told that G in Italian didn't convert to English. Thus the first letter of our Surname was changed to J. Anything factual about this or just another old wive's tale?
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: Friend_of_Henry]
#1024538
11/27/21 12:53 PM
11/27/21 12:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
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Family lore has always been that grandfather dropped the O and that’s how we became the “Roman” family. Not sure that Roman is less Italian than Romano, but solved vowel problem. That was not untypical back then. But Roman can also represent Spanish and several other nationalities as well. Romano? Lol, strictly Italiano As long as you're discussing Italian immigrant name changes, I was told that G in Italian didn't convert to English. Thus the first letter of our Surname was changed to J. Anything factual about this or just another old wive's tale? G is usually pronounced like a J in Italian. Especially when it's the first letter in a name. Hence, a surname like Guiliano would be like a Juliano. - To provide you two more perfect examples of other such letters of the alphabet with the same problem is U, and sometimes the letter I. Thats why Francesco Uale, became Frankie Yale. And why Joseph Iacovelli, became Joseph Yacovelli. The "americani" couldn't pronounce or even understand the spelling of such names.
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: majicrat]
#1024541
11/27/21 01:07 PM
11/27/21 01:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
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Your knowledge of these historical idioms is much admired. Your first example is really close, simply change the O for an N ;-)
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: Zavattoni]
#1024564
11/27/21 02:45 PM
11/27/21 02:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
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I agree; He should have been out 15-20 years ago…
But you do realize; He ordered a “hit” or conspired to kill Donald Trump’s sister; MaryAnne Barry Trump; Prosecutor Micheal Chertoff and also judge; Samuel Alito….
You don’t get away with ordering and conspiring to kill people in the Justice Department…
I do not believe that for one single second. First of all Manna wasn't as stupid guy. He knew he could never even think such a stupid plot, yet alone make it actually happen. And #2 (MOST importantly), he was an adherent to Cosa Nostra, and Chin was his boss. Do you REALLY think that would have even have "thought such stupid things," or had it approved by Chin, AND/OR the Commission?? Of course not! It was bullshit add-on "unsubstantiated" "allegations" by the feds and piled on to help bury him. Period!
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: Zavattoni]
#1024570
11/27/21 03:48 PM
11/27/21 03:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
MafiaStudent
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
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I agree; He should have been out 15-20 years ago…
But you do realize; He ordered a “hit” or conspired to kill Donald Trump’s sister; MaryAnne Barry Trump; Prosecutor Micheal Chertoff and also judge; Samuel Alito….
You don’t get away with ordering and conspiring to kill people in the Justice Department…
There is NO evidence to support that. ZERO. It doesn't exist.
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: NYMafia]
#1024602
11/27/21 11:40 PM
11/27/21 11:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,678
DiLorenzo
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,678
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I agree; He should have been out 15-20 years ago…
But you do realize; He ordered a “hit” or conspired to kill Donald Trump’s sister; MaryAnne Barry Trump; Prosecutor Micheal Chertoff and also judge; Samuel Alito….
You don’t get away with ordering and conspiring to kill people in the Justice Department…
I do not believe that for one single second. First of all Manna wasn't as stupid guy. He knew he could never even think such a stupid plot, yet alone make it actually happen. And #2 (MOST importantly), he was an adherent to Cosa Nostra, and Chin was his boss. Do you REALLY think that would have even have "thought such stupid things," or had it approved by Chin, AND/OR the Commission?? Of course not! It was bullshit add-on "unsubstantiated" "allegations" by the feds and piled on to help bury him. Period! Absolutely right...The Genovese family voted down the alleged plot to kill Rudy, because they knew it would bring the world down on them, but then all of a sudden they wanna kill judges ?? BS, and the government knows it....It shows they're just as dirty as the gangsters are !!
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: majicrat]
#1024670
11/28/21 04:36 PM
11/28/21 04:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 22
TSNYC
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 22
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From trial coverage:
An electronic ''bug'' placed in the former Casella's restaurant in Hoboken, which the Government said was a meeting place for Mr. Manna and his group, turned up a conversation two days after the killing that included this exchange that the Government said was between Frank Daniello, 67 years old, a former Hoboken police officer, and Martin (Motts) Casella, 71, the restaurant owner and Mr. Manna's top lieutenant. Both are co-defendants with the 60-year-old Mr. Manna.
Daniello: Irwin, Irwin Schiff. (unintelligible second voice). The place was jammed; all the people ran out. He was in there with a broad.
Casella: It's a small place though.
Daniello: Bobby picked this kid out.
Casella: It's a small place.
Daniello: It takes guts though to do it like that. This kid is a--.
Casella: Stone killer.
Daniello: He was sitting there with a blond bitch, and they hit him.
In another conversation made three days before the killing, two unidentified men are heard talking in Mr. Casella's presence.
First male: You wanna hit him?
Second male: Irwin Schiff but we'll settle for that. We'll do him good at night. Bobby Manna didn't like CC.
Michael Chertoff, an Assistant United States Attorney, said ''CC'' was a mob code name for Mr. Schiff, based on Construction Coordinators, a New York business in which he held an interest.
….
The plot against John Gotti, said by Federal authorities to head the Gambino family, first came up last Sept. 21 in a conversation among Mr. Manna, Mr. Casella and Mr. Daniello. Mr. Chertoff said the plan was to attack Mr. Gotti near a club he frequented on Woodhaven Boulevard and 101st Avenue in Ozone Park, Queens.
''Wear a disguise,'' Mr. Manna said. ''It's an open place.''
An unidentified man asked: ''Do you know where you'se are going to do this guy?''
''Yeah, on that corner,'' Mr. Casella responded.
''You know, this should be good and fast if it's John Gotti up on the Boulevard and, ah, hundred and one,'' the man said.
The F.B.I. subsequently notified Mr. Gotti of the reported plot, and, according to an Oct. 9 transcript, the Genovese associates learned of the warning.
''Hey, John Gotti knows,'' Mr. Casella said on Oct. 9.
An unidentified man responded, ''John Gotti knows we. . . .''
''That we ordered it?'' another man said.
But the plotting continued, the authorities said. On Jan. 10, Mr. Manna was overheard saying, ''a big hit, John Gotti,'' and then apparently discussing with Mr. DeSciscio and others the selection of a gunman.
Two days later, in a conversation between Mr. Manna and James Napoli, Mr. Manna said: ''Gene Gotti's dead.''
''When are you gonna hit him?'' Mr. Napoli asked.
''Gene Gotti's dead,'' Mr. Manna repeated.
''We're gonna be paying for this, you know, for the rest of our lives,'' Mr. Napoli said.
….
According to cafaro testimony:
Genovese boss Anthony 'Fat Tony' Salerno told him in 1980 that Manna was the new consigliere, Cafaro said. He also told the jury that Vincent 'the Chin' Gigante and Manna ran the family for several months after Salerno suffered a stroke in January 1981. Law enforcement authorities believe Gigante became boss of the Genovese family following Salerno's imprisonment.
Manna approved the killing of Nicholas 'Nat' Masselli, who was shot in the Bronx in August 1982, Cafaro said. Masselli, son of William 'the Butcher' Masselli, had been talking to a special prosecutor investigating former Labor Secretary Raymond Donovan.
…
At his age and given his current health condition, and given the treatment of other similar defendants, wouldn’t be unreasonable to release him. But seems there was ample evidence to convict him and the others.
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Re: Bobby Manna
[Re: TSNYC]
#1024671
11/28/21 04:46 PM
11/28/21 04:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
MafiaStudent
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 701
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From trial coverage:
An electronic ''bug'' placed in the former Casella's restaurant in Hoboken, which the Government said was a meeting place for Mr. Manna and his group, turned up a conversation two days after the killing that included this exchange that the Government said was between Frank Daniello, 67 years old, a former Hoboken police officer, and Martin (Motts) Casella, 71, the restaurant owner and Mr. Manna's top lieutenant. Both are co-defendants with the 60-year-old Mr. Manna.
Daniello: Irwin, Irwin Schiff. (unintelligible second voice). The place was jammed; all the people ran out. He was in there with a broad.
Casella: It's a small place though.
Daniello: Bobby picked this kid out.
Casella: It's a small place.
Daniello: It takes guts though to do it like that. This kid is a--.
Casella: Stone killer.
Daniello: He was sitting there with a blond bitch, and they hit him.
In another conversation made three days before the killing, two unidentified men are heard talking in Mr. Casella's presence.
First male: You wanna hit him?
Second male: Irwin Schiff but we'll settle for that. We'll do him good at night. Bobby Manna didn't like CC.
Michael Chertoff, an Assistant United States Attorney, said ''CC'' was a mob code name for Mr. Schiff, based on Construction Coordinators, a New York business in which he held an interest.
….
The plot against John Gotti, said by Federal authorities to head the Gambino family, first came up last Sept. 21 in a conversation among Mr. Manna, Mr. Casella and Mr. Daniello. Mr. Chertoff said the plan was to attack Mr. Gotti near a club he frequented on Woodhaven Boulevard and 101st Avenue in Ozone Park, Queens.
''Wear a disguise,'' Mr. Manna said. ''It's an open place.''
An unidentified man asked: ''Do you know where you'se are going to do this guy?''
''Yeah, on that corner,'' Mr. Casella responded.
''You know, this should be good and fast if it's John Gotti up on the Boulevard and, ah, hundred and one,'' the man said.
The F.B.I. subsequently notified Mr. Gotti of the reported plot, and, according to an Oct. 9 transcript, the Genovese associates learned of the warning.
''Hey, John Gotti knows,'' Mr. Casella said on Oct. 9.
An unidentified man responded, ''John Gotti knows we. . . .''
''That we ordered it?'' another man said.
But the plotting continued, the authorities said. On Jan. 10, Mr. Manna was overheard saying, ''a big hit, John Gotti,'' and then apparently discussing with Mr. DeSciscio and others the selection of a gunman.
Two days later, in a conversation between Mr. Manna and James Napoli, Mr. Manna said: ''Gene Gotti's dead.''
''When are you gonna hit him?'' Mr. Napoli asked.
''Gene Gotti's dead,'' Mr. Manna repeated.
''We're gonna be paying for this, you know, for the rest of our lives,'' Mr. Napoli said.
….
According to cafaro testimony:
Genovese boss Anthony 'Fat Tony' Salerno told him in 1980 that Manna was the new consigliere, Cafaro said. He also told the jury that Vincent 'the Chin' Gigante and Manna ran the family for several months after Salerno suffered a stroke in January 1981. Law enforcement authorities believe Gigante became boss of the Genovese family following Salerno's imprisonment.
Manna approved the killing of Nicholas 'Nat' Masselli, who was shot in the Bronx in August 1982, Cafaro said. Masselli, son of William 'the Butcher' Masselli, had been talking to a special prosecutor investigating former Labor Secretary Raymond Donovan.
…
At his age and given his current health condition, and given the treatment of other similar defendants, wouldn’t be unreasonable to release him. But seems there was ample evidence to convict him and the others.
This is the government's evidence and information printed in a newspaper. There is other evidence to contradict this from FOIA requests, FBI surveillance logs, tape transcripts and interpretations of transcripts, etc. I'll be writing on it shortly.
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