Offtopic: You know I must be absolutely frustrated with a girl when I don't offer lengthy responses anymore. Oh well.

Comparing Bush to FDR is like comparing pie to cake, and WWII to Iraq like oranges to apples.

Yes, you did, and which question was that?

Among other things.

So hypothetically, he should be allowed to do it again?

You identified a "person." Also, I find it funny that someone calls a 46 chromosomed organism non-human, considering the unique genome it represents.

Again, rationalizing murder.

Prove to me it's not.

Major overhaul.

Ooh! Maybe if I call it two different things, it won't seem nasty.

YOU SUPPORT MURDER.

Regards,
Double-J
Champion for the Unborn

Wow, now this is great stuff.

Nice points, Pat. Keep going. (Thought you could use a little support from your fellow liberals )

Doc

You're going to need a better excuse then that.

Then why is it ok for conservatives to compare Saddam to Hitler?

As you would say, "Go back and look at the post."

That was very descriptive. Glad to know you took time answering that one!

So hypothetically, you think if someone commits a crime once, they'll commit for the rest of their lives?

An abortion doesn't kill a person. It gets rid of a fetus or embryo, which is possessed by the mother.

Tad bit edited.

I support freedom of choice.

-Pat
Champion for the freedoms of this country

I didn't know I had to validate myself to you. Then again, I could always use the excuse that my debate partner didn't know his ass from a...oops. Never mind.

You can compare their records and such, but it's not going to get you anywhere becuase the situations were different.

However, Saddam v. Hitler does have some significant stance, albeit it is oft overused. For instance, both were genocidal dictators, although Hitler was actually trying to improve his nation, while Saddam clearly was so corrupt, he was robbing from his people.


I did. Apparently I'm missing something. Unless you really consider the following a question, considering we've been debating it :p

Removing a genocidal, anti-American dictator who had the potential to attack the United States.

What, maybe we should let another 9/11 happen again? Or according to you, wage unilateral war with N.Korea? But yet you want diplomacy. I can't answer a question if the interrogater doesn't have a firm stance himself.

w00t. What else am I supposed to say? Go into a lengthy description of how they are similar, and then have you change the topic? No thanks. If you're into banging something over and over again, I suggest you get to know your left hand, instead of trying to convince people of your point.


I think your policy of reform is incredibly ideological, and would, if enacted, result in higher crime and increased lawlessness.

It kills a human. Putting a generic name of "fetus" or "embryo" does not change it's genetics - it's a growing human baby. Possessed by the mother? So because I own a dog, I have the right to kill it?

Explain to me how you can rationalize a 46 chromosomed organism, that is living, and carrying out normal cell functions, and wholly sentient, is NOT a human being/person.

Major overhaul.


The choice is murder or life. I don't see many more arguments that are more black or white, yet it is morally reprehensible how people like yourself justify it.

Champion for economic failure, murder, and crime.

Regards,
Double-J

This debate gets better and better :yawn:

Well, at least you can't say there weren't too clearly defined sides to the issue.

If you can compare Hitler to Saddam, I can compare World War II and the Iraq War.

Hitler killed over 12 million people in camps, let alone the millions upon millions of soldiers and citizens who died. The US has killed more civilians in Iraq then Saddam did while committing genocide.

Doesn't Kim Jong Il have an equal potential to attack the US?

Look, Saddam didn't attack us. Bin Laden and Al Quaeda did, which is why I support 100 % going into Afghanistan. I don't support the way it's being handled. Saddam had no part of 9/11. If Bush all of a sudden had to pick between Iraq, Iran, or North Korea to go to war with, it should've been either:
A.) North Korea
B.) No war at all.

Yes or no: If someone committs a crime once, they'll committ it again.

A dog isn't part of a woman's body.

If it's not out of the womb, it's not a human being/person. As I said, they're an embryo and then develop into a fetus.

Tad bit edited.

The choice isn't murder or life. The choice is a freedom that each pregnant woman in American has. -Pat

Pat have you learned NOTHING from bugs bunny.


you should have said Major Overhaul and then Double-J would have said tad bit edited - end of discussion lol

You can, but that doesn't mean it's terribly relevant. Knock yourself out.

Again, like I said in the other post - I don't think democracy, in the long run will work. However, I don't think it would've been responsible or logical to whack Saddam and his sons, and appoint another leader that would have no clout with the people. Maybe if the international community wouldn't be such a bunch of p*ssies, they would come to the table and encourage the elections and we can pull out of there asap.

Yes. But you're saying that we should've continued diplomacy with Saddam but also go after Kim Jong Il?

I haven't said Saddam was involved in 9/11, though I have no doubts in my mind he was connected one way or another, either with Al Queda, or some other monetary contribution.

Again, I don't understand why you still feel the need to go into N.Korea while we're still using diplomacy (btw why have you eliminated Sudan from your argument?)


I'd say very/highly likely. If your system was in enacted, I think it would be even more likely.

But it is a living organism.

That makes sense. So I guess it's not a gun until you open the package and shoot it? Or it's not a condom until you stick it on your dick?

The stance of abortionists is so absolutely repugnant, I'm surprised that they have any morals at all. As a people, when we have condoned the death of our own, is a sad era.

You can take any biological name you choose, I know them all. Zygote, feel free to debate that as well.

The fact remains that it is a 46 chromosomed being that has a unique genetic code, carries out life functions, grows, and is wholly sentient. The argument that it "isn't human" has very little, if any, scientific or logical backbone, which is why I find it very disturbing people that people accept this putrid rationalization of murder.

Major overhaul.

Yes, "freedom" for a woman of bearing a child, and unwarrented, rationalized murder for an innocent, sentient being.

Regards,
Double-J

Those elections that are suppposed to be in January, right?

We shouldn't have done ANYTHING with Saddam. He wasn't a threat.

Not a chance in hell.

Because the UN (without the US) helped Sudan and Sudan rebels sign a peace treaty.

Then you want someone who committs a crime once to be locked up for life?

..that cannot live on its' own; therefore it's not a human being/person, nor is it really living. No mother and it's not there.

Not murder, abortion.

Tad bit edited.

Not murder, abortion. -Pat

I don't see what's so funny (other than you apparently think you have 20/20 foresight)...again, clearly, don't you agree a leader the Iraqi people would decide would be infinitely more legitimate than a US appointed leader (not counting the current interim leader).


If genocide is wrong in Sudan, and we should go in, according to you...then why shouldn't we have stopped Saddam?

Again, your hindsight is spectacular, you'd make a great Monday Morning Quarterback - intelligence pointed to Saddam having WMD's, against UN regulations, and he is a known enemy of the United States, and intelligence suggested he'd use them against the US.

I don't see how, if that information is presented to you, in retrospect with 9/11, you can just "pass it by."

Thanks, Ms. Cleo. Since you know all. There is no international terror networks. Silly me.


A tad too late for the corpses, eh? And how is it being enforced?

As aforementioned, we're discussing your proposed system, not the current system. If we use those constraints, sure, I think felons, depending on the nature, should be removed from society.

:rolleyes:

Did you ever pick up a biology book?

Really? So test tube baby's don't exist until implanted? So we're putting something that "doesn't exist" into a surrogate womb?

Again, the argument of a 1000 holes is clearly present from the Pro-Choice side.

Oh, yeah..." "

Rationalize it again, Pat. It's murder. It's murder. I'm sure it makes you feel better because it's not saying murder, right? It's "abortion," as if it's some lovely procedure that doesn't harm anyone...

Tell me this, if it doesn't affect a human - what happens if a woman takes an abortion pill, and the "thing" (as you seem to want to classify it) isn't removed (or, realisticaly, is killed), and the "thing" magically transforms into a child when shot out of the womb...if it has defects and it's missing arms and legs and is severely retarded, we can't say it was because of cellular damage to the baby, because after all, it wasn't a baby until it popped out of the womb. :rolleyes:

Major overhaul.

May God have mercy on your soul. I know I wouldn't.

Regards,
Double-J

I was laughing at the fact that you think Iraq will be a democracy when all of our troops are out and that you think the elections will be in January.

Saddam committed genocide in 1986 (3 years after he shook hands with Rumsfeld ). We already fought him in the first Gulf War.

Same thing for Kim Jong Il and North Korea. What a coincidence.

How did he pass by the intelligence saying that Osama wanted to hi-jack planes in the US?

It's being enforced by the UN, Sudan officials, and the leader of Sudan's liberation group.

Forever?

Tad bit edited.

As far as your echoing statements on abortion: Your words will not change my opinion. I, like the majority of America, am pro-choice. I think it's pretty bad that you're pretty much telling me that I'm going to hell too. I don't see anything about abortion in the bible. -Pat

care to back that up with a poll or statement of some kind.

I have yet to find a poll anywhere saying the majority of America is Pro-Choice.


Here is a zogby poll:

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=6982

This is absolutely false. Saddam murdered far more Iraqi civilians than the US has killed. Now, where was your source for this, and I hope you aren't referring to the terrorist insurgents as civilians.

I do? When did I say that? I've said before, I don't think democracy will work in the long term.

I was pointing out how a leader chosen by the people of Iraq would be more legitimate in their minds than any US appointed leader, regardless of his intentions.

So he acts out genocide after his initial US connections...we go in, and decimate him in the Gulf War...yes, it was a mistake not taking him out, sure...but I don't see your point.

You want to wage war with Sudanese rebels when we're already on a two-front war, the point I've been making all along - it's logistically foolhardy.

And we're using your blessed diplomacy and the UN!!!! You're side of the table is the one bitching how we should've let the UN do it's job, and continued diplomacy...

How on one hand can you say diplomacy for Iraq but unilateral war against North Korea on the other? I mean, even you say they are the same. Waging unilateral war against North Korea won't bring the international community in, sans for South Korean support. It would be another example of the US being "big, bad world policeman," and since you take the international community in such high regard, you wouldn't want to upset them, would you?

Gee...I don't know...

It does sound a tad unreasonable if you're thinking pre-9/11...considering the last major attack on the United States was conventional...intelligence that says planes will be flying into US buildings sounds rather ridiculous. :rolleyes:




I think the punishment should fit the crime; maybe go back to a more Hammurabi-esque penal system.

Major overhaul.

1.) As someone has already stated, show me how the majority of America is pro-choice.

2.) I think it's pretty bad you support murder.

3.) Nothing in the bible about abortion?

THE SIXTH COMMANDMENT
THOU SHALT NOT KILL

Have a nice day.
Double-J

And I was laughing at the fact you think elections will be in January.

We ended genocide in the Gulf War. There was no reason to go to war with Iraq again.

We would have much more support against North Korea then we do in Iraq.

A guy who blows up buildings and now wants to hi jack planes to crash into buildings sounds unreasonable?

Forever or not forever? A guy rapes someone and it's his first offense. How long should he be put away?

Tad bit edited.

I support freedom of choice. There's nothing in the bible about abortion. Murder, yes. Abortion, no. If you think abortion is murder, then I understand your point, but a lot of people don't believe that. It's not murder if it's in the woman. -Pat

That's funny that we would like to let the people decide, eh?

We did? Goodness me, what about all the rape rooms, torture chambers, et al that have been found in Fallujah? Tell the Kurds that life has been great since we beat Saddam in the Gulf War. They'd probably smack you in the face.

Clearly you don't understand European politics.

As I said - we're talking pre-9/11 here. Conventional v. unconventional, and essentially, irrational and unattainable (unfortunately, it was).

And I said we should have a Hammurabi-esque code. Why not cut off his dick? That would solve the problem, he'd be free to go back into society.


Major overhaul. Since we've said this about a bajillion times, I'd like to know how you figure the current system is working, or will still be working when we will need it.


Freedom from pregnancy and responsibility for the "mother," and death for an innocent life.

I didn't realize the argument couldn't be de facto.

Jesus didn't say anything about nuclear weapons, or suicide bombers either, but does that mean they aren't wrong?

:rolleyes:

I don't think abortion is murder, I know it is.

"Alot of people?" Before you said it was the majority. Which is it?

It's not murder if it's in the woman? Now we're going into logistics? Before it wasn't murder because it isn't a person, now, it's not because it's in the woman.

So explain to me then why if a pregnant woman is killed, it's a double homicide, if there isn't anything in there worthwhile anyways? Please explain that to me.

You need to either a.) get yourself to church or b.) get a grip on reality that this is a brutal and abhorrent procedure, regardless of your religious affiliation, that destroys a human life.

Regards,
Double-J

It's funny you think the elections will happen.

Yes.

Why is it our obligation to help those people, but not the people of Sudan?

Yeh, I saw that. What's your point? Osama blew up the WTC in the early 90's. Now we get a document saying he wants to hi jack planes to run into buildings. Does that sound unreasonable?

So much for having a debate about that. :rolleyes:

Tad bit edited. I gave you the stats a couple of weeks about the births per generation.

Now you do realize.

It isn't a person when it's in the woman. It's an embryo and then a fetus.

Why would I let my religion get involved with politics? You're not supposed to, which is why I don't. You better watch it, DJ. I might have to send you south to Jesusland.

I think it's funny how outburst you are on me being pro-choice. I'd like to see if you say the same thing to every pro-choice person. -Pat

I resent that, as I have relatives from the South, and "Jesusland" makes it sound like that region that strongly worships Jesus Christ is a bad thing.

And I'll say again, as I've said before - I don't think democracy will work in Iraq. What aren't you getting?

If so, why do you bother to refute my next point? :rolleyes:


Because according to intelligence, Saddam was a threat. Why didn't other nations go after Sudan?

He "blew it up?" On a much more minor scale compared to the 2001 version.

Again, in the context I said, yes. It was wholly unconventional and unprecedented at that point.

Glad you see it my way.

I also think that thugs are bad, btw.

A BPG rate? Wow. That definitely proves SS is working. When people who pay into the system never get a dime, and people who never pay into the system live off of it, I think the system is dysfunctional. I have neighbors to prove this - real life examples, instead of random facts pulled from a website.


Again, sarcasm. Do you even know what de facto means? :p


Then why does a child that dies before birth receive a funeral? Why do parents bother to grieve, if it wasn't a person in the first place?

1.) When politics legalizes a morally wrong procedure, that violates both ethnics and religion, I see no problem with using it in an arguement.

2.) You're not supposed to? Like I could give a flying fuck. As I tell people @ Univ, political correctness goes out the window with me.

3.) Jesusland? w00t. You are clever. Mocking my religion? I wonder if that could be construed as a TOS violation.


I think it's funny (in a morally sick, depraved way) that you rationalize murder.

Also - as I said before - I don't give a fuck. If you feel the need to tell me how abortion is right, or any issue, and I vehemently disagree - the gloves are off. I've done it before @ Univ, and probably will do it again, as I've done here.

Regards,
Double-J

---

BTW, I also wanted your input - since you don't feel life exists unless it is wholly independant...why don't you describe to me exactly why we classify parasites and symbiotic relationships with living organisms?

And I'll sya again, as I've said before - I think it's funny that everyone thinks elections will take place. What aren't you getting?

According to intelligence, Kim Jong Il is a threat. I don't want to GO AFTER Sudan. There's nothing wrong with their government. I don't know why you and Baggins have the idea that I want to send our troops to fight Sudan. I want money and troops sent to fight the rebels and HELP Sudan.

And what about the bombings of the USS Cole and the embassies overseas?

I don't see it your way. You're just to immature to discuss the topic, as you demonstrated for us.

About damn time you agree.

Really? Um, that's great. My grandmother gets her money from social security and she worked her whole life. It's obviously working for her, which is why SS should only be a tad bit edited.

The fact. :rolleyes:

Because the person carrying the baby didn't intend to have an abortion; therefore, they thought of it as a child.

Hmmm. Well, did you know that our relgion is also against birth control? I guess you're all for that though, right? How about the MAP? Is that ok too? :rolleyes:

Correct.

As much as I'd love to take credit for it, I can't.

-Pat

The point of your argument, if it even exists.

1.) M'kay. And we're trying to use diplomacy instead of all out, balls-to-the-wall unilateral war.

2.) You don't know why we have the idea? Because you've said it before in other discussions about Sudan, specifically talking about sending US troops in Sudan.

Basically, this is why nearly every time you bring it up, I talk about logistics of a proposed three front war.

3.) Money and Troops? Again, you answer your own question about troops. As far as money, I thought you were concerned about the skyrocketing deficit, and the differentiation between the poor and the rich.

But I guess if you think Social Security and Medicare only need "slight fixes," then you can find that idea fiscally relevant.

Again, all conventional. 9/11 was anything but conventional.

I'm immature? I think that's an insult.

Actually, I find it insulting I'm even debating this with you - someone who thinks everyone but murderes can be magically reformed without jail time, in a rehab clinic or something of that sort.




That's nice. What about the millions for whom it doesn't work for? Like my grandfather, God rest his soul. Fucking WW II vet, died of cancer in 1992, made it past the SS age, but didn't get any check. Nothing.

Isn't that nice?

Don't try your fierce latin skills, I took four years of the shit, I should know.

De Facto (according to Dictionary.com)

Main Entry: de facto
Function: adjective
1 : ACTUAL; especially : being such in effect though not formally recognized —see also de facto segregation at SEGREGATION
2 : exercising power as if legally constituted or authorized —compare DE JURE

Quote:

Because the person carrying the baby didn't intend to have an abortion; therefore, they thought of it as a child.

So now it's how you think of it?!? My goodness, your argument gets more hilarious by the minute.

"I don't think of it as a child, so I can kill my three year old. Little Johnny was a prick anyways."

:rolleyes:

Quote:

Hmmm. Well, did you know that our relgion is also against birth control? I guess you're all for that though, right? How about the MAP? Is that ok too?

Because I utilize religion in my argument against abortion doesn't mean I agree with the Catholic church on all things. There is a difference between Catholicism and the actual teachings of Christ and the bible - it's an interpretation.

So again, you're argument is moot.

Quote:

Correct.

According to who's rules? :rolleyes:

Quote:

As much as I'd love to take credit for it, I can't.

Funny, that's how I think you formulate most of your opinions in the first place. :p

Regards,
Double-J

Good grief Double J, & Patrick are still going at it?

May I say I just love to sit back and watch the 2 of you argue back and forth.

Reminds me next time I'll grab myself a and some popcorn.

Diplomacy which will fail just like us trying to make Iraq into a democracy.

DJ--Honestly, why would I want to go to war against the country of Sudan? Think about that. There country has done nothing. They're being attacked by rebels.

Which is why we need to shift the money that is being planned on being spent in Iraq, to either Sudan or our economy. $225 billion is a tad too much.

Ok, so if you got documents (pre 9/11) saying that Bin Laden wanted to hi jack planes and crash them into sky scrapers, you wouldn't even put out any type of warnings?

Sorry.

If they grew up in a rough enviroment, then yes, they have a chance of being rehabilitated.

What about the millions for whom it does work for?

Little Johnny isn't in the womb anymore, is he?

Our religion states that we're to be against abortion, birth control, and gay marriage. You're against abortion and gay marriage. Why not birth control? -Pat

i suppose the point of this thread is Anti Bush? well if you voted that is great, he got re-elected and is back in office again. Who knows if things will change? All i know is it has been the most controversial election in a long long time! I have not seen so many young people including myself at the polls getting their votes on. However it was really biased and alot of individuals felt pressured to vote one way or the other...or just not to vote at all. As an active duty military member I hope during Bush's stint he accomplishes what he set us all out to do lest we lose more of our comrades or sons/daughters to yet another war we have no right involving ourselves in.

Honestly civilians who curse Bush and his choice to go to war with terrorism should take a step back and look at those photo's once again of 9/11 and the WTC. I saw Mike Moore's film F9/11 and I was disgusted how unpatriotic this man was who never once served his country. Elections over, I think the point is everyone became passionate about what they believed in and that is a start.

Contradiction #1: Pat support Europe and the United Nations who fully believe in diplomacy. Yet he feels diplomacy won't work, so we should go to war with everybody. Yet somehow he thinks that going against North Korea will bring us international support?

So you want to war with the rebels then, I'm assuming.


Yes, shift the money from our troops...Contradiction #2: Pat says the War on Iraq will fail, but clearly thinks we can "win" while diverting funds away from the troops. He also thinks we could solve poverty in the same way.

Don't think for a second the intelligence was just ignored; but again, I'm talking relevance here. Of course, now, we would totally agree that we should take that kind of thing extremely seriously.

But before 9/11, we had never dealt with two things: 1.) Muslim suicide bombers 2.) an unconventional terrorist attack.

No one wants to see your self-portrait.

Really? If they grew up in a "rough environment" (which, for the sake of the argument, you should define), the are most likely prejudiced towards crime already; ingrained in their attitudes and actions.

What about the millions and millions for whom it doesn't work for (who I'm sure outnumber those for whom it works for).

BTW, if the social security system is working so well, then why are these statements so true?

Kinda hard to argue your point when it comes straight from the horses mouth, eh?

Yes! So I can kill him now and be clear of conscious! Because we all know, organisms that can't survive on their own aren't living (discounting the bacteria in your intestines, viruses that make you sick, and millions of other symbiotic and/or parasitic limited cell organisms, including a developing human being.) :rolleyes:

Well since you're so gung ho for gay marriage and abortion, I could ask you the same question - how can you call yourself a Catholic if you support those things?

Why don't I agree with the Catholic church on birth control? Because in some ways, I do understand their point. Birth Control is being used today in an era and society that encourages practically anonymous promiscuity. That being said, I don't see anything wrong with a husband and wife using condoms or the pill, and I'd rather see Pat "wrap it up" than to have little baby Slim Shady impersonators running around Reading, PA.

Regards,
Double-J

Welcome to the boards, MissFifi.

BTW, from the bottom of my heart, I thank you and commend you for your military service and protecting the freedoms and priviledges we enjoy in this country and too often take for granted. I also love the fact that an active serviceman doesn't appreciate Michael Moore and his anti-Bush (essentially anti-American) message, although some members on this board would try to convince you otherwise.

Regards,
Double-J

Originally posted by Double-J:

As I said, I don't want war with anyone unless it's absolutely needed. I said I'd rather go to war with Iraq over North Korea if I was forced to pick one.

Damn right. Why did you guys think I wanted war against the country?

The war in Iraq will fail to bring democracy to the country after we leave. Poverty will never be solved,but that $225 billion certainly wouldn't hurt.

That's my point DJ. I think this intelligence was ignored. Why did it take until we were attacked to make a terror level chart or take extra measures?

Welcome to the Middle East... :p

Rough enviroment: Mom or Dad left them and one of their parents was a drug abuser. They were forced to get a job and needed to support their family. They're unable to afford college. They turn to drug dealing and various other things. I think you have my point of view wrong here. I don't think big time drug dealers (how about Tony Montana as an example) should get looked upon. I think people just trying to savage money to live deserve more then one chance. Unfortunately, it's the other way around in our society.

Which is why it needs to be a tad bit edited.

Um. Do you realize that these women have to live with their descision the rest of their life? I highly, highly doubt that it gets off their mind.

Because I don't allow my religion to impact my beliefs on the public and society. My religion is my business and my religion only comes into effect when it isn't effecting anyone else but me.

So that means you supported John Kerry on promoting contraception among teens, rather then Bush's method of promoting abstinence among teens? -Pat

Originally posted by Missfifilopez:


What does being against Bush have to do with 'looking back?' If Saddam had anything to do with 9/11, then I'd understand your point. I support Bush 100 % on going into Afghanistan, though I think he's ignoring the situation since only 11,000 troops remain.

Michael Moore is patriotic and loves his country. He just loathes our government. I feel the same. Neither one of us have served either. Am I unpatriotic too?

And please, no one respond to me and say that I'm anti-US and don't support our troops. That's not true. I support our troops. I just don't support our government. -Pat

You're anti-US and don't support our troops. :p :p :p

Saddam was only one terrorist among others who was in power and has been taken down. Saddam during his reign had commited many terrible acts against humanity by terrorizing his people and the only reason they supported him was out of fear that their families as well as themselves would be murdered. That was how he ruled, one less terrorist in power. The fact of the matter is this...the wars over the years have been fought in places thousands of miles away from our homes...they brought the fight to our front yard now we are taking the fight right back into theirs.

If Moore was patriotic he would do more than to make these movies that try to make up the minds of the public instead of what a good filmmaker is supposed to do which is to allow the audience themselves to decide who is the villain and who is the hero. Loathing the government is one thing but to outwardly say that you are against your government and not do anything about such feelings IS wrong. I meet many people daily who ask me why do i volunteer to deploy, to serve my country, to give my life for Mad Man President Bush. And i say..."If i don't, who will?"

Don't get me wrong, just because you haven't served in the armed services doesn't mean you aren't patriotic or that you don't love your country. There are different levels of patriotism and loyalty to one's country. Many civilian children, wives, husbands of the one's i serve with wait home every day wondering whether they will see their loved one come home again. THat is a service to our country that we appreciate.

I will not say that you are unpatriotic but if you do in fact support your troops the next time you see a man or woman in uniform or have an ID card shake their hand and just say welcome home!