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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Trojan]
#1031086
03/08/22 03:49 AM
03/08/22 03:49 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,525
Lou_Para
Underboss
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Joined: May 2013
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I think Vito's plans for his family were pretty straightforward,
Sonny would eventually become Boss of the illegal side of the business,
Mike would oversee the legitimate activities of the Corleone's,ideally under Tom's tutelage. Public office would, of course, be one of the options that Vito would have supported.
Even though Hagen was not blood,Vito trusted him to serve as Mike's mentor,as we found out when Tom told Mike that he had discussed his future with Vito many times.
Tom would continue to serve as in-house Lawyer/ Consigliere
For Fredo, a low profile,nicely paying career, maybe small rackets (numbers,etc), Mickey Mouse nightclubs,and so forth.
For Connie,cooking, cleaning, and baby production.
Anything is possible,but I wonder how things would have turned out had Vito taken Tom and Sonny's advice on that "Solozzo business"
Last edited by Lou_Para; 03/08/22 03:52 AM.
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Trojan]
#1031130
03/09/22 12:53 AM
03/09/22 12:53 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,525
Lou_Para
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Posts: 1,525
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Michael's Public office would be at-odds with Sonny's illegal side of the business Your point is well taken Evita. I've often wondered what Vito was thinking when it came to "Senator Corleone,Governor Corleone". for Mike. At that level of public service,it would be virtually impossible for Michael to have any plausible deniability concerning the racket side of the Family. Perhaps the plan was to move Sonny into semi-legitimate ventures,i.e. unions,waste management,construction,etc,while letting the rank-and-file soldiers run the "blue collar" side,while collecting a piece without actually getting involved in the day to day operations. Sonny would never have the intellect or temperament to rise above the basic leg-breaker level,so maybe Vito figured,"we'll just keep him as low profile and out of the spotlight as we can". However knowing Sonny,I think it would just be a matter of time before he sucker punched the Mayor. At least,that is my two cents. This is why I love this Board when it comes to the GF trilogy. There are so many nuances,forks in the road,and even rabbit holes to keep us discussing,speculating,thrusting and parrying for another 50 years !
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Lou_Para]
#1031135
03/09/22 03:08 AM
03/09/22 03:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389
Australia
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Exactly! Vito had all these grand plans seemingly “pretty straightforward” “but not quite workable” indeed Sure thing Senator or Governor Corleone and Corleones' illegal side of the business, just cannot coexist! Besides, in conjunction with What did Michael want for Anthony?Extract: That would have made Sonny the head of an ever-diminishing criminal side of the Corleone family, and made him, in effect, Michael's strong-arm protector. It would have set up powerful resentment by Sonny, possibly leading to deadly violence--and an interesting additional GF movie Again, Vito had all these grand plans but no forward-thinking / planning including the family turmoil, it would cause
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Trojan]
#1031136
03/09/22 03:08 AM
03/09/22 03:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389
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Vito was slippin'! Senator or Governor Corleone in his position can't afford to be made to look ridiculous! in conjunction with What did Michael want for Anthony?Extract: I've always believed that, if Vito'd had his way, Michael as Senator or Governor would have worked to legalized gambling at the national or state level, which would have "legitimized" Vito's heritage and vastly enriched the Corleones' coffers( whyMichael moved the family to Nevada anyway) Extract: I don't see him walking away from the rich empire he created through gambling. He had to have a plan for Michael to help transition his empire to legitimacy--and continued wealth Michael advocating law enforcement or “legalized gambling” when - his works to legalized gambling would “vastly enrich the [criminal] Corleones' [his family and his] coffers” Money laundering
- his family still has the “criminal side” [“deadly violence” possession, bookmaking, murder and a lot more!] and nefarious power
- the rich empire his father created through illegal gambling keeps operating and profiteering without any criminal justice
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Capri]
#1031137
03/09/22 03:08 AM
03/09/22 03:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389
Australia
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He angry when Tom told Mike that he had discussed his future with Vito many times Sure thing Capri in the flashback scene at the end of Godfather II Michael rebuked Tom that Tom dared! to map out his future and said "You...talked to my father...about my future?"
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Trojan]
#1031162
03/09/22 02:01 PM
03/09/22 02:01 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
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Posts: 773
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I think it's selling Vito short to assume he didn't foresee a potential conflict between the Family business and his aspirations for Michael.
He gives us clues to his thinking in his comments to both Sollozzo and the Commission about how the traditional Mafia businesses are perceived ("harmless vice" "something most people want") vs. the way drugs are perceived. In fact, I believe his desire for a legitimate future for Michael was one of his main reasons in resisting the drug business.
Vito felt "Senator Corleone. Governor Corleone" was possible for Michael as long as the Family's criminal enterprises staying within the boundaries Vito had set.
I'm not sure I agree with him, but I believe that was his plan.
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#1031170
03/09/22 03:28 PM
03/09/22 03:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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I think it's selling Vito short to assume he didn't foresee a potential conflict between the Family business and his aspirations for Michael.
Vito felt "Senator Corleone. Governor Corleone" was possible for Michael as long as the Family's criminal enterprises staying within the boundaries Vito had set. LW, it would have been possible, in the immediate postwar era, for Michael to have been elected to public office despite his name and his father. He could have established a residence of convenience in Vito's old Little Italy district, where the Corleone name was magic. The FBI wasn't on the Mob's case then, Vito didn't have an arrest record, and few Americans were aware of a "National Syndicate" of organized crime. TV was in its infancy, and "investigative journalism" was almost unknown. I think he'd be a shoo-in for Congress. Getting elected to statewide office (Senator or Governor) would have been more difficult for Michael, but with his father's money and labor muscle, Michael probably could have won. John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in '46, Senate in '52 and Presidency in '60 despite his father's high profile as a stock manipulator, Hitler-appeaser and (some said) having ties to OC.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Turnbull]
#1031191
03/09/22 11:31 PM
03/09/22 11:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,390
Trojan
OP
Underboss
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,390
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I think it's selling Vito short to assume he didn't foresee a potential conflict between the Family business and his aspirations for Michael.
Vito felt "Senator Corleone. Governor Corleone" was possible for Michael as long as the Family's criminal enterprises staying within the boundaries Vito had set. LW, it would have been possible, in the immediate postwar era, for Michael to have been elected to public office despite his name and his father. He could have established a residence of convenience in Vito's old Little Italy district, where the Corleone name was magic. The FBI wasn't on the Mob's case then, Vito didn't have an arrest record, and few Americans were aware of a "National Syndicate" of organized crime. TV was in its infancy, and "investigative journalism" was almost unknown. I think he'd be a shoo-in for Congress. Getting elected to statewide office (Senator or Governor) would have been more difficult for Michael, but with his father's money and labor muscle, Michael probably could have won. John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in '46, Senate in '52 and Presidency in '60 despite his father's high profile as a stock manipulator, Hitler-appeaser and (some said) having ties to OC. Don't know Turnbull the FBI was poking around, at his daughter's wedding, he was splashed across in the Newspapers as the Underworld Chief, Syndicate Big Shot No doubt it would have been possible, with Vito's money, power, influence and the Little Italy district magic, initially, for Michael to have been elected to public office, a shoo-in for Congress. However holding on and getting elected to statewide office (Senator or Governor) I too reckon would have been more difficult, perhaps not quite possible even with his father's money and labor muscle Who didn't know his father is top Mob Boss with still operating and profiteering criminal enterprises
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#1031192
03/09/22 11:37 PM
03/09/22 11:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,390
Trojan
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,390
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I think it's selling Vito short to assume he didn't foresee a potential conflict between the Family business and his aspirations for Michael.
He gives us clues to his thinking in his comments to both Sollozzo and the Commission about how the traditional Mafia businesses are perceived ("harmless vice" "something most people want") vs. the way drugs are perceived. In fact, I believe his desire for a legitimate future for Michael was one of his main reasons in resisting the drug business.
Vito felt "Senator Corleone. Governor Corleone" was possible for Michael as long as the Family's criminal enterprises staying within the boundaries Vito had set.
I'm not sure I agree with him, but I believe that was his plan. How can an elected official's family has criminal enterprises? They have to be without a blemish on their name and background! I reckon, here lies the problem of a potential conflict between the Family business and his aspirations for Michael "Senator Corleone. Governor Corleone" and Corleones' criminal enterprises, just cannot coexist! regardless of the boundaries Vito had set. Vito was slippin'!
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1031193
03/09/22 11:41 PM
03/09/22 11:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,390
Trojan
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,390
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He angry when Tom told Mike that he had discussed his future with Vito many times Sure thing Capri in the flashback scene at the end of Godfather II Michael rebuked Tom that Tom dared! to map out his future and said "You...talked to my father...about my future?" I reckon Tom wasn't getting, how piqued Michael was as even after, he says Mikey, he has high hopes for you. I can't see Tom as Mike's mentor, Mike under Tom's tutelage or Sonny as his kid brother's strong-arm protector I reckon neither is workable
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#1031219
03/11/22 02:14 AM
03/11/22 02:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389
Australia
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I think it's selling Vito short to assume he didn't foresee a potential conflict between the Family business and his aspirations for Michael.
He gives us clues to his thinking in his comments to both Sollozzo and the Commission about how the traditional Mafia businesses are perceived ("harmless vice" "something most people want") vs. the way drugs are perceived. In fact, I believe his desire for a legitimate future for Michael was one of his main reasons in resisting the drug business.
Vito felt "Senator Corleone. Governor Corleone" was possible for Michael as long as the Family's criminal enterprises staying within the boundaries Vito had set.
I'm not sure I agree with him, but I believe that was his plan. Vito in his eagerness for Michael “to be the one to hold the strings” as a pezzonovante seemingly “didn't foresee a potential conflict between the Family business and his aspirations for Michael” Vito's number crunching was off! but I also believe that was his "desire / plan" ie: Vito's belief that Michael's "legitimate future" even "Public office" and "the Family's criminal enterprises" can coexist!
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Trojan]
#1031220
03/11/22 02:14 AM
03/11/22 02:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389
Australia
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How can an elected official's family has criminal enterprises? They have to be without a blemish on their name and background! Now who's being naive, Evita?  all that comedy I am playing with this Sicilian thing! Well if Michael can say, under oath....! Corruption, bribery of politicians not dissimilar to the ones, Vito carries in his pocket or “we'd done it before” brothel patron and "squeezing" Senator Geary is one thing but murderous "criminal enterprises" and nefarious power is not conducive to public figures! In fact can be very harmful and destructive indeed
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Re: Vito's Grand plans
[Re: Lou_Para]
#1031256
03/12/22 01:18 AM
03/12/22 01:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,389
Australia
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Just for purposes of discussion,let's assume that Vito decides to end the Corleone's involvement in any criminal businesses in order to get Mike elected to a major political position. Let us also assume that Sonny isn't killed.
My question is,what happens to Sonny and Fredo? How do they make a living? I can only guess that Vito,Mike.and Tom could manage to set up some legitimate businesses for them,so that they could have a legal income. What about the rest of the Family associates? We didn't really see them in the movies,but the Corleones must have had quite a few members. It's quite possible that they could be absorbed into one of the other Families.,and continue in the rackets.
Any thoughts? Sure thing Lou if “Vito decides to end the Corleone's involvement in any criminal businesses” Difficult not Impossible “to get Mike – who has never been arrested or indicted for any crime whatsoever No proof linking him to any criminal conspiracy - elected to a major political position” And if the Corleones ever need muscle they can always draw the water from Clemenza-Tessio-Family associates' well, discreetly! Obviously their Family is not still called Corleone! The Corleones already had their “legitimate business”! Their Genco Olive Oil Company as their Front All Vito has to do is launder their blood money through Genco Tom “as in-house Lawyer” Carlo could be provided with something important ie: more than a living, in Genco After all Carlo was gonna be Michael's right-hand man! in Nevada As you stated “ Sonny would never have the intellect or temperament to rise above the basic leg-breaker level” loose cannon indeed Lemme think about it -- Oh, well, we'll see -- we'll see! Come on -- We can come up with something in it! for Sonny
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