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Was Neil an informer?
#1033263
04/21/22 07:36 PM
04/21/22 07:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
JackieAprile
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
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There is the fact that there was an expose right after he died that detailed about a decade or two’s cooperation
There’s also the fact that his name is blacked out in informer reports from the 1960s and 1970s. Why black out his name? When the names of others like Carlo, Paul, Joe N. Gallo etc’s names aren’t blacked out
Plus there was a high level informant that did indeed give information on family administration level meetings.
In addition there were two Bergin Club sources - Willie Boy was one. The other has never been outed.
This informer had to at the very least be a Captain. Or higher than a Captain considering he gave info on meetings with the Boss and Capos.
I know Neil is considered “Mr LCN” because he was a “badass” but would anyone have guessed Greg Scarpa Sr was an informant if he hadn’t been outed posthumously? Scarpa was just as big a “badass” as Neil and still gave info.
Last edited by JackieAprile; 04/21/22 07:37 PM.
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: JackieAprile]
#1033269
04/21/22 10:58 PM
04/21/22 10:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,529 Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, NYC
BensonHURST
Bensonhurst
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Bensonhurst
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,529
Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, NYC
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There is the fact that there was an expose right after he died that detailed about a decade or two’s cooperation
There’s also the fact that his name is blacked out in informer reports from the 1960s and 1970s. Why black out his name? When the names of others like Carlo, Paul, Joe N. Gallo etc’s names aren’t blacked out
Plus there was a high level informant that did indeed give information on family administration level meetings.
In addition there were two Bergin Club sources - Willie Boy was one. The other has never been outed.
This informer had to at the very least be a Captain. Or higher than a Captain considering he gave info on meetings with the Boss and Capos.
I know Neil is considered “Mr LCN” because he was a “badass” but would anyone have guessed Greg Scarpa Sr was an informant if he hadn’t been outed posthumously? Scarpa was just as big a “badass” as Neil and still gave info.
Scarpa- It was known that he had a close relationship with L.E. there were rumblings in the neighborhood about him being bad because he never got pinched. There was an incident that I read about that someone called him a rat and he found out about and he called him into his club and killed him on the spot. https://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/index.htmlThats the website that lists alot of informers from the 60's and 70's
Last edited by BensonHURST; 04/22/22 02:04 AM.
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: BensonHURST]
#1033278
04/22/22 03:46 AM
04/22/22 03:46 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
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There is the fact that there was an expose right after he died that detailed about a decade or two’s cooperation
There’s also the fact that his name is blacked out in informer reports from the 1960s and 1970s. Why black out his name? When the names of others like Carlo, Paul, Joe N. Gallo etc’s names aren’t blacked out
Plus there was a high level informant that did indeed give information on family administration level meetings.
In addition there were two Bergin Club sources - Willie Boy was one. The other has never been outed.
This informer had to at the very least be a Captain. Or higher than a Captain considering he gave info on meetings with the Boss and Capos.
I know Neil is considered “Mr LCN” because he was a “badass” but would anyone have guessed Greg Scarpa Sr was an informant if he hadn’t been outed posthumously? Scarpa was just as big a “badass” as Neil and still gave info.
Scarpa- It was known that he had a close relationship with L.E. there were rumblings in the neighborhood about him being bad because he never got pinched. There was an incident that I read about that someone called him a rat and he found out about and he called him into his club and killed him on the spot. https://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/index.htmlThats the website that lists alot of informers from the 60's and 70's I agree. That's an interesting site with lots of good thought provoking info about various fellas across the country who mostly likely 'opened up' over the years.
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: Liggio]
#1033283
04/22/22 07:13 AM
04/22/22 07:13 AM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
JackieAprile
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
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Jackie if you are genuinely curious and not just trying to rain on everyone's parade, my apologies. But it is true, every few months or so someone's trying to discredit another long deceased mobster known more than anything for being stand-up. But who really knows, maybe most of these guys who managed to die in bed really were rats. Not trying to discredit anyone, but it’s clear SOMEONE at a high fuckin level was a rat in the Gambinos in the 60s and 70s. Someone who was at administration level meetings. Add in the fact that Bergin had two informants, one of which has never been revealed. Add to this that Neil’s name is blacked out in informer reports, where other guys’ names aren’t. I’m inclined to believe that either Neil, Lombardozzi, or another Capo was feeding the Feds info in this period. We can rule out it being a low level guy. Someone low level wouldn’t have been able to report in detail on meetings regarding for example the period of the lead up to Paul’s election in 76 or his promotion to Acting Boss in 67. Those two reports alone are highly detailed and suggest someone who was at those meetings. Add also into this the expose from Dec 1985 that outed Neil as an informer of 20 years. It’s possible he gave the Feds stuff. Just because he was a tough guy doesn’t mean he couldn’t have also talked. He had a lot of reasons to be dissatisfied with LCN. His mentor Tommy Rava was clipped and he had to sit by and deal with it. He served two Bosses (Carlo and Paul) who disregarded traditional LCN rules. He was passed over. That’s enough to disillusion someone.
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: hoodlum]
#1033312
04/22/22 08:10 PM
04/22/22 08:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,697 n.e.philly
hoodlum
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,697
n.e.philly
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Full of grammatical errors but well said? I had a hard time making out that heap of shit he wrote, I could've done better in first grade. O.K....1 grammar error after the word why...how dare u talk 2 a catholic spelling bee champion on a board that knows u r nothing but a someone looking 4 a Jizzmatick result...& ..yes.. I did say that word..F...Y...! And leave J CRUSHER out of this u fucknut.
I didn't want to leave blood on your carpet...
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: Liggio]
#1033317
04/22/22 09:01 PM
04/22/22 09:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
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Full of grammatical errors but well said? I had a hard time making out that heap of shit he wrote, I could've done better in first grade. Liggio, what sick pleasure could you possibly get by throwing insults at another poster for no reason at all? He didn't insult you. He didn't start a beef with you. What IS your problem here? Is this how you get your cheap thrills? Like the old saying goes, "If you don't have something nice to say to someone, then you're better off saying nothing at all." I suggest you man up, act mature, or at least try and act mature or fake it if you have to, and take that sage advice ok!!
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1033319
04/22/22 09:03 PM
04/22/22 09:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,099
JCrusher
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,099
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Full of grammatical errors but well said? I had a hard time making out that heap of shit he wrote, I could've done better in first grade. Liggio, what sick pleasure could you possibly get by throwing insults at another poster for no reason at all? He didn't insult you. He didn't start a beef with you. What IS your problem here? Is this how you get your cheap thrills? Like the old saying goes, "If you don't have something nice to say to someone, then you're better off saying nothing at all." I suggest you man up, act mature, or at least try and act mature or fake it if you have to, and take that sage advice ok!! . Agreed!
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: JackieAprile]
#1033323
04/22/22 09:51 PM
04/22/22 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
JackieAprile
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
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Back on point.
If Neil talked, it doesn’t discredit him. Greg Scarpa was still a tough guy, still someone who I wouldn’t want to mess with, and he talked a lot
I respect Neil Dellacroce, but let’s be honest - a lot of guys talked to the Feds in the 1960s. Hell, Carlo basically set up Vito Genovese on a drug rap. Lucky worked with the US government on the ports. Anthony Anastasia informed. Bill Bonnano did. Joe Bonnano wrote a goddamn book detailing a ton. Being an old timer, being a tough guy, these things don’t mean someone didn’t talk.
Look at what’s his name, in Vegas. The guy Casino’s based off. Lefty Rosenthal. He was an informant for years, and we only just learned it a few years ago
I’m not a supporter of ratting for myself. I would not rat. But Neil Dellacroce could’ve - and he’d still be the same tough guy we know him as.
In my opinion, giving this or that once in a while is different from taking the witness stand, as well. Which he never did.
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: JackieAprile]
#1033327
04/22/22 10:03 PM
04/22/22 10:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,779
jace
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,779
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Back on point.
If Neil talked, it doesn’t discredit him. Greg Scarpa was still a tough guy, still someone who I wouldn’t want to mess with, and he talked a lot
I respect Neil Dellacroce, but let’s be honest - a lot of guys talked to the Feds in the 1960s. Hell, Carlo basically set up Vito Genovese on a drug rap. Lucky worked with the US government on the ports. Anthony Anastasia informed. Bill Bonnano did. Joe Bonnano wrote a goddamn book detailing a ton. Being an old timer, being a tough guy, these things don’t mean someone didn’t talk.
Look at what’s his name, in Vegas. The guy Casino’s based off. Lefty Rosenthal. He was an informant for years, and we only just learned it a few years ago
I’m not a supporter of ratting for myself. I would not rat. But Neil Dellacroce could’ve - and he’d still be the same tough guy we know him as.
In my opinion, giving this or that once in a while is different from taking the witness stand, as well. Which he never did. I have to disagree, if he talked it would badly discredit him, which is why they leaked the fake story out. Lucky working on ht sports was not ratting, I think the mob was fully aware. Lefty Rosenthal may have ratted. Anastasia's brother may have spoken after his brother's death. As for the Gambino framing Genovese story, I don't think anyone took that seriously. Rats are protected, especially back then, such as Greg Scarpa. Even when they were being forced to reveal he was a rat the FBI tried to cover for Scarpa. When mobster has a story leaked on him that he was a rat, it is out of prosecutors hate for the person for not ratting.
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: jace]
#1033331
04/23/22 02:40 AM
04/23/22 02:40 AM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,697 n.e.philly
hoodlum
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,697
n.e.philly
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Back on point.
If Neil talked, it doesn’t discredit him. Greg Scarpa was still a tough guy, still someone who I wouldn’t want to mess with, and he talked a lot
I respect Neil Dellacroce, but let’s be honest - a lot of guys talked to the Feds in the 1960s. Hell, Carlo basically set up Vito Genovese on a drug rap. Lucky worked with the US government on the ports. Anthony Anastasia informed. Bill Bonnano did. Joe Bonnano wrote a goddamn book detailing a ton. Being an old timer, being a tough guy, these things don’t mean someone didn’t talk.
Look at what’s his name, in Vegas. The guy Casino’s based off. Lefty Rosenthal. He was an informant for years, and we only just learned it a few years ago
I’m not a supporter of ratting for myself. I would not rat. But Neil Dellacroce could’ve - and he’d still be the same tough guy we know him as.
In my opinion, giving this or that once in a while is different from taking the witness stand, as well. Which he never did. I have to disagree, if he talked it would badly discredit him, which is why they leaked the fake story out. Lucky working on ht sports was not ratting, I think the mob was fully aware. Lefty Rosenthal may have ratted. Anastasia's brother may have spoken after his brother's death. As for the Gambino framing Genovese story, I don't think anyone took that seriously. Rats are protected, especially back then, such as Greg Scarpa. Even when they were being forced to reveal he was a rat the FBI tried to cover for Scarpa. When mobster has a story leaked on him that he was a rat, it is out of prosecutors hate for the person for not ratting. Agreed...Jace, when that asswipe Lynn Dellveccio (not sure if i;m spelling that right) gave (basically) Scarpa the ok 2 kill..or 4 that matter, confidential info as 2 where or whom would be, that pretty much sums up how low the law will go...lol...
I didn't want to leave blood on your carpet...
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: JackieAprile]
#1033332
04/23/22 02:43 AM
04/23/22 02:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815
Larry's Bar
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No, Dellacroce was not an informant. If he was a lot of people would have been arrested, also Big Paul would not have been on the street as long as he had. Gambino, they were banking everything on deportation, and that did not happen. Redacted names can also mean there is an on going investigation and they do not want information leaked out. The high up that was giving up information was Carmine Lombardozzi. There are people out there trying to discredit that, and pointing fingers at others so their idol does not get diminished. All evidence points to Lombardozzi giving up information. The Dellacroce is an informant is a tool they use to tickle the wire, which was useful in that scenario as they were able to identify 6 or 7 other capos in the Gambino family at the current time, countless others in the other families across the nation, and I believe at least one or two people in the Genovese, not to mention getting the ranks more accurate, even to the administration level. Dellacroce was Gambinos ace is unity the Gambino family, and was given a lot of leeway in the family, where it would not make sense for Dellacroce to turn informant. If he was an informant at all, it would have to be during the Anastasia years and he was informing to Anastasia rivals and other groups in the Gambino family, not to LE.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: JackieAprile]
#1033334
04/23/22 02:59 AM
04/23/22 02:59 AM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
JackieAprile
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
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Here’s a question
With Lombardozzi an informer (A longtime Capo), how is it the Feds didn’t really begin to intensify their scrutiny into Big Paul until 1983?
It was known to the Feds that he had been running things since February 1967. He was the day to day Boss from February 1967 onward, and then became the official Boss in December 1976. The Feds knew these things as they happened since we have reports from those times
Carmine as a Capo would’ve reported directly to Paul. Paul only answered to Carlo from 67-76 and who knows how many others in the Family reported directly to Carlo after he shied away from day to day operations. I have to imagine a small few - maybe Jimmy Brown, Gambino’s brother, Neil, and Paul perhaps - took direct orders from Carlo after 67. And perhaps a small few only met with him after that time. Supposedly Gotti met with Carlo in 73, but who knows if that is true?
How did they not have really damning stuff beyond the DeMeo crimes and the wiretaps before 1983? They didn’t have enough to put him on trial until that time.
Last edited by JackieAprile; 04/23/22 03:00 AM.
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: JackieAprile]
#1033348
04/23/22 04:51 AM
04/23/22 04:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815
Larry's Bar
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Because Castellano stuck to white collar crimes, so no violence took place most of the time. Which means not much paperwork had to be filed by LE, so there was some slack. It is different now, but back then it really didn't matter unless a huge amount of money was found that was cheated from the tax collectors like the IRS, city government ext. Also the time in question, LE were concentrating on Jimmy Brown and the priest as the strongest contenders to take over the borgata. Carmine did not want to testify in court like many informants do. They just pass information to their handlers, weather it be history, old information, or current on one of many conditions with not testify in any court as the number one reason.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
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Re: Was Neil an informer?
[Re: Giacomo_Vacari]
#1033349
04/23/22 05:41 AM
04/23/22 05:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
NYMafia
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,482
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No, Dellacroce was not an informant. If he was a lot of people would have been arrested, also Big Paul would not have been on the street as long as he had. Gambino, they were banking everything on deportation, and that did not happen. Redacted names can also mean there is an on going investigation and they do not want information leaked out. The high up that was giving up information was Carmine Lombardozzi. There are people out there trying to discredit that, and pointing fingers at others so their idol does not get diminished. All evidence points to Lombardozzi giving up information. The Dellacroce is an informant is a tool they use to tickle the wire, which was useful in that scenario as they were able to identify 6 or 7 other capos in the Gambino family at the current time, countless others in the other families across the nation, and I believe at least one or two people in the Genovese, not to mention getting the ranks more accurate, even to the administration level. Dellacroce was Gambinos ace is unity the Gambino family, and was given a lot of leeway in the family, where it would not make sense for Dellacroce to turn informant. If he was an informant at all, it would have to be during the Anastasia years and he was informing to Anastasia rivals and other groups in the Gambino family, not to LE. I agree Giacomo, that is the more likely scenario
Last edited by NYMafia; 04/23/22 05:55 AM.
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