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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1040194
09/14/22 01:33 AM
09/14/22 01:33 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,720 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,720
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In both the movie and the novel, a Bo hostage guaranteed Michael's safety when he met with Sol and Mac. The novel says that, in addition, Felix Bo enabled Michael's freedom from prosecution for the two murders when the eturned by confessing to the murders.. Novel also says the Bo's supplied hostages for all the families attending the Commission meeting. As Lou said: hell of a way to make a living. But, the Bo's made a hell of a good sidestory, and added some Sicilian "color." Incidentally, there was a real-life Felix Bocchicchio. He had a rap sheet as long as your arm and was in the boxing racket with Frankie (Mr. Gray") Carbo.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Trojan]
#1040288
09/16/22 02:58 AM
09/16/22 02:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,720 AZ
Turnbull
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very lucrative too They get a hefty fee and as I remember, no Bocchicchio hostage was ever harmed The novel states that "...since the Bochicchios were so primitive, they never let anything, any kind of punishment, stand in their way of vengeance. They would give up their own lives and there was no protection against them if they were betrayed." I inferred from that comment that Bo hostages must have been killed, and the Bo's wrought vengeance, for them to have earned that reputation.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Trojan]
#1040355
09/17/22 08:28 PM
09/17/22 08:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 91 Adelaide, Australia
lucab19
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I think that is exactly what Turnbull is saying; they earned their fearsome reputation.
Anyway, on a slightly different note, there is a nice little counterpoint between the movie and the novel concerning the Bocchicchio's. From the movie when Clemenza is schooling Mike about the Sollozzo hit:
CLEMENZA All right, you shot 'em both...now what do you do?
MICHAEL Sit down, finish my dinner...
CLEMENZA Come on kid, don't fool around...
In the novel, specifically the section about the Bocchicchio clan and their history:
In any case, Felix Bocchicchio was released from prison after serving three years, went home and kissed his wife and three children and lived peacefully for a year, and then showed that he was of the Bocchicchio clan after all. Without any attempt to conceal his guilt, he procured a weapon, a pistol, and shot his lawyer friend to death. He then searched out the two businessmen and calmly shot them both through the head as they came out of a luncheonette. He left the bodies lying in the street and went into the luncheonette and ordered a cup of coffee which he drank while he waited for the police to come and arrest him.
Last edited by lucab19; 09/17/22 08:30 PM.
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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Trojan]
#1040367
09/17/22 11:06 PM
09/17/22 11:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,474 No. Virginia
mustachepete
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Anyway, on a slightly different note, there is a nice little counterpoint between the movie and the novel concerning the Bocchicchio's. That's a nice catch!
"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Lou_Para]
#1040370
09/17/22 11:36 PM
09/17/22 11:36 PM
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Posts: 1,474 No. Virginia
mustachepete
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In the movie,while the Corleones are waiting to send Michael to the Sol hit,there is a mention of the "negotiator" playing pinochle with Clems men,amd that until Mike comes back safe and sound,he keeps playing cards. I wonder if Coppola used that phrasing instead of 'hostage' to avoid going into an explanation of the Bo's. I think by this time in the production, only stuff really critical to the story was going to be included. The book does use "negotiator" as well as "hostage." It would sound pretty odd to say the hostage is happy, they're letting him win. When he was annotating the novel, Coppola just crossed out pages related to the Boccicchio. It could be that he didn't even process that the Sollozzo hostage was a Bocchicchio.
"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Lou_Para]
#1040373
09/18/22 12:07 AM
09/18/22 12:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,492 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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Extract: Another great part of the novel was the whole Bocchicchio saga. Professional hostages,hell of a way to make a living The negotiator / hostage for Michael-Sollozzo meeting, for Michael's safe return! Clemenza: He's over at my place playin' pinochle with a couple of my men He's happy, they're lettin' him win...Bonus! If my memory serves me right, a Bocchicchio who'd already murdered his former colleagues, for betraying him, in some scam business deal or similar, took the rap for Sollozzo and McCluskey killings that cleared Michael of all these 'false' charges I am confused! So who hires these negotiator / hostage? The one playin' pinochle, at Clemenza's place, presumably for Michael's safe return was hired by Sollozzo or the Corleones
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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1040374
09/18/22 12:28 AM
09/18/22 12:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,474 No. Virginia
mustachepete
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I am confused! So who hires these negotiator / hostage?
The one playin' pinochle, at Clemenza's place, presumably for Michael's safe return was hired by Sollozzo or the Corleones He was hired by Sollozzo, in an agreement made with the Bocchicchio Family. If Michael was harmed during the meeting, the Corleones would kill the hostage. The Boccicchio would blame Sollozzo for loss of their kinsman, and seek revenge against him.
"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Turnbull]
#1040570
09/22/22 08:15 AM
09/22/22 08:15 AM
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Posts: 1,474 No. Virginia
mustachepete
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The Bo familymade for one of best side stories in the novel, but it was pure fiction. I've seen an interview where Puzo said he did some research into Sicilian mafia. I've always wondered if the Bocchicchio reflected that in some way. One issue with the Bocchicchio narrative is that at the start of the novel everyone's been at peace for ten years. Bad time for professional hostages.
Last edited by mustachepete; 09/22/22 08:15 AM.
"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1040629
09/22/22 09:00 PM
09/22/22 09:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,554
Trojan
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Thanks Pete So that's why the Bocchicchios get their fee paid in advance!
There was no hostage for Sollozzo because civilian Michael was no threat
As a matter of interest, if a meeting is arranged, say, between two warring families, do they hire hostages, for - 1. each other or 2. themselves I reckon it is all about guaranteeing the safety of their Guest. I don't think they hire hostages for themselves So depending on the circumstances, I reckon, Vito would hire the hostage for the other family because he is the formidable, bigger threat same as Sollozzo did for civilian Michael
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Re: Michael's Grand plans
[Re: Trojan]
#1062451
06/24/23 09:00 PM
06/24/23 09:00 PM
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Trojan
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backfired plans he was not forced into as we debated, in Was Michael a tragic figure? thread,
Kay Michael seeking Kay out, his horror of a wife Bet hypocrite Kay never told Anthony about his unborn brother she murdered
Frankie Pentangeli It was indeed unbecoming of a Don 1. Michael “undercut Pentangeli through his support of the Rosato Brothers” against his own man 2. Michael gave his loyalty to a Jew [Roth] before his own blood 3. Michael asked Pentangeli to lay down - settle these troubles - to the Rosato Brothers who spit right in Pentangeli's face 4. Michael threw Pentangeli [good old man -- who was loyal to Vito, Michael's father and to Michael, for years] under the bus 5. then abandonment of his 'dead' capo's family
Fredo no excuse whatsoever for “Fredo’s betrayal;” for something in it for me -- on my own, the Donship Nevertheless Michael could have spared Fredo
Mary Michael surrounded by his family, was parading himself and his family in public, so out in the open even at the steps of the Opera house in Sicily, in the night, in full view of anyone lurking knowing Mosca, the assassin who had never failed thus far, was contracted to murder him and that Mosca had already murdered Don Tommasino Go figure!
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