Since it's fundamental to GF2, I'm sheepish about admitting I don't understand why Roth wanted to kill Michael, especially before Michael turned over the $2 million he planned to invest in the Havana casino operation. It seems that Roth would have wanted that money; instead, he arranged a hit on Michael at Michael's Lake Tahoe estate.

Also, during the hit on Frankie at the bar, why did the killer say "Michael Corleone says hello"? The hit was arranged by Roth, not Michael. And since the idea was to kill Frankie, why bother misleading him about who ordered the hit?

Welcome CapriCasino!

There are a few main reasons why Roth wanted Mike dead. Firstly, Mike ordered the hit on Moe Greene, who was Roth's best mate (remember him screwing at Mike in Cuba about not asking who ordered the hit on Moe?). Secondely, since Michael took over the family buisness and moved out to Nevada, he has moved in on plenty of casinos owned by Roth, so thats why Roth felt threatened and wanted Mike dead, cause he was muscling in on his buisness.

Roth used the 2mill as a way to get close to Mike, the deal was not actualy gonna go threw,as Roth assumed Mike would be whacked before. Roth just wanted to get close to Mike and used this 'deal' to do so so he could kill him.

Finally, the hit on Frankie by the Rosato brothers,(who were backed by Roth). I believe that the Rosato brothers said this just in case Frankie survived, so that he would nt come back at them and Roth, but Frankie would believed it was Michael who ordered the hit, who, if you remembered had a disagreement with Frankie at the beginning of the film about the Rosato brothers. Therfore Frankie would be obviously a little p*ssed off at Mike, and so testify in court against him,later on. Therefore Mike would be put away and Roth would not have to worry bout him. Im not 100% on that though so you mite need a little more help on it!

hope i helped geezer.

I think those two reasons should be reversed in order of importance. The primary reason for Roth wanting Mike dead was the muscling in on the casinos. The fact that he knew Michael ordered the hit on pal Moe Green would be of secondary importance...Roth himself did concede that this was the business they were in and such a fate could fall upon any one of them.

Apple

It has been debated over and over on this site if Roth was even the one to attempt the hit on Michael. I do believe it was Roth but that is just me.

Another thing I would like to mention is that, in the whole scene where Roth is yelling at Michael about Moe Green proves nothing of Roth's intent to kill Micheal. When Michael asked who ordered the hit on Pentangali, Roth went on a rant basically implying that I got over you killing Green, now you should get over the hit on Pentangali.

I don't believe that Roth was all that mad at the fact that Green was killed due to this powerful speech given by Lee Strasburg, an amazing actor and mentor.

But the main reason wasn't even a threat to Roth's casinos. Roth just didn't like to be equally powerful He wanted to be alone at the top. So Roth led Michael in and atempted to kill him.

similar to what joethegreek said, the 2 million was just to make michael feel secure about his relationship with roth. if roth's original plan (michael's assassination at his home) had succeeded then michael wouldve been out of the picture, roth would continue to reign in nevada and all is well. michael survived the attempt, and lead roth to believe that he thought it was frankie pentangelli that attempted to kill michael (to keep roth close and see if roth would leak out any info of who the trader in his family was). roth, also being clever, drew michael in to his cuba deal to make michael feel secure and well taken care of. in order for michael to take part in this deal roth told him he needed to invest 2 million, but having michael out of the picture was what roth really wanted. michael saw right through roth's plans which is why the money never made it to roth.

turnbull has mentioned that the "michael corleone says hello" phrase was for the bartender to overhear and relay that to the cops during questioning, which makes the most sense. why? because if indeed roth set it up so that frankie was to survive the "murder" and believe that michael was the one who betrayed him would not make any sense with what roth had planned for michael in cuba. michael was never supposed to live through new years eve, what good would it be for frankie to testify against michael if michael was dead.

robert

Though Michael says to Fredo, "Roth wants me out," Michael is the one who wants Roth out. Roth and Vito Corleone had been partners, but only in the Prohibition-era booze business, as Roth pointedly reminds Michael several times. But Michael had been greedily horning in on Roth's Western gambling empire even before Vito died. The first business deal we see Michael involved in when he returned from Sicily was to push Moe Green, Roth's best friend, out of his Las Vegas hotel; later he had Moe killed because he resisted. By late 1958, when we first meet Hyman Roth, Michael has moved his entire operation to Lake Tahoe, owns three hotels in Nevada, and is about to force Meyer Klingman out of a fourth hotel, owned by Roth and the Lakeville Road Boys. And it's obvious that Michael has designs on Roth's Havana gaming empire. Small wonder Roth feels threatened!

Roth planned to kill Michael at Anthony's confirmation party because he knew Pentangeli would be there, contentious about Michael supporting Roth and the Rosato brothers. Pentangeli would have a perfect motive to kill Michael, and would make a perfect fall guy. When the hit on Michael failed, Roth went to Plan B: Invite Michael to Havana, anoint him as Roth's successor in front of witnesses, wheedle $2 million out of Michael, and have his pals in the Cuban government assassinate Michael.

As for Carmine Rosato’s famous line as he was garroting Frankie: “Michael Corleone says hello”: Not even Roth was clever enough to have bet his life on a split-second-timed plot to turn Frankie against Michael. Why would he even try, when he already had Michael in his killing-bottle in Havana? The simplest explanation is one that has been uncovered by Godfather scholars in an interview with Danny Aiello, who played Carmine Rosato. Aiello admits he ad-libbed the famous line, and Francis Coppola, for some reason (probably inadvertence), permitted the ad-lib to remain in the film, to the eternal bafflement of Godfather fans. But it’s also possible that Coppola, the most careful of directors, allowed it to remain because it fit the plot, even though Carmine intended to kill Frankie all along. “Michael Corleone says hello” was intended not for Frankie—but for Richie, the bartender, whose ginmill was being used to set up Frankie.
It’s obvious that Richie is a “civilian,” not a Made Man, and he’s nervous as hell about his bar being used for a murder (“Carmine, NO, not HERE!” he screams after the cop enters and Rosato draws his gun). Carmine knows that Richie might be squeezed by the cops investigating Frankie’s murder. Richie would be too fearful of Carmine to identify him as the killer. Still, as a civilian, Richie is not bound by the code of omerta. So Carmine hands Richie something he can give the cops so that Richie can get off the hook: “The murderers said, ‘Michael Corleone says hello.’ ” That line would set the police after Michael, and would be picked up by the press-- another nail into the coffin of Michael Corleone’s “legitimacy.” Clever Roth!

Ok, but if Carmine Rosato hadn't said "Michael Corleone says Hello", it would have been confusing to the audience as to why Frankie gives evidence against Michael. Frankie knew the Rosato brothers, and knew they were backed by Roth, so he would most likely have assumed the hit on him was part of their ongoing dispute in New York. Sure Frankie would of been angry with Michael for refusing to kill the Rosato brothers after he asked him to at the Tahoe party, but Michael's refusal alone would not have been enough for an old-timer like Frankie to break omerta for. Frankie had to believe Michael was out to kill him, and I don't see how else he could have thought that without the "Michael Corleone says Hello" line.......

wasnt it Tony Rostato who said "Michael Corleone says hello?"

Good point, Bella! Perhaps that's why, when Danny Aiello ad-libbed the line, FFC decided to leave it in the final cut.
BUT: Even if he hadn't said it, it would be credible for Frankie to think Michael might have set him up. Michael, after all, sent Frankie on that dangerous mission. Frankie wouldn't have believed that the Rosatos acted on their own to try to kill him, without Michael's ok.

good points from bella and turnbull...bella you said it would be somewhat confusing for the audience to understand why frankie would protest without the "phrase" from rosatto. but to tell you the truth i was confused when i first saw the movie and michael was telling roth; "frankie is a dead man, you dont object?" and then he goes and tells frankie it was roth that tried to kill him. from an audience stand point it would seem that, similar to what turnbull said, it was made to look like a set up for frankie five angels.
robert

I'd also add to the above that with Michael dead, Roth likely felt that Fredo would wind up with more power within the Family and perhaps above Tom as Don. Roth would then figure he'd be able to further manipulate Fredo into making decisions that benefitted Roth's own interests.

Don't know about that tamalie...in Roth's eyes Fredo was, like Pentangeli, "small potatoes". Tom Hagen, good guy though he was, was not a wartime consigliere and by extension he was not a wartime Don and Fredo was barely capable of running a Mickely Mouse nightclub much less a multi-million dollar crime empire. I figure Roth was sure that with Michael out of the way it would be the death knell for the Corleone family. He would take over their Nevada interests (after whacking Al Neri) and he would leave NYC to people like the Rosatos...and maybe a young Joey Zasa

Had Roth succeeded in killing Michael, he'd have been in a win-win situation. If Fredo took over, he'd have someone whom he owned. If a war broke out among Fredo, Neri, Rocco and Tom, the Corleones would have torn themselves apart.

a little off topic, but another interesting question related to the thread. maybe i'm missing something completely obvious, but when the cops came into the restaurant where rosato was garroting pentangelli, didn't carmine release pentangelli and start shooting the cops? why then didn't he just take 2 extra seconds, turn around and shoot pentangelli if he wanted him dead? pentangelli was still struggling when he released him, so rosato couldn't have just assumed that he succeeded in strangling him.

he didn't want him dead. He said "Michael says hello" or something like that. They wanted him to live so then he would go to the cops against Michael. (that is my take on it)

a little off topic, but another interesting question related to the thread. maybe i'm missing something completely obvious, but when the cops came into the restaurant where rosato was garroting pentangelli, didn't carmine release pentangelli and start shooting the cops? why then didn't he just take 2 extra seconds, turn around and shoot pentangelli if he wanted him dead? pentangelli was still struggling when he released him, so rosato couldn't have just assumed that he succeeded in strangling him.

When the police came in and interrupted the garroting, Rosato panicked. He shot at the cops and really became more concerned with self preservation than anything else. He probably should have shot Pentangeli as well, but in the heat of the moment had to make split second decisions under tremendous pressure. Taking out Frankie just got by him.

Did Roth engineer Frankie's narrow escape so he could survive and testify against Michael? It's absolutely the most-often-asked question on these boards.
In a word: No! Not even Roth was clever enough to have bet his life on a split-second-timed plot to turn Frankie against Michael. Why would he even try, when he already had Michael in his killing-bottle in Havana? The simplest explanation is one that has been uncovered by Godfather scholars in an interview with Danny Aiello, who played Carmine Rosato. Aiello admits he ad-libbed the famous line, and Francis Coppola, for some reason (probably inadvertence), permitted the ad-lib to remain in the film, to the eternal bafflement of Godfather fans. But it’s also possible that Coppola, the most careful of directors, allowed it to remain because it fit the plot, even though Carmine intended to kill Frankie all along. “Michael Corleone says hello” was intended not for Frankie—but for Richie, the bartender, whose ginmill was being used to set up Frankie.
It’s obvious that Richie is a “civilian,” not a Made Man, and he’s nervous as hell about his bar being used for a murder (“Carmine, NO, not HERE!” he screams after the cop enters and Rosato draws his gun). Carmine knows that Richie might be squeezed by the cops investigating Frankie’s murder. Richie would be too fearful of Carmine to identify him as the killer. Still, as a civilian, Richie is not bound by the code of omerta. So Carmine hands Richie something he can give the cops so that Richie can get off the hook: “The murderers said, ‘Michael Corleone says hello.’ ” That line would set the police after Michael, and would be picked up by the press-- another nail into the coffin of Michael Corleone’s “legitimacy.” Clever Roth!

I see what you are saying turnbull.

That does make more sense

with all due respect, i don't necessarily believe that rosato intended for pentangelli to escape, but i still don't buy that the cops scared him. since i'm so young and virginous when it comes to the godfather, i ask a lot of what must seem like dumb questions on these boards and one of the most common things i am told is that these are professional gangsters, so we have to understand how they operate. i don't believe a man as experienced as rosato would shit his pants just because he sees a couple of cops. if he's a professional killer who was ordered to kill frank pentangelli, i think it would have taken more than that to rattle him so much he completely forgets to do the one thing he set out to accomplish, which was kill frankie.

This scene is based on a real-life event:
During the Gallo/Profaci war of 1960-62, Larry Gallo, eldest of the Gallo brothers, was lured to a bar, the Sahara Lounge in Brooklyn, by a Profaci representative supposedly interested in making peace. When Larry entered the empty lounge, they threw a garotte over his neck and attempted to kill him. A cop happened by, saw the light on and entered, whereupon the killers fled (I don't know about their pants, though ) Gallo survived. The Daily News ran an unforgettable picture of him with a big red circular mark around his neck, being led away by the cops.

Why did Roth order the murder of Frankie then, if he assumed that Michael is going to do it anyway? By Michael saying "you don't object?", it sounds to me like Michael was asking for Roth consent, instead of asking Roth to do the actual execution...

Welcome, Pichichi. Hope to see many thoughtful posts from you!
Roth was behind the attempted assassination of Michael at Tahoe. He sought to make it look like Pentangeli was behind the assassination. The attempt failed. But when Michael visited Roth in Miami, Roth was heartened that Michael, as he expected, blamed Frankie for the attempt. He promised to kill Frankie (“Frank Pentangeli is a dead man”), and even asked Roth's permission (“You don’t object?”), as you noted. Roth saw a silver lining in the cloud of the botched assassination: Michael would kill the obstreperous Frankie without his having to lift a finger or spend a dime! Heh-heh!

But, instead of killing Frankie, Michael dispatched him to settle his problems with the Rosato Brothers. Oh-oh! Roth knew Michael would never give a pass to a mortal enemy. So, it was certain that Michael didn't suspect Frankie in the Tahoe attack-—leading to the possibility that he did suspect Roth.

What to do? Roth ordered the Rosatos to kill Frankie at their meeting. That way (and I'm finally answering your question), he'd eliminate a Michael-ally before the two of them could cook up any mischief against him. To maintain his façade, Roth could always claim that he’d only done what Michael said he was going to do anyway. (Later, in Havana, Roth implied that Frankie’s assassination was tit-for-tat for Michael’s murder of Moe Green.)