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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: Liggio]
#1079301
01/07/24 07:30 PM
01/07/24 07:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 29,784
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 29,784
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But it's a myth that organized crime can only thrive on poverty, they've been found prospering in wealthy regions and other countries as well. The Italian Mafia is extremely adaptable. I agree. but they still want to have some kind of Robin Hood image. At least most of them, some are just evil.
Last edited by Hollander; 01/07/24 07:30 PM.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: Blackmobs]
#1079323
01/07/24 09:31 PM
01/07/24 09:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,788
Dwalin2011
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,788
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Sacra Corona Unita
The organization was formed by on 25 December 1983, when several imprisoned Camorra and Ndrangheta members gathered at Giuseppe Rogoli's prison cell and initiated and sanctioned him as the head of a new criminal organization which, with the support of the Ndrangheta, would set itself up as Apulia's crime syndicate.
Is this statement true ? And if it is… why create a new organization? Contrary to the Stidda in Sicily, it doesn’t seem it was because of a rivalry inside an organization I think the new organization was needed initially to fight the expansion of Raffaele Cutolo's camorra organization into Apulia; the local criminals organized themselves with the support of the 'ndrangheta Bellocco group.
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 01/07/24 09:31 PM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#1079325
01/07/24 10:21 PM
01/07/24 10:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
Havana
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
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Sacra Corona Unita
The organization was formed by on 25 December 1983, when several imprisoned Camorra and Ndrangheta members gathered at Giuseppe Rogoli's prison cell and initiated and sanctioned him as the head of a new criminal organization which, with the support of the Ndrangheta, would set itself up as Apulia's crime syndicate.
Is this statement true ? And if it is… why create a new organization? Contrary to the Stidda in Sicily, it doesn’t seem it was because of a rivalry inside an organization I think the new organization was needed initially to fight the expansion of Raffaele Cutolo's camorra organization into Apulia; the local criminals organized themselves with the support of the 'ndrangheta Bellocco group. Wasn'torganized crime around in Apulia about as long as the Sicilan Mafia, Camorra.and N'dragheta had been around? And called La Mala Vita in Apulia (even though that's also an Umbrella ,name as is "Maffa" gfor all these groups? And then Cutola organized at least some of them into his Camorra faction? And as you say those who were a branch of the Camorra broke off on their own.Maybe with as it says above with the backing of the NDrangheta? ? Jusr asking questions based on things I'd read
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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: Havana]
#1079327
01/07/24 10:49 PM
01/07/24 10:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,788
Dwalin2011
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,788
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Sacra Corona Unita
The organization was formed by on 25 December 1983, when several imprisoned Camorra and Ndrangheta members gathered at Giuseppe Rogoli's prison cell and initiated and sanctioned him as the head of a new criminal organization which, with the support of the Ndrangheta, would set itself up as Apulia's crime syndicate.
Is this statement true ? And if it is… why create a new organization? Contrary to the Stidda in Sicily, it doesn’t seem it was because of a rivalry inside an organization I think the new organization was needed initially to fight the expansion of Raffaele Cutolo's camorra organization into Apulia; the local criminals organized themselves with the support of the 'ndrangheta Bellocco group. Wasn'torganized crime around in Apulia about as long as the Sicilan Mafia, Camorra.and N'dragheta had been around? And called La Mala Vita in Apulia (even though that's also an Umbrella ,name as is "Maffa" gfor all these groups? And then Cutola organized at least some of them into his Camorra faction? And as you say those who were a branch of the Camorra broke off on their own.Maybe with as it says above with the backing of the NDrangheta? ? Jusr asking questions based on things I'd read I am not really sure to be honest, I have yet to read more about the earlier history of crime in Apulia, most books I found are about the after 1980 period; but maybe those earlier groups weren't as large-scale as Cosa Nostra, Camorra and 'Ndrangheta; I read Giuseppe Rogoli wasn't even a real organized crime boss before he went to jail, he was just an armed robber. His organization was born as a prison gang initially, then a number of its members were released and expanded the activities onto the streets. Cutolo did organize some of the locals into the "New Apulian Camorra" ("Nuova Camorra Pugliese") in the first 1980s, but others formed an opposition and Rogoli got himself affiliated into the 'ndrangheta in prison, to get the support of the Bellocco 'ndrina. I read also that before the 1980s, there was Cosa Nostra, Camorra and 'Ndrangheta activity in Apulia though, because many their members were sent in "internal banishment" into different regions (including Apulia) by law enforcement, because they thought that far away from home, organized criminals would be less powerful without their connections; but that plan backfired when the exiled criminals started making connections and expanding their activities in other regions as well; in reality, internal banishment helped then to do so. But these were organizations from other regions, I am not sure how organized the Apulian locals were before the 1980s though...
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 01/07/24 11:01 PM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: m2w]
#1079334
01/08/24 04:52 AM
01/08/24 04:52 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,266 Balkans
Strax
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,266
Balkans
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the 80s was crazy not only for the mafia wars both in Sicily, Calabria and Campania but especially for the large amount of politicians, cops, public officials, prosecutors killed... the connections between mafia, politicians, P2, vatican P2 scandal and connections with Vatican, collapse of Banco Ambrosiano and murder of 'Gods Banker' in London were bigger than all mafia wars.
Last edited by Strax; 01/08/24 04:53 AM.
"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: Blackmobs]
#1079343
01/08/24 11:11 AM
01/08/24 11:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,364 Houston
Liggio
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,364
Houston
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No, that's why they had to evolve, though every major group besides Cosa Nostra still has their murderous moments. The Camorra & the Foggia clans still kill quite often, Ndrangheta every now and then, Cosa Nostra almost never. The heads of Cosa Nostra put a moratorium in place to cease all killings, the fact that it very rarely ever happens actually says how organized they are. But the Mafia doesn't have to kill to achieve its objectives. Toto Riina was just a boneheaded moron.
I never understood this thinking that they have to be ultraviolent to get what they want. We still see surveillance pics of mob bosses and politicians walking arm-in-arm, and find that they are deeply embedded in legitimate businesses and institutions, without a single shot fired. But stuff like that doesn't make great movies, so simple-minded people think if there's not blood everywhere it's not there.
Last edited by Liggio; 01/08/24 11:16 AM.
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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: m2w]
#1079347
01/08/24 01:21 PM
01/08/24 01:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,266 Balkans
Strax
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,266
Balkans
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I agree that killing a lot doesn't mean being more powerful, but for example the murder of an inconvenient judge like Gratteri would be almost unthinkable today Few years ago Cosa Nostra wanted to kill Nino Di Matteo, i don't know if u remember that , explosives were sent from Calabria, Matteo Messina Denaro said same people who wanted Falcone and Borsellino dead ordered it and that it must be done. Police learned about it thru informant and managed to arrest them and seize the explosives. But it's just stupid, if they do anything like that today , they are done, insane heat will bring them all down like it did in late 80s early 90s
Last edited by Strax; 01/08/24 01:22 PM.
"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#1079356
01/08/24 03:51 PM
01/08/24 03:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
Havana
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
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Sacra Corona Unita
The organization was formed by on 25 December 1983, when several imprisoned Camorra and Ndrangheta members gathered at Giuseppe Rogoli's prison cell and initiated and sanctioned him as the head of a new criminal organization which, with the support of the Ndrangheta, would set itself up as Apulia's crime syndicate.
Is this statement true ? And if it is… why create a new organization? Contrary to the Stidda in Sicily, it doesn’t seem it was because of a rivalry inside an organization I think the new organization was needed initially to fight the expansion of Raffaele Cutolo's camorra organization into Apulia; the local criminals organized themselves with the support of the 'ndrangheta Bellocco group. Wasn'torganized crime around in Apulia about as long as the Sicilan Mafia, Camorra.and N'dragheta had been around? And called La Mala Vita in Apulia (even though that's also an Umbrella ,name as is "Maffa" gfor all these groups? And then Cutola organized at least some of them into his Camorra faction? And as you say those who were a branch of the Camorra broke off on their own.Maybe with as it says above with the backing of the NDrangheta? ? Jusr asking questions based on things I'd read I am not really sure to be honest, I have yet to read more about the earlier history of crime in Apulia, most books I found are about the after 1980 period; but maybe those earlier groups weren't as large-scale as Cosa Nostra, Camorra and 'Ndrangheta; I read Giuseppe Rogoli wasn't even a real organized crime boss before he went to jail, he was just an armed robber. His organization was born as a prison gang initially, then a number of its members were released and expanded the activities onto the streets. Cutolo did organize some of the locals into the "New Apulian Camorra" ("Nuova Camorra Pugliese") in the first 1980s, but others formed an opposition and Rogoli got himself affiliated into the 'ndrangheta in prison, to get the support of the Bellocco 'ndrina. I read also that before the 1980s, there was Cosa Nostra, Camorra and 'Ndrangheta activity in Apulia though, because many their members were sent in "internal banishment" into different regions (including Apulia) by law enforcement, because they thought that far away from home, organized criminals would be less powerful without their connections; but that plan backfired when the exiled criminals started making connections and expanding their activities in other regions as well; in reality, internal banishment helped then to do so. But these were organizations from other regions, I am not sure how organized the Apulian locals were before the 1980s though... A couple of things I found.Actually found one or two more similar sources about early Camorra/Mala Vita Organizations in Apulia/Bari https://books.google.com/books?id=e...20vita%20society%20in%20bari&f=falsehttps://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/48101549
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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: Blackmobs]
#1079359
01/08/24 03:59 PM
01/08/24 03:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
Havana
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
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Re: Italy organized crime and the 80s
[Re: Havana]
#1079365
01/08/24 04:47 PM
01/08/24 04:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
Havana
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
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There is actually an article called:"The Mala Vita Society" Counterpart to the Mafia in Southern Italy that says it exists in Apulia's Adriatic Provinces
I only have it in a series of 6 screen shots.May have originally been in the NY Times.Not sure where I have it from .Its very detailed of this secret society
The way that this article started was that the Mafia exists in Apulia as a Secret Society "Mala Vita" Say it was discoverred in 1889 and had been terrorizing the Apulian Adriatic provinces for 9 years. That recently the government had rounded up 179 of them who were on trial in Bari Wish I could get the link to it or send the screen shots
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