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Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
#1092063
06/10/24 12:06 AM
06/10/24 12:06 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
OP
Underboss
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926
Australia
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The Last WoltzI think one of the themes of the Trilogy (and GFII in particular) is people lying to themselves They were all wrong and they were all doomed to suffer a violent death or the violent death of those closest to them - Michael believes he can become legitimate while running the nation's top Mafia Family
- Kay tells herself that the Family will be legitimate within 5 years
- Roth thinks he can rule his empire forever
- And Fredo tells himself that he can take sides against the Family and somehow end up more powerful and respected
Kangaroo Don- Vito believes his no to Sollozzo drug deal and then sending Luca over to Tattaglias will find what they have under their fingernails
- Vito believes after the Baptism, Moe Greene, Carlo murders Michael can live a 'legitimate' life
- Woltz acts he is bigger than the Corleones and wakes up with his prized horse Khartoum's head
- Greene thinks he can slap a Corleone around, insult another Corleone and somehow keep the hotel
- Carlo thinks he can lure Sonny to his murder and somehow end up as Michael's right hand man in Nevada
- Turncoat Tessio believes he can set his Don up to be murdered and another Don will embrace him into their family
- Geary thinks he can insult, squeeze the Top Mafia Don for 250,000 dollars Plus a monthly payment of 5% of the gross of all four hotels -- and Mr. Corleone will just pay up and keep paying
TrojanKay thinks she can abort their unborn son and somehow he'd let her take the children from him
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Trojan]
#1092404
06/15/24 12:04 AM
06/15/24 12:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
OP
Underboss
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926
Australia
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In fairness to Michael, Roth was stringing Michael along among others “gifting” their Hotel and pretending “to go along” with Michael moving Klingman out instead if Roth had been honest perhaps Michael and Roth could have worked out some mutually beneficial arrangement
As regards Roth's Havana business, I believe Michael understood that whilst Michael was Roth's successor, the heir apparent, Roth was always going to hold onto his Havana empire until Roth's retirement or death and at that time, Michael would inherit Roth's interests in the Havana operation but we all know Roth was somehow going to rule his empire forever!
Then both Michael and Roth could live happily for a hundred years! Nobody any the wiser
Michael, his "legitimate" life, decent American, gambling mogul, public Benefactor and Roth, the average neighbour, harmless old man, his carefully cultivated reputation as a retired investor on a pension intact
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1092462
06/16/24 12:03 AM
06/16/24 12:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926
Australia
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- Connie thinks she can see her children on weekends, fly around the world with men who don't even care about her and use her like a whore! and Michael somehow would fund her junket on The Queen with her latest husband to be....
- Merle thinks his 'future' brother-in-law Michael would fund Merle's freeloading extravagant Lifestyle with his sister
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Capri]
#1092666
06/20/24 12:06 AM
06/20/24 12:06 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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OP
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Posts: 926
Australia
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Michael: Now -- I don't know this Merle -- I don't know what he does -- I don't know what he lives on [I do!] Now why don't you tell him that marriage is out of the question and you don't want to see him anymore. Now he'll understand, believe me. Connie -- if you don't listen to me -- and marry this man -- you'll disappoint me The way Michael totally ignored Merle as if Merle wasn't even there.... Merle and Connie holding hands would sway?! Michael to pay their passage on The Queen Merle so used to living off women [or his 'future' brother-in-law] just sits through it all.... shameless then again Merle's got to be -- thick-skinned -- in his line of work! Only Michael Corleone can make “you'll disappoint me” sound menacing
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Trojan]
#1092907
06/24/24 12:08 AM
06/24/24 12:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926
Australia
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How did you do your new handle Kangaroo Don Turnbull is a good man -- changed it for me
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1092908
06/24/24 12:08 AM
06/24/24 12:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
OP
Underboss
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926
Australia
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Sollozzo couldn't even remember his own lies! In the car Michael: We'll straighten everything out tonight. I don't want my father bothered any more... Sollozzo: He won't be, Mike; I swear on my children he won't be. later at Louis' Restaurant in the Bronx Michael: What I want -- what's most important to me -- is that I have a guarantee: No more attempts on my father's life. Sollozzo: What guarantees could I give you, Mike? I am the hunted one! I missed my chance. You think too much of me, kid -- I'm not that clever. All I want, is a truce.
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Trojan]
#1092985
06/25/24 12:03 AM
06/25/24 12:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926
Australia
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Great casting in small rolesAl Lettieri as Solozzo: Perfect! Solozzo's evil look when he told Tom let me worry about Luca That look, over the coffee cup, could have won an Oscar by itself.
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1092987
06/25/24 01:02 AM
06/25/24 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,446 Alabama
dixiemafia
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,446
Alabama
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Sollozzo couldn't even remember his own lies! In the car Michael: We'll straighten everything out tonight. I don't want my father bothered any more... Sollozzo: He won't be, Mike; I swear on my children he won't be. later at Louis' Restaurant in the Bronx Michael: What I want -- what's most important to me -- is that I have a guarantee: No more attempts on my father's life. Sollozzo: What guarantees could I give you, Mike? I am the hunted one! I missed my chance. You think too much of me, kid -- I'm not that clever. All I want, is a truce. To be fair he didn’t really lie. The Don was never touched again and Sollozzo was the hunted one. He pretty much laid out how the rest of his life would go (how short it was lol). Sollozzo was cocky enough to think he could negotiate his way out of killing the Don while laying the blueprint of The Corleone’s Revenge
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Capri]
#1093184
06/27/24 12:07 AM
06/27/24 12:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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OP
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Australia
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Michael was right indeed Michael: We can't wait. I don't care what Sollozzo says about a deal, he's gonna kill Pop, that's it. That's the key for him. Gotta get Sollozzo
Sonny: Lemme ask you something, Professor, I mean -- what about McCluskey? Huh? What do we do with this -- cop here?
Michael: But if Clemenza can figure a way -- to have a weapon planted there for me -- then I'll kill 'em both. Whoa!
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Capri]
#1093185
06/27/24 12:07 AM
06/27/24 12:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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OP
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Michael: I'm talking about ah - ah - a dishonest cop -- a crooked cop [McCluskey] who got mixed up in the rackets and got what was coming to him Nothing nefarious! about the Corleones Michael: My father's no different than any other powerful man -- (then, after Kay laughs) -- Any man who's responsible for other people. Like a senator or a president
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Capri]
#1093186
06/27/24 12:07 AM
06/27/24 12:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 926 Australia
Kangaroo Don
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Underboss
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Australia
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McCluskey the untouchable New York Police captain
It is fleshed out in the novel that McCluskey never expected Michael was going to kill him too He was waiting for Michael to surrender I frisked him -- he's clean. I've frisked a thousand young punks... 1,001 bang! bang! Good one Capri That is Funny
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1093194
06/27/24 04:29 AM
06/27/24 04:29 AM
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 398
Capri
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 398
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I try Michael: I'm talking about ah - ah - a dishonest cop -- a crooked cop [McCluskey] who got mixed up in the rackets and got what was coming to him Nothing nefarious! about the Corleones Michael: My father's no different than any other powerful man -- (then, after Kay laughs) -- Any man who's responsible for other people. Like a senator or a president Michael: I have never been arrested or indicted for any crime what-so-ever. That no proof linking me to any criminal conspiracy whether it is called "Mafia" or "Cosa Nostra" or whatever other name you wish to give has ever been made public. I have not taken refuge behind the 5th amendment as it was my right to do. I challenge this committee -- to produce any witness or evidence against. And if it do not, I hope they will have the decency to clear my name with the same publicity with which they have now besmirched it. Oh -- who's being naïve and Lying to themselves
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Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#1093504
06/30/24 06:38 PM
06/30/24 06:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 691
Trojan
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 691
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Michael: My father's no different than any other powerful man -- (then, after Kay laughs) -- Any man who's responsible for other people. Like a senator or a president Kay: You know how naïve you sound? Michael: Why? Kay: Senators and presidents don't have men killed... Michael: Oh -- who's being naïve, Kay?
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