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Jun 10th, 2024
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Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves #1092063
06/10/24 12:06 AM
06/10/24 12:06 AM
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Posts: 789
Australia
K
Kangaroo Don Offline OP
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Kangaroo Don  Offline OP
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The Last Woltz
Quote
I think one of the themes of the Trilogy (and GFII in particular) is people lying to themselves
They were all wrong and they were all doomed to suffer a violent death or the violent death of those closest to them

  • Michael believes he can become legitimate while running the nation's top Mafia Family
  • Kay tells herself that the Family will be legitimate within 5 years
  • Roth thinks he can rule his empire forever
  • And Fredo tells himself that he can take sides against the Family and somehow end up more powerful and respected

Kangaroo Don
  • Vito believes his no to Sollozzo drug deal and then sending Luca over to Tattaglias will find what they have under their fingernails
  • Vito believes after the Baptism, Moe Greene, Carlo murders Michael can live a 'legitimate' life
  • Woltz acts he is bigger than the Corleones and wakes up with his prized horse Khartoum's head
  • Greene thinks he can slap a Corleone around, insult another Corleone and somehow keep the hotel
  • Carlo thinks he can lure Sonny to his murder and somehow end up as Michael's right hand man in Nevada
  • Turncoat Tessio believes he can set his Don up to be murdered and another Don will embrace him into their family
  • Geary thinks he can insult, squeeze the Top Mafia Don for 250,000 dollars Plus a monthly payment of 5% of the gross of all four hotels -- and Mr. Corleone will just pay up and keep paying

Trojan
Kay thinks she can abort their unborn son and somehow he'd let her take the children from him

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092116
06/10/24 07:28 PM
06/10/24 07:28 PM
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Trojan Offline
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I reckon, the biggest lying to themselves were the women Biggest Hypocrites

They knew exactly what their husband's business was that their rich and privileged life was funded by tainted money from other people's blood, misery and murder

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Trojan] #1092123
06/11/24 12:02 AM
06/11/24 12:02 AM
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Kangaroo Don Offline OP
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You are not wrong!

Roth's wife, Marcia blissfully and conveniently ignorant! of her husband's business
Where and how did Marcia think her retired investor on a pension, husband accumulate $300 million in his 'pension' silk purse

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092272
06/13/24 03:03 AM
06/13/24 03:03 AM
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Capri Offline
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tuna sandwich lunch That's how lol

Roth don't like violence, He is a business man. Blood is a big expense.

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Capri] #1092388
06/14/24 08:05 PM
06/14/24 08:05 PM
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Trojan Offline
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True. Tahoe shooting was his first ever violence. Looks like they were hired out of Rosato brothers crew

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Trojan] #1092404
06/15/24 12:04 AM
06/15/24 12:04 AM
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Kangaroo Don Offline OP
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In fairness to Michael, Roth was stringing Michael along among others “gifting” their Hotel and pretending “to go along” with Michael moving Klingman out instead if Roth had been honest perhaps Michael and Roth could have worked out some mutually beneficial arrangement

As regards Roth's Havana business, I believe Michael understood that whilst Michael was Roth's successor, the heir apparent, Roth was always going to hold onto his Havana empire until Roth's retirement or death and at that time, Michael would inherit Roth's interests in the Havana operation but we all know Roth was somehow going to rule his empire forever!

Then both Michael and Roth could live happily for a hundred years! Nobody any the wiser

Michael, his "legitimate" life, decent American, gambling mogul, public Benefactor and Roth, the average neighbour, harmless old man, his carefully cultivated reputation as a retired investor on a pension intact

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092460
06/15/24 10:48 PM
06/15/24 10:48 PM
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Michael overestimated -- He acts like I'm his son his successor the heir apparent and underestimated Roth

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Trojan] #1092461
06/16/24 12:03 AM
06/16/24 12:03 AM
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Australia
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Kangaroo Don Offline OP
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Sure thing Michael's greed, nearly undone himself with Roth believing Roth that Michael was Roth's successor, the heir apparent, their father-son alliance -- blinded until Michael survived the Tahoe bedroom shooting

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092462
06/16/24 12:03 AM
06/16/24 12:03 AM
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  • Connie thinks she can see her children on weekends, fly around the world with men who don't even care about her and use her like a whore! and Michael somehow would fund her junket on The Queen with her latest husband to be....
  • Merle thinks his 'future' brother-in-law Michael would fund Merle's freeloading extravagant Lifestyle with his sister

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092470
06/16/24 08:25 AM
06/16/24 08:25 AM
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Capri Offline
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It concerns me, too. Is it okay, Mike, if I stay? his passage on The Queen rolleyes

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092471
06/16/24 08:27 AM
06/16/24 08:27 AM
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Capri Offline
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Capo
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Vito we're not murderers uhwhat

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Capri] #1092666
06/20/24 12:06 AM
06/20/24 12:06 AM
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Kangaroo Don Offline OP
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Quote
Michael: Now -- I don't know this Merle -- I don't know what he does -- I don't know what he lives on [I do!]
Now why don't you tell him that marriage is out of the question and you don't want to see him anymore.
Now he'll understand, believe me. Connie -- if you don't listen to me -- and marry this man -- you'll disappoint me

The way Michael totally ignored Merle as if Merle wasn't even there....
Merle and Connie holding hands would sway?! Michael to pay their passage on The Queen

Merle so used to living off women [or his 'future' brother-in-law] just sits through it all.... shameless
then again Merle's got to be -- thick-skinned -- in his line of work!

Only Michael Corleone can make “you'll disappoint me” sound menacing

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092862
06/23/24 05:04 AM
06/23/24 05:04 AM
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Capri Offline
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she didn't disappoint didn't marry him

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092894
06/23/24 07:20 PM
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Eh gosh -- imagine the nerve of the gigolo Also wanting a drink

How did you do your new handle Kangaroo Don

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Trojan] #1092907
Yesterday at 12:08 AM
Yesterday at 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Evita
How did you do your new handle Kangaroo Don
Turnbull is a good man -- changed it for me

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092908
Yesterday at 12:08 AM
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Sollozzo couldn't even remember his own lies!

In the car
Quote
Michael: We'll straighten everything out tonight. I don't want my father bothered any more...
Sollozzo: He won't be, Mike; I swear on my children he won't be.

later at Louis' Restaurant in the Bronx
Quote
Michael: What I want -- what's most important to me -- is that I have a guarantee: No more attempts on my father's life.
Sollozzo: What guarantees could I give you, Mike? I am the hunted one!
I missed my chance. You think too much of me, kid -- I'm not that clever. All I want, is a truce.

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092957
Yesterday at 07:11 PM
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McCluskey the untouchable New York Police captain

It is fleshed out in the novel that McCluskey never expected Michael was going to kill him too
He was waiting for Michael to surrender

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Trojan] #1092985
1 hour ago
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Kangaroo Don Offline OP
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Great casting in small roles

Al Lettieri as Solozzo: Perfect!
Originally Posted by Turnbull
Originally Posted by Evita
Solozzo's evil look when he told Tom let me worry about Luca

That look, over the coffee cup, could have won an Oscar by itself.

Re: Under / Over estimating / Lying to themselves [Re: Kangaroo Don] #1092987
36 minutes ago
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ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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Originally Posted by Kangaroo Don
Sollozzo couldn't even remember his own lies!

In the car
Quote
Michael: We'll straighten everything out tonight. I don't want my father bothered any more...
Sollozzo: He won't be, Mike; I swear on my children he won't be.

later at Louis' Restaurant in the Bronx
Quote
Michael: What I want -- what's most important to me -- is that I have a guarantee: No more attempts on my father's life.
Sollozzo: What guarantees could I give you, Mike? I am the hunted one!
I missed my chance. You think too much of me, kid -- I'm not that clever. All I want, is a truce.



To be fair he didn’t really lie. The Don was never touched again and Sollozzo was the hunted one.

He pretty much laid out how the rest of his life would go (how short it was lol). Sollozzo was cocky enough to think he could negotiate his way out of killing the Don while laying the blueprint of The Corleone’s Revenge


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