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Re: Joe Bonanno’s ‘Tucson’ Regime Membership Chart
[Re: Hollander]
#1109879
12/30/24 07:24 AM
12/30/24 07:24 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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If the mob had known that Bonnano's book would one day be used as the basis to prove that the Cosa Nostra existed and was to be used as the blueprint in descibing the Cosa Nostra as a criminal racketeering enterprise in Rico cases going forward,would they have let himmlive in retirement in Arizona?
On the other hand prosecutors somehow get away with taking Bonnano's word and his book ass if it was the Gospel Truth and not just him blowing off hot air about his lineage His book didn't matter much the so-called Mafia was known by Hoover's FBI and CIA since the beginning. One of the main reasons why Bonanno's book was so well received by both the general public and law enforcement alike was that no formal Mafia boss had ever penned his own autobiography. And certain no one of Joe Bonanno's stature. So when Joe put his thoughts and knowledge to paper about what was what, it was pretty much taken as gospel. After all, who was still around to even refute what he wrote? He was an original. And even the few mafiosi still alive who may have contested it were certainly not about to speak of such things. ...and Rudy ran with it.
Last edited by NYMafia; 12/30/24 08:15 AM.
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Re: Joe Bonanno’s ‘Tucson’ Regime Membership Chart
[Re: NYMafia]
#1109880
12/30/24 08:52 AM
12/30/24 08:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 29,742
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 29,742
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If the mob had known that Bonnano's book would one day be used as the basis to prove that the Cosa Nostra existed and was to be used as the blueprint in descibing the Cosa Nostra as a criminal racketeering enterprise in Rico cases going forward,would they have let himmlive in retirement in Arizona?
On the other hand prosecutors somehow get away with taking Bonnano's word and his book ass if it was the Gospel Truth and not just him blowing off hot air about his lineage His book didn't matter much the so-called Mafia was known by Hoover's FBI and CIA since the beginning. One of the main reasons why Bonanno's book was so well received by both the general public and law enforcement alike was that no formal Mafia boss had ever penned his own autobiography. And certain no one of Joe Bonanno's stature. So when Joe put his thoughts and knowledge to paper about what was what, it was pretty much taken as gospel. After all, who was still around to even refute what he wrote? He was an original. And even the few mafiosi still alive who may have contested it were certainly not about to speak of such things. ...and Rudy ran with it. True, but what Bonanno said wasn't that shocking IMO much was already known in Sicily as well as the USA.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Joe Bonanno’s ‘Tucson’ Regime Membership Chart
[Re: Hollander]
#1109881
12/30/24 09:04 AM
12/30/24 09:04 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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If the mob had known that Bonnano's book would one day be used as the basis to prove that the Cosa Nostra existed and was to be used as the blueprint in descibing the Cosa Nostra as a criminal racketeering enterprise in Rico cases going forward,would they have let himmlive in retirement in Arizona?
On the other hand prosecutors somehow get away with taking Bonnano's word and his book ass if it was the Gospel Truth and not just him blowing off hot air about his lineage His book didn't matter much the so-called Mafia was known by Hoover's FBI and CIA since the beginning. One of the main reasons why Bonanno's book was so well received by both the general public and law enforcement alike was that no formal Mafia boss had ever penned his own autobiography. And certain no one of Joe Bonanno's stature. So when Joe put his thoughts and knowledge to paper about what was what, it was pretty much taken as gospel. After all, who was still around to even refute what he wrote? He was an original. And even the few mafiosi still alive who may have contested it were certainly not about to speak of such things. ...and Rudy ran with it. True, but what Bonanno said wasn't that shocking IMO much was already known in Sicily as well as the USA. Yes, and no. What he spoke about as far as the Commission and how bosses thought and conducted themselves within the confines of their own borgata, was a revelation of sorts, to law enforcement officials in both Italy and America. But more so here in the U.S., because that is where he operated and where the 'rules' that he was compelled to follow truly applied. In many instances -- although Joe himself was born in Sicily -- the rules and precedures followed by the American Mafia differed from those of borgatas on the island of Sicily. They had been greatly modified or changed to fit the "American" Mafia model.
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Re: Joe Bonanno’s ‘Tucson’ Regime Membership Chart
[Re: Hollander]
#1109883
12/30/24 09:31 AM
12/30/24 09:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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Valachi laid the groundwork and was more important in understanding Cosa Nostra Rudy did say Joe's book helped him in building the Commission case. But it didnt play a big role in other cases or trials. Yes, I agree, totally. Valachi was very instrumental in laying out the basic groundwork of Cosa Nostra. The nuts and bolts. But although he was there from the beginning, his was still a 'soldiers' perspective -- and a low-level soldier at that. Whereas Bonanno gave a completely different viewpoint, from the high perch of a boss sitting atop a family -- one of the largest and most important families. And he also had a much deeper perspective of the life because his knowledge traced all the way back to Sicily, even generations before his personal ascension. But, that said, the so-called Commission case was the only case that comes to mind where they directly used Bonanno's info. Although I'm certain that other prosecutors over the years made use of it 'unofficially.' But by that measuring stick, Valachi's info was never used either to make a criminal case. The one exception being where he testified (largely untruthfully) at one of Carmine Persico's early cases (which ended up in acquittal.) Outside of Harlem, Lower Manhattan and the Bronx, Valachi's knowledge was very limited. Whereas, once again, Bonanno's knowledge was national and international in scope.
Last edited by NYMafia; 12/30/24 09:51 AM.
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Re: Joe Bonanno’s ‘Tucson’ Regime Membership Chart
[Re: majicrat]
#1109898
12/30/24 01:14 PM
12/30/24 01:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
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Luciano's book came out before and with his approval but only after T. Luchese died. So, I kinda think he was the first boss with an even higher stature. IMO Yes, majicrat, you are correct. The book about Luciano came out way before Bonanno’s did. It was titled, “The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano” — and was written by Martin A. Gosch and Richard Hammer. I actually have the book. But the big difference with that book as opposed to Bonanno’s is that it wasn’t a true autobiography by Luciano. Gosch had supposedly been in negotiations with Lucky to co-author a book about his life. But Luciano died midstream, before the project could really get underway in earnest, and certainly before it could be completed. So how much of it was Luciano, and how much of it was Gosch? Lol. Therein lies the rub! It is extremely debatable just how much of the book were actually the words and thoughts of Lucky Luciano himself, as opposed to how much of the book was the ‘poetic license’ of Gosch and Hammer. In my personal opinion — after having read the book myself — I believe the vast majority of what’s between those two covers is a lot of hogwash. I was very disappointed in the book. For me, it was a lot of fluff with very little substance. You can almost tell that much of the thoughts and information supplied was inserted by someone who really had no idea about what they were tailing about — namely, Martin Gosch.
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Re: Joe Bonanno’s ‘Tucson’ Regime Membership Chart
[Re: NYMafia]
#1110001
12/31/24 04:26 PM
12/31/24 04:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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Here's a little excerpt from our Arizona/Bonanno story that may provide some food for thought…
…Born on January 18, 1905, the wily old “Don Peppino” passed away of natural causes on May 11, 2002, at the very respectable old age of 97.
Joe had successfully navigated and survived “The Life” long enough — through God’s good grace — to live to nearly a century old.
Giuseppe Calogero Bonanno Sr. had not only survived long enough to outlast most of his family and both friends and enemies alike. But by all accounts, Joe had also thrived and lived very well throughout it all.
And in the very end, Don Peppino died in the comfort of his own bed — with his shoes off — surrounded by his loving children, many grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and other extended family members…Not a bad way to go!
Where do we sign up?
Until the next time…”The Other Guy!” --
PS: This could give additional thought on our current thread between the two Joes -- Bonanno and Profaci.
Last edited by NYMafia; 12/31/24 04:33 PM.
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Re: Joe Bonanno’s ‘Tucson’ Regime Membership Chart
[Re: Hollander]
#1110052
01/01/25 02:23 AM
01/01/25 02:23 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694
AZ
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Valachi laid the groundwork and was more important in understanding Cosa Nostra Rudy did say Joe's book helped him in building the Commission case. But it didnt play a big role in other cases or trials. The main value of Bonanno's book to Giuliani was that he found in Don Peppino's description of the Commission a model of a "Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization" that the RICO law could be used against. RICO had been on the books since 1970, but Federal prosecutors were reluctant to apply it because they didn't know how to build a case. Giuliani recruited G. Robert Blakey, the author of the RICO Act, to sit with him and his team and coach them on how to use the law (Giuliani referred to Blakey as "my consigliere"). Blakey had impressive credentials: For decades he'd been an investigator, then chief counsel, to the Senate Permanent Investigations subcommittee, then chief counsel to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. The main value of Valachi's televised testimony, IMO, was twofold: First, millions of Americans who weren't New Yorkers or Chicagoans learned that there was such a thing as a "National Syndicate of Organized Crime." They may have been aware of "gangs," or "Italian mobs," or "The Black Hand" from movies, but Valachi's testimony gave OC a national perspective. Second, it lit a fire under the FBI, which had previously largely ignored LCN.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Joe Bonanno’s ‘Tucson’ Regime Membership Chart
[Re: Turnbull]
#1110071
01/01/25 11:11 AM
01/01/25 11:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
Havana
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
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Valachi laid the groundwork and was more important in understanding Cosa Nostra Rudy did say Joe's book helped him in building the Commission case. But it didnt play a big role in other cases or trials. The main value of Bonanno's book to Giuliani was that he found in Don Peppino's description of the Commission a model of a "Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization" that the RICO law could be used against. RICO had been on the books since 1970, but Federal prosecutors were reluctant to apply it because they didn't know how to build a case. Giuliani recruited G. Robert Blakey, the author of the RICO Act, to sit with him and his team and coach them on how to use the law (Giuliani referred to Blakey as "my consigliere"). Blakey had impressive credentials: For decades he'd been an investigator, then chief counsel, to the Senate Permanent Investigations subcommittee, then chief counsel to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. The main value of Valachi's televised testimony, IMO, was twofold: First, millions of Americans who weren't New Yorkers or Chicagoans learned that there was such a thing as a "National Syndicate of Organized Crime." They may have been aware of "gangs," or "Italian mobs," or "The Black Hand" from movies, but Valachi's testimony gave OC a national perspective. Second, it lit a fire under the FBI, which had previously largely ignored LCN. And for the arrogance of writing the book that helped put the so many in prison,the allowed Bonnano to retire in peace? Who was it exactly that wanted the gathering at Appalachia? Was it actually Genovese who has always been the one said to have called for it? Or was it maybe Magaddino who wanted it, or possibly Barbara or Bufalino ? Only asking because an article once said it was actually Magaddino, Bonnano's cousin
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Re: Joe Bonanno’s ‘Tucson’ Regime Membership Chart
[Re: Turnbull]
#1110077
01/01/25 01:12 PM
01/01/25 01:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 29,742
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 29,742
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Valachi laid the groundwork and was more important in understanding Cosa Nostra Rudy did say Joe's book helped him in building the Commission case. But it didnt play a big role in other cases or trials. The main value of Bonanno's book to Giuliani was that he found in Don Peppino's description of the Commission a model of a "Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization" that the RICO law could be used against. RICO had been on the books since 1970, but Federal prosecutors were reluctant to apply it because they didn't know how to build a case. Giuliani recruited G. Robert Blakey, the author of the RICO Act, to sit with him and his team and coach them on how to use the law (Giuliani referred to Blakey as "my consigliere"). Blakey had impressive credentials: For decades he'd been an investigator, then chief counsel, to the Senate Permanent Investigations subcommittee, then chief counsel to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. The main value of Valachi's televised testimony, IMO, was twofold: First, millions of Americans who weren't New Yorkers or Chicagoans learned that there was such a thing as a "National Syndicate of Organized Crime." They may have been aware of "gangs," or "Italian mobs," or "The Black Hand" from movies, but Valachi's testimony gave OC a national perspective. Second, it lit a fire under the FBI, which had previously largely ignored LCN. RICO was used in Mafia cases in the 1970s I believe, Bonanno's acount in 1983 did put the focus on a board of control, but throughout the history of the Commission, the body has been involved in several incidents including the Apalachin meeting in 1957 and a plot to kill several members of the Commission in 1963.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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