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The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
#1114189
02/09/25 02:09 PM
02/09/25 02:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: NYMafia]
#1114193
02/09/25 03:46 PM
02/09/25 03:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
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...The City of Montreal in Canada has a current population of almost 1,800,000 people. It is the most populated city in Quebec province and the second-most populous city in Canada. Its broader metropolitan area encompasses over 4,000,000 residents.
The largest ethnic groups are French, followed by Italians. French is the city’s official language. In 2017, the Economic Intelligence Unit ranked Montreal the 12th most livable city in the world.
It is and has always been a thriving and vibrant metropolis, chock full of entertainment and nightlife, professional commerce, and various industries.
Only 60 miles from the closest United States border into the town of Plattsburgh and slightly further to other major American destinations, Montreal has become a major hub of commerce between the two countries for upwards of 100 years…and rife with opportunities.
It was a fact not lost on the underworld of those two countries!
Both the American and Canadian underworld, as well as the Sicilian Mafia and Calabrian ’Ndrangheta, have also utilized this nexus to conduct their illegal “commerce” as well.
And although there have been many independent criminals, loosely formed gangs, and highly organized criminal groups that have traversed its borders through the years, arguably no group had even come close to duplicating what the Cotroni Crime Family, in partnership with the American Mafia, ever accomplished.
As it would turn out, it was a city custom-built for the mob!
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: Havana]
#1114298
02/10/25 07:05 AM
02/10/25 07:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
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Aren't a considerable number of guys in criminal organizations in France,particularly Marseilles, Corrsica,and possibly among the French Canadian members of the Cotroni clan actually of Italian descent? Thats exactly correct, Havana. France has several very significant organized crime groups to call their own, especially operating in the south of the country. As far as the Cotroni clan went, more than a few of their membership tied their connections back to France, among several other countries. Cotroni himself was always closely affiliated with the France underworld. After all, how to you think the Cotroni brothers became so big in narcotics? They were among the most significant international traffickers in the world for decades. Hence, "The French Connection."
Last edited by NYMafia; 02/10/25 07:06 AM.
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: Havana]
#1114395
02/11/25 09:11 AM
02/11/25 09:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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The Cotroni Clan seemed to be longer in Montreal and the Calabrians seemed stronger as well as longer in Montreal and yet,they joined Cosa Nostra instead of the Cosa Nostra members falling in with them.Why is it that in any city where the Camorra or 'Ndrangheta preceded and was stronger than the Cosa Nostra that they eventually join Cosa Nostra instead of the other way around or at least staying separate from Cosa Nostra Good morning, Havana. I have several 'theories' for this. And they are not necessarily mutually exclusive of one another... 1) The Mafia was always recognized as being the 'better' and more organized entity of the three major Italian organized crime networks — with a rigid formal "Roman legion" like structure. Whereas both Camorra and Ndrangheta are not as well hierarchically designed. So it only made sense that when they combined groups, they adapted the "better" design — the one developed by the Sicilians. 2) I suspect that the Sicilians may have already planted their flag simultaneous to coming to the "New World” — not only within the U.S., but also up in Canada. In other words — across ALL of North America. If that indeed was the case, then any other Italian organization trying to formally establish a beachhead here thereafter would have had to recognize the Sicilians as the original "resident" underworld power. 3) Lastly, Masseria, Maranzano, and finally, their successor — Lucky Luciano — were all Sicilian. So I imagine, Luciano — as the overall architect — led them the "Mafia" way.
Last edited by NYMafia; 02/11/25 09:12 AM.
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: NYMafia]
#1115040
02/17/25 10:12 PM
02/17/25 10:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
Havana
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
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The Cotroni Clan seemed to be longer in Montreal and the Calabrians seemed stronger as well as longer in Montreal and yet,they joined Cosa Nostra instead of the Cosa Nostra members falling in with them.Why is it that in any city where the Camorra or 'Ndrangheta preceded and was stronger than the Cosa Nostra that they eventually join Cosa Nostra instead of the other way around or at least staying separate from Cosa Nostra Good morning, Havana. I have several 'theories' for this. And they are not necessarily mutually exclusive of one another... 1) The Mafia was always recognized as being the 'better' and more organized entity of the three major Italian organized crime networks — with a rigid formal "Roman legion" like structure. Whereas both Camorra and Ndrangheta are not as well hierarchically designed. So it only made sense that when they combined groups, they adapted the "better" design — the one developed by the Sicilians. 2) I suspect that the Sicilians may have already planted their flag simultaneous to coming to the "New World” — not only within the U.S., but also up in Canada. In other words — across ALL of North America. If that indeed was the case, then any other Italian organization trying to formally establish a beachhead here thereafter would have had to recognize the Sicilians as the original "resident" underworld power. 3) Lastly, Masseria, Maranzano, and finally, their successor — Lucky Luciano — were all Sicilian. So I imagine, Luciano — as the overall architect — led them the "Mafia" way. The way I understand it,after Masseria was killed and the Castellamarese War ended, Maranzano brought the Mafia,N'Drangheta,Camorra,and united the Sicilians with the Mainlanders And then he laid out his plan for organizing something like the Roman Legions or Military with a Boss, Underboss, Captains, and Soldiers And after Maranzano was killed,this type of organization chart remained Prior tothe Castellamarese War was either Maranzano's or Masseria's gangs organized in that way? And were the mafia families in other cities organized that way with that formal chain of command before the Castellamarese War? or in some cases were they ever organized that way in some other cities? Likewise was that the way the Families were organized with that formal chain of command in Sicily?
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: Havana]
#1115055
02/18/25 08:25 AM
02/18/25 08:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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The Cotroni Clan seemed to be longer in Montreal and the Calabrians seemed stronger as well as longer in Montreal and yet,they joined Cosa Nostra instead of the Cosa Nostra members falling in with them.Why is it that in any city where the Camorra or 'Ndrangheta preceded and was stronger than the Cosa Nostra that they eventually join Cosa Nostra instead of the other way around or at least staying separate from Cosa Nostra Good morning, Havana. I have several 'theories' for this. And they are not necessarily mutually exclusive of one another... 1) The Mafia was always recognized as being the 'better' and more organized entity of the three major Italian organized crime networks — with a rigid formal "Roman legion" like structure. Whereas both Camorra and Ndrangheta are not as well hierarchically designed. So it only made sense that when they combined groups, they adapted the "better" design — the one developed by the Sicilians. 2) I suspect that the Sicilians may have already planted their flag simultaneous to coming to the "New World” — not only within the U.S., but also up in Canada. In other words — across ALL of North America. If that indeed was the case, then any other Italian organization trying to formally establish a beachhead here thereafter would have had to recognize the Sicilians as the original "resident" underworld power. 3) Lastly, Masseria, Maranzano, and finally, their successor — Lucky Luciano — were all Sicilian. So I imagine, Luciano — as the overall architect — led them the "Mafia" way. The way I understand it,after Masseria was killed and the Castellamarese War ended, Maranzano brought the Mafia,N'Drangheta,Camorra,and united the Sicilians with the Mainlanders And then he laid out his plan for organizing something like the Roman Legions or Military with a Boss, Underboss, Captains, and Soldiers And after Maranzano was killed,this type of organization chart remained Prior tothe Castellamarese War was either Maranzano's or Masseria's gangs organized in that way? And were the mafia families in other cities organized that way with that formal chain of command before the Castellamarese War? or in some cases were they ever organized that way in some other cities? Likewise was that the way the Families were organized with that formal chain of command in Sicily? The history on this is a little bit murky, but its generally believed that as a student of -- history, Julius Caesar, and the Roman Legion -- Maranzano was the base "architect" of the hierarchy style we've come to accept for a Cosa Nostra family. Yet, Lucky Luciano is also credited with having streamlined the design of the families after his ascent to power. But there is also evidence that back in Sicily the "borgatas" have also -- generally speaking -- followed a similar design. The big difference being that many of those "Families" were very small in size, with memberships of only 10 or 20 men. So a large "hierarchy" of underbosses, capos, etc., was neither needed or even possible. Many were designed with only a "Capo" followed by a small cadre of inducted soldiers, then "picciotti" or associates. Some had a "second in command" so to speak.... but that's it. In the U.S.A., by the very nature of the massive families that were set up, a more robust hierarchy was likewise required to maintain tight control over the troops....leading to a large "cabinet" of capos, consiglieri to quell disagreements, etc. There are many other nuances that came into play to affect the "development" and design of the Families. But this is a general overall, and how I have come to understand it.
Last edited by NYMafia; 02/18/25 03:08 PM.
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: NYMafia]
#1115072
02/18/25 02:13 PM
02/18/25 02:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
Havana
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
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The Cotroni Clan seemed to be longer in Montreal and the Calabrians seemed stronger as well as longer in Montreal and yet,they joined Cosa Nostra instead of the Cosa Nostra members falling in with them.Why is it that in any city where the Camorra or 'Ndrangheta preceded and was stronger than the Cosa Nostra that they eventually join Cosa Nostra instead of the other way around or at least staying separate from Cosa Nostra Good morning, Havana. I have several 'theories' for this. And they are not necessarily mutually exclusive of one another... 1) The Mafia was always recognized as being the 'better' and more organized entity of the three major Italian organized crime networks — with a rigid formal "Roman legion" like structure. Whereas both Camorra and Ndrangheta are not as well hierarchically designed. So it only made sense that when they combined groups, they adapted the "better" design — the one developed by the Sicilians. 2) I suspect that the Sicilians may have already planted their flag simultaneous to coming to the "New World” — not only within the U.S., but also up in Canada. In other words — across ALL of North America. If that indeed was the case, then any other Italian organization trying to formally establish a beachhead here thereafter would have had to recognize the Sicilians as the original "resident" underworld power. 3) Lastly, Masseria, Maranzano, and finally, their successor — Lucky Luciano — were all Sicilian. So I imagine, Luciano — as the overall architect — led them the "Mafia" way. The way I understand it,after Masseria was killed and the Castellamarese War ended, Maranzano brought the Mafia,N'Drangheta,Camorra,and united the Sicilians with the Mainlanders And then he laid out his plan for organizing something like the Roman Legions or Military with a Boss, Underboss, Captains, and Soldiers And after Maranzano was killed,this type of organization chart remained Prior tothe Castellamarese War was either Maranzano's or Masseria's gangs organized in that way? And were the mafia families in other cities organized that way with that formal chain of command before the Castellamarese War? or in some cases were they ever organized that way in some other cities? Likewise was that the way the Families were organized with that formal chain of command in Sicily? The history on this is a little bit murky, but its generally believed that as a student of -- history, Julius Caesar, and the Roman Legion -- Maranzano was the base "architect" of the hierarchy style we've come to accept for a Cosa Nostra family. Yet, Lucky Luciano is also credited with having streamlined the design of the families after his ascent to power. But there is also evidence that back in Sicily the "borgatas" have also -- generally speaking -- followed a similar design. The big difference being that many of those "Families" were very small in size, with memberships of only 10 or 20 men. So a large "hierarchy" of underbosses, capos, etc., was neither needed or even possible. Many were designed with only a "Capo" followed by a small cadre of inducted soldiers, then "picciotti" or associates. Some had a "second in command" so to speak.... but that's it. In the U.S.A., by the very nature of the massive families that were set up, a more robust hierarchy was likewise required to maintain tight control over the troops....leading to a large "cabinet" of capos, consiglieri to quell disagreements, etc. There are many other nuances that came into play to affect the "development" and design of the Families. But this is a general overall and how I have come to understand it. So actually the whole organization of the mafia as it is today was for the most part something new created by Maranzano and continued by Luciano. In effect I'd guess that prior to that ,the way the Camorra,Mafia,and N"drangheta were organized was not much different from each other And thus,with the new format,the creation of Cosa Nostra all these guys,wherever they came from,were basically joining something new together There might not even be this type of hierarchy in Sicily to this day,I would guess. Maybe more in Calabria from what I've read.And once upon at time with the Camorra So my theory is that the Camorra guys or N'Drangheta guys didn't join the mafia ,but rather,with the Sicilians, all joined Cosa Nostra -something as new as it was old And I'd theorize that the leaders and maybe memberships were mainly Sicilian at first because Maranzano assumed leadership,then Luciano ,and as a result more Sicilians wanted to join ,or were invited to join,than the Neapolitans,Calabrians,and others,maybe just because they didn't like or trust the Sicilians,or just thought they were better off where they were.
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: NYMafia]
#1115075
02/18/25 02:33 PM
02/18/25 02:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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Havana, I must respectfully disagree with you on some of what you wrote.
To my mind, the Sicilian "Mafia" was the strongest of the three groups. And to that point, they were also the better organized and most intelligently architected of these entities.
So in 1931, after the legendary "Castellammrese War" was over, the "Sicilians" still ruled the roost as far as overall power and nationwide structure went.
Hence, although the vast majority of mainland Italians racketeers joined their ranks -- and the name "Cosa Nostra" was formally adapted, the "Sicilians" still ruled the roost, which is clearly evident by the fact that 99% of all recognized "Families" throughout the United States maintained Sicilians as the Family bosses, with some Calabrians and Neapolitans, etc., being "installed" in secondary key positions in certain families as the underboss, consiglieri, and/or capodecina.
That restriction started to ease up years later. But initially --- almost to a Family --- Sicilians headed ALL borgatas with the exception of Chicago under Capone, and one or two other examples in other cities.
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: NYMafia]
#1115083
02/18/25 06:12 PM
02/18/25 06:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
Havana
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 373
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Havana, I must respectfully disagree with you on some of what you wrote.
To my mind, the Sicilian "Mafia" was the strongest of the three groups. And to that point, they were also the better organized and most intelligently architected of these entities.
So in 1931, after the legendary "Castellammrese War" was over, the "Sicilians" still ruled the roost as far as overall power and nationwide structure went.
Hence, although the vast majority of mainland Italians racketeers joined their ranks -- and the name "Cosa Nostra" was formally adapted, the "Sicilians" still ruled the roost, which is clearly evident by the fact that 99% of all recognized "Families" throughout the United States maintained Sicilians as the Family bosses, with some Calabrians and Neapolitans, etc., being "installed" in secondary key positions in certain families as the underboss, consiglieri, and/or capodecina.
That restriction started to ease up years later. But initially --- almost to a Family --- Sicilians headed ALL borgatas with the exception of Chicago under Capone, and one or two other examples in other cities. It wasn't too long before Genovese and his camorra friends seemed to get hold of the Luciano Family What other non Sicilian bosses headed families ?
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: Havana]
#1115087
02/18/25 06:31 PM
02/18/25 06:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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Havana, I must respectfully disagree with you on some of what you wrote.
To my mind, the Sicilian "Mafia" was the strongest of the three groups. And to that point, they were also the better organized and most intelligently architected of these entities.
So in 1931, after the legendary "Castellammrese War" was over, the "Sicilians" still ruled the roost as far as overall power and nationwide structure went.
Hence, although the vast majority of mainland Italians racketeers joined their ranks -- and the name "Cosa Nostra" was formally adapted, the "Sicilians" still ruled the roost, which is clearly evident by the fact that 99% of all recognized "Families" throughout the United States maintained Sicilians as the Family bosses, with some Calabrians and Neapolitans, etc., being "installed" in secondary key positions in certain families as the underboss, consiglieri, and/or capodecina.
That restriction started to ease up years later. But initially --- almost to a Family --- Sicilians headed ALL borgatas with the exception of Chicago under Capone, and one or two other examples in other cities. It wasn't too long before Genovese and his camorra friends seemed to get hold of the Luciano Family What other non Sicilian bosses headed families ? Well, remember, Lucky chose Vito as his #2, his underboss. So there's that. And Frank Costello (a Calabrian) became Lucky's consigliere. So Luciano was very forward thinking. In fact, I cannot think of another Family all across the U.S. that was as integrated with varied Italians from different regions as the Luciano Family was. In Cleveland, the Family boss, from almost the get-go, was Francesco (Don Ciccio) Milano --- a Calabrian. In Philadelphia, there was such a significant Calabrian presence and faction, that although the Family "boss" was Sicilian, Calabrians were sometimes chosen as second-in-command and consiglieri to help keep the Family balance of power in check. --- And this is off the top of my head. But I'm sure there were a few more if I really think about it.
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: Havana]
#1115095
02/18/25 07:10 PM
02/18/25 07:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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That restriction started to ease up years later. But initially --- almost to a Family --- Sicilians headed ALL borgatas with the exception of Chicago under Capone, and one or two other examples in other cities.
Which might be why a possibly significant number of capable non Sicilians possibly declined to join
Thats quite possible, even probable. And conversely, there were those non-Sicilians who longed for membership, but weren't deemed acceptable, or certain circumstances just didn't allow for it. So, on review, I think the sword cut both ways.
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Re: The Vincenzo Cotroni Family of Montreal
[Re: NYMafia]
#1115097
02/18/25 07:12 PM
02/18/25 07:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
NYMafia
OP
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OP

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,454
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That restriction started to ease up years later. But initially --- almost to a Family --- Sicilians headed ALL borgatas with the exception of Chicago under Capone, and one or two other examples in other cities.
Which might be why a possibly significant number of capable non Sicilians possibly declined to join
Thats quite possible, even probable. And conversely, there were those non-Sicilians who longed for membership, but weren't deemed acceptable, or certain circumstances just didn't allow for it. So, on review, I think the sword cut both ways. And I also think these things were not necessarily mutually exclusive of one another.
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