during the tral sequence in the godfather II, there is a cardboard display of the family structure. does anyone know the structure, or have a picture of it? also, does anyone know where i can get floor plans or diagrams of the corleone houses? i'm looking for the new york and lake tahoe residences. it would be greatly appreciated!

I know the display is in a book.. The Godfather Legacy or something, I think it's called. Being a cheapskate myself I don't have it, and haven't been able to find one online.

Don't know about the floorplans either, sorry.

The family chart is in a book - "The Godfather Legacy" by Harlan Lebo. Good resource and read for the avid GF fan.

Floor plans....? sorry. Welcome Bloomsburger, nice to have a PA person on the board. You have a few keystoners here. My inlaws are there (Exeter). I love the state.

Ive seen floorplans for the Dons study, I'm not sure where though.GF Legacy has a pretty good picture of the order(although its a little off), you can read all the names pretty well.

Here's a (poor) copy of the chart of the Family structure:

The floor plans for Don Vito's study are displayed on Geoff's site (the parent site for these boards). Here's a link to that page:
Don Vito\'s Office Floorplans

Here's a pic of the real house used as the setting of the Corleone's house in Long Beach. (The real house is on Staten Island, NY).

Fredo as capo bastone has to be the most amusing mis-interpetation of his position and his skills (or lack thereof)!

However, looking back 30 years and comparing that tree to the real-life trees that I've seen, I think it was reflective of law enforcement's desire to fit every associate into a predetermined model of their perception of the organized crime structure. In that way, the movie was well ahead of the curve!

Also, look closely at the photos in the Corleone family tree. They're all formal portraits! When do any of these guys sit still for a picture (other than a mug shot)? Not a single, out-of-focus, 400mm telephoto on grainy film, outside the social club, partially obscured, badly framed photo in the bunch!

tony b.

This is yet another example of FFC's fanatical attention to detail:
The chart of the Corleone Family in GFII is a letter-perfect reproduction of the charts used by the FBI in the famous Senate Valachi hearings of 1962. The FBI previously hadn't even acknowledged the existance of the Mafia, so the charts they showed were put together from a variety of sources and contained many, many errors. The FBI was looking to cover its own ignorance. Likewise, the chart shown in GFII, depicted as put together by the FBI, also contains many errors--I believe, deliberately, so that FFC could make them as authentic a product of ignorance as were the Valachi hearing charts.
Check out this url to see the Valachi charts (click on the Mob family charts at the bottom) and see just how perfectly FFC reproduced them:

http://www.gangrule.com/gallery/maps.html

Sweet.. thanks for the links. What they say is true.. Turnbull IS a good man.

The nicknames are funny sometimes.. I wonder what these guys were thinking when they came up with some of them.

John Kobler, one of Capone's best biographers, pointed out that the nicknames attached to Mob figures were seldom ones that they chose. Rather, they were most often made up by cops or more likely, newspapermen. To paraphrase Kobler: Mobsters didn't go around greeting each other as in, "Yo, Greasy Thumb...wasssup, Three Fingers." No one ever called Capone Scarface--"Snorky" was the only nickname he permitted, and only for close pals.

Turnbull, YES. But one could argue that it wasn't so much attention to detail as it was a simple example of "why re-invent the wheel?" The Kefauver and McClellan hearings were real events and in the public domain. It would be the smart thing for FFC to say, "I want a family tree and I want it to look like the one from McClellan...but put our talent in the appropriate places. Oh...and make Fredo underboss." The attention to detail would also be avoiding at all costs any camera shots that would make the chart alone the center of attention. It would have been pure farce and a gratuitous moment of comic relief for the audience to see Fredo's name as underboss.

The trees I'm most familiar with are the Chicago trees from McClellan in 1963, the Chicago Crime Commission in 1980, and LIUNA from the late '90's. It's like a social science "panel study" of organized crime...done by inexperienced researchers. Names on the LIUNA chart, at or near the top in the '90's, often don't even appear on the Chicago Crime Commission chart. I think this supports three related arguments. First, particularly in Chicago, the mob likes to "keep their heads down"...good advice offered by perhaps the greatest don. Second, stars rise quickly, and can often burn out equally as fast. Third, despite their best efforts, law enforcement still can't be certain who the players are, even when they (the law) are trying to create the scorecard! Again, trying to force names to a structure that may not be accurate in the first place.

Wayne...Turnbull beat me to the keyboard on the nickname thing. Once, while in a local fast food joint, I heard a patron tell his out-of-town guests he would take them on a tour of suburban River Forest and show them where the "Big Tuna" once lived. NOBODY I know in this area EVER used that name. It was always "J.B." There was the media nickname and then there was the name "that was used by his friends -- one of affection -- one of respect."

I didn't bother to point out that the Big Tuna actually had three different homes in that suburb. River Forest also has four homes designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, making it the center of the universe for two things most often associated with Chicago...gangsters and great architecture.

OK...I'm done babbling and done editing this post...

tony b.

As for Fredo being Underboss, well I agree that it's BS, but Underbosses are one of the open to interpertation positions in the Mafia; the duties of the Underboss can vary from family to family.

Technically an underboss just is someone who is trustworthy and is a buffer by which the Don issues his orders though. The Underboss, usually is proficient but due to his subordinant position and the fact that the position does not technically only at base level is a buffer it's really perfect for Fredo. It's high enough to make him feel important, but realtivly unimportant as to allow Fredo to function without fucking anything up.

Who is the Capo on the far left of the Capo line of the Pic SC posted? It goes, from second on; Neri, Lampone and Pentangeli.

The other two names on that line are Clemenza (extreme left, without the picture) and Tessio.

Ah.. I didn't know that. Thanks for clearing that up

Nicknames given to wiseguys (BY wiseguys) were often used to differentiate guys with similar names... for instance, there may have been two guys named "John", and fellow mobsters may have used "Big John" and "Little John" to separate them while talking about them.

Another (colorful) descriptor used to help identify an individual was his "racket" (or his "job"). For instance, a guy who worked the jukebox racket may be known as "Allie Jukebox", and he may have been greeted as such when meeting fellow wiseguys.

I agree that the more popular wiseguy nicknames (ie. "Scarface") were NOT used in face-to-face dialogue, though.

Obviously Fredo wasn't a real "underboss," and certainly didn't rank higher than Neri, Rocco or Frankie. But I believe FFC put him there to make a point: it's precisely the kind of dumb assumption that uninformed FBI people would make--Fredo is Michael's older brother, ergo he's an underboss and outranks everyone else. DUHHHHH! But it's also an example of fanatical attention to detail that makes the Trilogy great. We see that chart only in passing, but FFC cared enough about it to put that little point in. And, of course, diehard fans like us honored him by spotting it, and commenting on it.
Here's a telling example of FFC's philosophy: In "Hearts of Darkness," the superb documentary on the making of "Apocalypse Now," we see FFC setting up a scene where Willard and crew are going to have dinner with some French planters. FFC tells his people, "I want a bottle of Chassagne Montrachet here, and I want it served at 48 degrees farenheit." What??? How would any viewer know if the wine in the bottle was Chassagne Montrachet or chilled maiden's piss--much less what the temperature was. But then FFC tells his people: "...and get French people for the background--get them from Bangkok or from Paris if you have to. I want every French viewer of this film who lived through that era to feel that this scene is absolutely authentic." Exactly!! Then I understood FFC's methodology: if you sweat tiny details like the temperature of the wine, you'll never miss the big stuff. What a genius!

Good point Turnbull, I am so turned off the triteness of most movies, they spoon feed us most of the plot, shut down our brains and up what they charge at the box office by putting big extraneous special effects into the movie.

What a good director and film maker will do, is inject some intelligence into a film. Films are supposed to suck us in and FFC does it so effectivly due to his intelligent film making as well as his attention to detail.

I have a question. Is Sonny or Fredo Vincent's dad? I say its Sonny but I don't know for sure.

Sonny is Vincent's father, Lucy Mancini is her mother, as you would recall Lucy was having an affair with Sonny in GF I.

I believe that even according to Michael's word Fredo was underboss. Michael tells Tom "I give you complete power, TOM -- over FREDO and his men, ROCCO, NERI, everyone." I think he put Fredo as underboss because he was his brother. He was just figurehead and didnt really have power but Michael gave him the name so he would sob his ass off, that traitor! Also I believe Al Neri should have been Don b4 Vincent, but since Vinny was Sonny's kid he wanted to keep it in the family.

Feel like explaining why Fredo might be Vinnie's father?

Not to be rude, but did you even watch Part III? It clearly states that Vincent is Sonny's illegitimate son with Lucy Mancini, the bridesmaid that Sonny slept with.

That would explain why Vincent has the temper that his father had.

Fredo's son would have probably been in the special olympics.

OK, it's harsh... I'm just kidding.