I have a question is anyone else suspecious of Tessio's involvement at the hospital. His men are guarding the Don, but disappear; presumibly detained by the Cops. But they could have just as well left if he decided to make a "smart move" and betray the Don to get more power. Don't get me wrong, I think Tessio was still loyal to Vito and only really had a problem with Michael and thought he was a crappy Don when he decided to betray him.

But if I am wrong that could mean that Tessio is a real rat. What do you guys think?

Also, if it was coincidental that they were on duty and taken off, then fine. But I would imagine one of them men would pick up a phone and call Hagen or something.

Wow.. that's an interesting observation. I never even considered that Tessio could have been a traitor before Michael took power and deliberately pulled his men. Personally I don't think it happened that way (Tessio was one of my favorite characters, I'd like to think he was loyal to Vito for as long as possible ) but it's very interesting to think about...

I don't think it was that suspicious. Tessio's men had been removed from the hospital only about 10-15 minutes prior to when Michael arrived. Another important point to consider: it was 1945 - there were no cell phones (how wonderful, but I digress!). According to McCluskie, he "thought I had all you guinea hoods locked up." So Tessio's men were taken straight to jail. So if Michael arrived shortly thereafter, then it is highly likely that no one had the time, nor the opportunity, to call.

Good points guys, I as, I stated think he did actually get his men arrested by McCluskey, who had the absolute power at the scene. But there is an ambiguousness about the scene, that we never can really be sure he turned traitor. On the surface, yes it totally looks that way, but I still am not 100% sure of that myself.

Another point (as long as we're speculating, which is one of the joys of these boards ): Just suppose that Tessio saw himself and Clemenza as rivals. If he did, the fact that the Don's shooting occurred on Clemenza's watch (Paulie was a Clemenza man), and that Sonny wasn't entirely trusting Clemenza at that point, played in Tessio's favor. Therefore, it'd be in his interest to have nothing go wrong at the hospital, the better to prove his trustworthiness at Clemenza's expense. The last thing Tessio'd want to do would be to engineer a screw-up at the hospital. No, I think it played just the way Goombah said.

I don't think Tessio would ever want to hurt the Corleons-and especially not Vito. Yes, Tessio did betray them but it was because he didn't like Micheal's way of doing things. He had no problems when Vito was Don.

I too doubt he was involved in the Hospital thing; but he was in the process of betraying Michael. He was setting up a hit on his territory for Barzini. The only thing that leads me to think that is speculation as Turnbull points out. The scene in the Don's study where the Michael is the Godfather and officially in power, where Tessio and Clemenza petition to break off from the family. Well on the most literal level; I think FFC and MP, used this to show the characters of Tessio and Clemenza, one stayed loyal but the other on seeked to betray Michael and I think it was Tessio's ultimate justification that under Michael's command he would only falter and so would his regime, so he thought he should do some "business" with Barzini.

However, that got me thinking. Clemenza, is very loyal and had been. Him petitioning to leave the family doesn't seem very typical of his character. Now this is speculation, but I think Tessio may have had a hand in convincing Clemenza that Michael wasnt' a great Don. Clemenza may have confessed to Tessio that he had doubts about Michael and Tessio may have convinced him that he was right. If this is the case it would imply that Tessio had plans to consolidate more power before the Godfather (vito) had died. If this is the case, it's slightly more likely that he had a hand in the hospital scene.

There is no doubt in my mind that that scene was anything other than how it was played. Tessio would never dream of betreying Vito, the only reason he betreyed Mike was becuase he wasnt acting like he knew what he was doing.Tessio's men were locked up by McKlusky, nothing more, nothing less.

No way that Tessio was setting up Vito at the Hospital. Let's remember something, if Tessio was turning on the Corleone's that early on, and was already going over to Barzini, then he would have tipped Barzini off about the hit on Sollozo and McClusky. Remember this, Tessio was the one who had the gun planted behind the toilet, and also, if memory serves me correctly, according to the book, Tessio was the getaway driver for Mike after the hit. Nah, there is no way that Tessio was involved in the removal of the guards at the hospital. Once the Don relinquished power over to Mike, and Tessio complained about what was going on and Vito would not act, asking him to trust Mike, it was then, upon leaving that meeting that Tessio most likely put his plan into action, and reached out to Barzini.


Don Cardi

Tessio would never betray Don Vito Corleone, as he knew Vito from his early days and knew he was a man to be reckoned with. The smart move would be to stay with Vito, but when Michael came into power as the Don, Tessio did not think Michael could handle being the Don. He felt it was the smart move to betray the family. Interesting thought of how he could have betrayed the Corleone family early by pulling off his men, but I do not think this was the case as he could have then be more suspected of betrayal if the police did not arrive and arrest his men. Tessio was in charge of protecting the Don and no other matetr was more important than that.

I couldn't agree more.

Impeccable logic Don Cardi

McCluskey and company were sloppy. They missed their window of opportunity so snuff out the Don in the hopsital before Michael arrived.

McCluskey and company were sloppy. They missed their window of opportunity so snuff out the Don in the hopsital before Michael arrived.

Once again a testiment to the efficency brought on by a simple invention called the cellular phone

Even though we all love the Corleones. We must give Barzini credit for his three involvment to injure the Corleone family.
1. Barzini used Paulie to hurt the Don because of his refusal to enter the narcotics business.
2. Barzini approaching Carlo Rizzi to kill Sonny (knowing he would help him since SOnny beat his ass!).
3. For making a deal with Tessio(AND I BELIEVE TESSIO BECAME A TRAITOR BECAUSE MICHAEL WOULD NOT LET CLEMENZA AND HIM BREAK OFF FROM THE FAMILY AND RUN THEIR OWN FAMILY THEY WAY THEY WANTED TOO.)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
I BELIEVE THAT IS WHY TESSIO BECAME A TRAITOR
BUT JUST FOR A COUNT...
WHO THINKS BARZINI PLANNED THIS ALL FROM THE VERY BEGINNING AND CARLO AND TESSIO WERE IN IT SINCE THE SHOOTING OF THE DON?????

Tessio was NOT in it from the shooting of the Don. Tessio was a loyal soldier to Vito, and Tessio was the one who planted the Gun in the Restaurant for Michael, and was the one who picked Mike up after the shooting. Tessio became a traitor because he did NOT think that Michael was going to be a strong Don like Vito. Tessio pleaded with Mike to do something being that Barzini was pushing them around. Tessio shows his discontempt for Mike by not listening to him and turning to Vito asking him to let him form his own family. Once Vito replied that Michael was in charge, I believe at that very moment Tessio realized that he needed to make a backup plan "just in case" and start an alliance with Barzini. Like Michael said, it was the smart move because Tessio thought that once Vito was gone, Mike was going to get pushed under by the other families. This was all part of Vito and Michael's plan, to appear weak to the others, and Tessio fell for it also. There is no way that Tessio turned on Vito early.


Don Cardi

Nice summary of Barzini's actions. I would agree he was a great operator and manipulator.

Personally I see his manipulation of Tessio and Carlo as just opportunisitic, he really just used them and aligned their feeling and motives to acheive his goals. Both of them were just in it for themselves, ultimatly and this shakiness was what made them so easily manipulated by Barzini.

I know this is just a movie and anything can happen just because the writers write it that way But.....

In some ways Michael and Vito forced Tessio/ or Clemenza to jump ship. Why you ask, well, if they would have kept them in the loop and explained their plans to whack the crap out of everyone once their guard was down then they would have stayed loyal worked hard and played along knowing that they would have been taken care of and not left behind. They were almost forced to try something to stay on top for what they saw around them going on.
You have to wonder why Vito would not keep his long time friends/ partners and capos up to speed. At this point there was no reason to not trust his two long time key people. They spent many years together and went thru all kinds of good and bad times. It was Michael and Vito's decisions to keep them shut out that causes Tessio to look elsewhere.

Before you speak of the possible problem of turncoats if to many know the plan, what makes you think that someone in the newly built regime wouldn't have sold out the plan to get ahead with the family rivals. These were fairly new to the family when you think of how long Tessio and Clemanza were with the family. After all like Michael tells Tom, they are all business people.

You kind of have to wonder who's idea, Michael or Vito- it was to cut the two old Capos out? Maybe they were so worried about someone that their own actions drove it to happen.