When Michael was at Hyman Roth's b-day party on the deck and he was commenting about the car explosion of the police captin and rebel. Hymon Roth look down at his cake with a look of concern or uneasiness with Michael's story. Than he excused himself w/Michael and made the remark about the money and talking to him later in private.

What did Michael say or what was he referring to that put up Hymon Roth's guard with him and made him talk to Mike off to the side so quickly?

Well from a business standpoint the rebel thing was a huge concern for Michael and at that time, there was the potential for some huge political and economic stablity that was realized on New Year's eve of that year when Castro took power. So on that level Michael's concern was well justified, he was using this also as a front to delay the deal so he could have more time to figure out if Roth was the one who ordered the hit.

Roth's ultimate plan was to get Michael in as a partner and his investment of 2 million would secure this. But Roth out of greed and a misplaced arrogence and sense of immortality also wanted Michael out of the way due to his burgeoning power. So the plan was get Michael to invest and then hit him. He thought almsot certainly Michael would put his money into the venture, so I think the pensivness of all of this is about the money because Michael would have been hit regardless of the money being given or not. Of course with the influence and power of Michael, had the Roth's business deal been legitamite there would most likely be an equal level of nervousness of the part of Roth if Michael was thinking of backing out.

It took me many years and many times viewing this scene to begin to figure it out. Perhaps upon review, our beloved Turnbull will let us know if I've got it right or at least have begun to touch upon the intent.

When Michael relays that incident with the rebels, he's telling the story to all but specifically speaking to Roth. While he & Johnny Ola have been blowing off the rebels, Michael may see potential in their cause. (Also, Michael knows that Roth has already tried to kill him and will again make an attempt on his life after he's gotten that $2million in his hands.)

Since Roth listens intently, goes along with Michael's game and suspiciously asks, "What does that tell you?"...he may be giving Michael a signal that he knows what he's getting at. Roth probably wasn't planning to bring up the $2m right there in front of the other businessmen...but since Michael literally blows open the subject of possible trouble on the horizon, that may be what compels Roth to take him aside.

The next scene elaborates on this with Roth's very first line: "I wouldn't want it to get around that you held back the money because you had second thoughts about the rebels."

Frankly, I don't thing Michael EVER intends to hand over the $2m to Roth; having Fredo fly in with it may just be cosmetic.

Well Turnbull...???

Apple

Kudos, Apple, especially in asserting that Michael never intented to turn over the $2 million! Just to elaborate on your thoughts:

Michael had been horning in on Roth's gambling empire ever since he returned from Sicily. Roth pretended to want Michael to be the heir-apparent to relax Michael. He aimed to have Michael killed at Anthony's party because Pentangeli was there, and would make the perfect fall-guy. When that failed, Roth improvised brilliantly: he lured Michael to Havana with the promise of inheriting Roth's Cuban empire for a mere $2 million "gift to the President." Since Roth was the most powerful gringo in Havana, he could have his pal Batista swat Michael like a fly. The birthday party sham was a way for Roth to build an alibi when Michael went missing: "Hey, I loved the kid like my son--just ask all those thugs who were at my birthday party and who witnessed me anointing him as my successor."
Michael knew all of this. In an act of cool daring, he walked into the mortal danger of Roth's Havana to buy time to find out who the traitor was in his family. The one thing he had going for him: the promise of the $2 million. Roth wouldn't move to have Michael whacked until the $2 million was in hand.
Now to get to the point (and I'm sure you wish I would) : The bit about the rebels, which Michael probably believed, provided him with another excuse to keep stalling to buy time. Roth calling him aside was a show of greedy impatience by Roth, as if to say, "Come on, already--cough up the money so I can have you whacked and pocket the money." Michael was thus forcing Roth to show his hand. He forced Roth's hand again when, even after Fredo brought the money, he said he just wanted to wait--which occasioned Roth's famous soliloquey that made him show his anger about Michael's whacking of Moe Green.
One more thought: he had Fredo bring the $2 million to the island, but didn't give it to Roth, to keep whetting Roth's appetite (and thus buying more time), and to test Fredo. I don't think Michael truly thought of Fredo as his #1 suspect at that point, but I don't think he'd totally ruled out Fredo, either. The rest, as they say, is history.

HOOWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Just a further thought about Michael asking Roth who order the hit on Pentangelli. Both Roth & Ola seemed truly taken aback by this, it virtually came from out of nowhere. By bringing it up, was Michael AGAIN forcing Roth to show his hand?

And is Roth's 'Moe Green/Nothing to do with business/Going in to take a nap...' monologue an indication that he's no longer counting on the 2M, has grown weary of Michael's cat & mouse game is is pretty much saying...'Look, kid either put up or shut up you're a dead man anyway and I can't wait until all this is over...' ???

Best,
Apple

ps - thanks especially, Turnbull for the tidbit about the birthday party being Roth's alibi...THAT revelation had not yet dawned on me!!

If curious how Mike planned to do this if the traitor wasnt Fredo....
Fredo's big mouth was what got him caught, but had the traitor been Neri or Hagen or anyone else Michael would have taken a large risk for nothing.
He must have been about 90% confident it was Fredo to stick around Roth in Havana for so long

It is simple, Michael wasn't giving him the two million because he may have to whack him and it is hard to get two million back from a dead guy!

Michael might have been confident about Fredo being the traitor, but I doubt it. I think he had a time limit on how much time he could spend in Havana safely. That's why he told Fredo, "I've already made my plans: Hyman Roth will never see the New Year." Michael knew he had to whack Roth whether or not he found out who the traitor was.
Right, fathersson: The $2M was bait. No way did Michael have any plan to give Roth the $2M.

So the whole reason Roth wanted Micheal dead was because he was moving in on his Havana operation? I always thought it was because he clipped Greene, (The big emphasis on the speech given by Roth) or was it a combination of both?

You asked why Roth led Michael away so fast? If someone has already answered this ignore me but if the other guys at the party thought about what he said, about the rebels having a chance at winning, they might pull thier money out too, leaving Roth with nothing.

Not just Havana. Roth and Vito were partners, but only in the Prohibition-era booze business, as Roth frequently reminds Michael. But Michael had been moving in on Roth's Western gaming empire even before Vito died. The first business deal we saw Michael in when he returned from Sicily was to try to buy Moe Green out of his Vegas hotel; then he whacked Moe when he refused. By 1958, when GFII picks up, Michael had moved his entire operation to Nevada, owned or controlled three hotels, was about to force Meyer Klingman out of another hotel that Roth secretly owned with the Lakeville Road boys, and obviously had designs on Roth's Havana holdings. Small wonder Roth felt threatened. And, probably, Michael's ordering of Moe Green's assassination also weighed on Roth's plan to whack Michael, though I doubt it was the main motivation.

He was honing in on his western gambling operation as already elaborated upon by the brilliantly perceptive Turnbull. In terms of the Moe Greene thing, this was a sort of show of Roth's hand and a villification of him in terms of the hit on Pentangeli. He basically said 'I didnt' care about YOU hitting my bud Moe, so you shouldnt' care about ME hitting Pentangeli'. This is also an indication of a sore spot between Roth and Michael and a loose indication of Michael's infiltration into Roth's western gambling territory.

Thank you all for your responses especially Turnbull and Apple.

yea thanks, now it all makes alittle more sense.

according to Turnbull's first post in this thread, Roth was an IDIOT! and I do agree with TB.
and I always thought of Roth as the biggest enemy the Corleone family had fought against.

I said Roth was an idiot???? No way! Roth was Michael's most formidable enemy, a brilliant strategist and improviser. But Michael was smarter.

I think what Tony is elaborating upon is the fact that Roth's error was his insistance on the money and the fact that he allowed his hand to be forced by Michael.

Naturally only a handful of opportunities to assassination someone as protected as Michael would ever present themselves, but in this case, Roth definatly allowed greed to get the better of him and this tiped his hat a bit to give Michael the clear advantage.

TB, you really didn't say it, that's what I thought after reading your post.

Well, I think it was really a battle between two very cunning guys, but the smarter guy (Michael) won. Still, Roth had yet another cunning move to pull: using Questad and the Senate Committee to nearly trap Michael into five counts of perjury. But then Michael outsmarted him yet again by reachng for Vincenzo. That's the stuff that makes GFII such a triumph!