2 registered members (m2w, 1 invisible),
448
guests, and 33
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums21
Topics43,345
Posts1,086,170
Members10,381
|
Most Online1,254 Mar 13th, 2025
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16232
07/11/04 12:47 AM
07/11/04 12:47 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
|

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
|
Welcome, Don Cannoli. Good question! Among the possibilities: --Fredo, at the Presidential palace, skulked off. Michael asks him where he's going and Fredo says, "I'm gonna get me a real drink..." Perhaps Fredo went off to find a phone to call a Cuban official whom he might have met previously, to warn of Michael's plan to kill Roth, and to add urgency because Roth hadn't shown at the palace. In the very next scene, we see the elite-looking military double-time to Roth's hospital room and shoot the bodyguard, so perhaps there's a connection. --Roth's wife, after leaving the hospital, probably returned to their hotel suite. She would have discovered Johnny Ola's body and, suspecting more foul play, called one of Roth's Cuban government pals to set the military guard into action. --Batista (the President of Cuba), knowing that his government was about to crumble, in a last act of generousity toward his old friend and associate from Florida, dispatched the military to the hospital to make sure that Roth got out ok.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16233
07/11/04 06:22 AM
07/11/04 06:22 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
|
RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
|
As usual when this topic comes up, I can only add the following:
While I really don't have a theory which I'm crazy about (Turnbull's #2 or #3 are OK, I guess), I don't believe that it was Fredo's doing.
At that point, the best thing in the world for him would be to have Roth and Ola dead, taking what he thought was the secret of his betrayal with them. Why help try to keep either alive?
"Difficult....not impossible"
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16235
07/11/04 12:20 PM
07/11/04 12:20 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
|

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
|
Logically, plawrence and afsaneh are right: Since Fredo previously told Johnny Ola that he was pissed off and wouldn't cooperate further, he'd have no logical incentive to call the Cuban authorities to rescue Roth. Logically, a dead Roth was a Roth who couldn't rat out Fredo's betrayal. But logic may have had nothing to do with Fredo's behavior. He was "weak and stupid," as Michael said earlier. A combination of panic and resentment of his brother may have pushed Fredo to try to rescue Roth. I'm not in love with that theory, either--I just think it's possible. The Trilogy has many examples of stupid, weak people behaving illogically. Did Carlo really think that Michael wouldn't figure out the connection between his beating Connie and Sonny's assassination? Did Paulie Gatto think that no one would make a connection between his absence and the attempt on Vito's life? Afsaneh: Very interesting point about Fredo possibly having realized his fatal slip of the tongue before the kiss of death. I doubt it, but it could be!
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16237
07/11/04 08:19 PM
07/11/04 08:19 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
|
RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
|
Originally posted by Turnbull: Afsaneh: Very interesting point about Fredo possibly having realized his fatal slip of the tongue before the kiss of death. I doubt it, but it could be! I don't think so, either. Fredo was good and drunk and babbling away by the time the group got to the Superman show. He never knew he had given himself away.
"Difficult....not impossible"
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16238
07/11/04 09:22 PM
07/11/04 09:22 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 152 Sicily, NYC
Santino Felice
Made Member
|
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 152
Sicily, NYC
|
yea plawrence you got a good point there
"Well you just do what I tell you to do! Goddamn it! If I had a wartime consiglieri -- a Sicilian -- I wouldn't be in this shape! Pop had Genco -- look what I got." - Sonny Corleone
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16239
07/12/04 05:25 AM
07/12/04 05:25 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 456 sthlm, Sweden
Alberto_Neri
Capo
|
Capo
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 456
sthlm, Sweden
|
I think that the Fredo-option is the most likely one. First because this is the only alternative that we are given hints for, like the real drink scene.
And while reading this thread, another thing came to my mind. It is true that Fredo didnt want anything to do with Johnny Ola and Roth after the Tahoe assasination attempt. But remember that Fredo knew that they got Pentangeli. This could mean that he had been further cooperating with them. Or maybe they used him again without his knowledge, because after all, he was weak and stupid...
"After all, we're not communists" - Barzini
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16240
07/12/04 10:30 AM
07/12/04 10:30 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
|
RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
|
Originally posted by Alberto_Neri: remember that Fredo knew that they got Pentangeli. This could mean that he had been further cooperating with them. Very good point. He also knew abouth the Senate lawyer, Questadt, being on Roth's payroll.
"Difficult....not impossible"
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16241
07/12/04 10:38 AM
07/12/04 10:38 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
|

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
|
Originally posted by Alberto_Neri: I think that the Fredo-option is the most likely one. First because this is the only alternative that we are given hints for, like the real drink scene.
And while reading this thread, another thing came to my mind. It is true that Fredo didnt want anything to do with Johnny Ola and Roth after the Tahoe assasination attempt. But remember that Fredo knew that they got Pentangeli. This could mean that he had been further cooperating with them. Or maybe they used him again without his knowledge, because after all, he was weak and stupid... Originally posted by plawrence: Very good point. He also knew abouth the Senate lawyer, Questadt, being on Roth's payroll. Perhaps. But by the time Fredo told Michael, "They got Pentangeli..." Michael and everyone else knew Pentangeli had survived. There's no indication that Fredo knew that Pentangeli had survived, and was in government custody, before Michael found out. It does seem that Michael might not have known that the Senate lawyer, Questadt, was on Roth's payroll before Fredo told him. Could be that Roth and/or Ola told Fredo about Questadt before Fredo got disillusioned with them.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16245
07/15/04 12:31 AM
07/15/04 12:31 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
|

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
|
Originally posted by Marcos: As he's about to smother Roth, one of the nurse types seems to be leading the military people into the room. In other words, she spotted him. Seemed to me, the nurse was enjoying herself and ignoring Roth until she saw the military marching down the coridor double-time. Then she came to attention. You'd think that Michael's bodyguard, with his heavy black hat, heavy black sweater, and wilted, mangy flowers, would stand out like a sore thumb in that hospital. But it was fun-loving Cuba on New Year's Eve...
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
|
|
|
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit?
#16246
07/15/04 01:01 AM
07/15/04 01:01 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 68 NY
Mickey
Button
|
Button
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 68
NY
|
Ya know, I honestly can't argue with any of these theories. However, there is one question that still remains unanswered: Where WAS Fredo going? It's obvious he wasn't really going to get himself a real drink - he was up to something.
There are 2 things about that scene that don't make sense: Where was Fredo going, and where did the military guys come from? It just seems logical to me to put 2 and 2 together and say that Fredo alerted them.
When you think about it, though, the theory that has the president sending an escort to get Roth out safely makes the most sense.
You straightened my brother out?
|
|
|
|