What's likely about the Rocco theory? Where's the evidence, or even the inference that he was involved?

I don't think it's important to know WHO the assasins were. I think we're told they were just hired guns. And it's fairly obvious (at least to me) that it was Roth who ordered it. (Fredo: "I didn't know it was going to be a hit", plus his involvement with Roth & Ola: "You guys got me in enough trouble already").

But the question remains: Who killed the assasins?
If it was Rocco, there would have had to of been witnesses-there were guards and such running around all over the compund after the shooting.

Michael says to Tom something like "Unless I'm mistaken, they're dead already, killed by someone inside the family" Who does he have in mind?

Also, I re-posted this to see what some of the newer members thought about this question. It hasn't been raised in a while and I figured that most newbies don't go reading topics from 2-3 months ago.

Consider this my friends,

Michael was a brilliant man, especially in his ability to anticipate events. Remember the advice the Don gave him in GFI while they were talking in the back yard about checking the phone calls that go in and out of the house because, "it could be anybody...you never know" One would believe that Michael utilized all the knowledge his dad passed on to him throughout his life. With that in mind:

What if it was Michael that actually "staged" a hit on himself to throw everyone off. After all, he knew someone close to the family was a traitor. All of their people were "businessmen" as he told Tom, and with that, "anything's possible" So Michael stages a hit on himself which could, 1, make the traitor extremely nervous about their relationship with Michael's enemy since the hit wasn't discussed, and/or 2, maybe encourage his enemies to start aligning together to discuss who actually wanted him dead and who attempted it. These types of meetings would surely get back to Michael, such as all seemingly pertinent information did. If girl with no family would be sacrificed for the advancement of Michael's gain (Senator Geary's hooker), surely two unkown buttons out of New York would suffice in the ultimate plan of flushing out and eliminating a traitor.

Oh, I almost forgot, it was Al Neri who killed the "assassins"

"What if it was Michael that actually "staged" a hit on himself to throw everyone off"





.

1) Michael didin't think there was a traitor in the family until AFTER the hit attempt

2) In that scenario, what were Fredo's associations with Ola & Roth all about?

3) And who killed the hitmen in that scenario? Someone else would have had to have been in on Michael's "plot"

4) Much too risky. Bullets flying all over his bedroom where his wife sleeps and his children come to play with their toys

Hi,
I believe it was Johnny Ola who killed the hitmen at the compound.

Paul

Hey C.D.,

I'm not dumb, like you think. I'm smart and I want respect!

Hey C.D.,

I'm not dumb, like you think. I'm smart and I want respect!

Hey C.D.,

I'm not dumb, like you think. I'm smart and I want respect!

Ola arrives by boat. There is a reference by Michael to getting "Johnny's men something to eat", so we know he didn't come alone. But the dead guys couldn't have been Ola's men, 'cause they would have been recognized from earlier in the day. And presumably Ola and his men left the way they came. I don't think he stayed behind (besides, he looked a little old and soft to be going around killing hired killers, one against two), and even if it was him, how did he get away?
Seconds after the shots were fired, the whole compiund was on lockdown.

I guess years from now I'll still be shooting down these theories until I find one I can live with.

If I seem a litle crazed about this, it's only because I think the question is SO important because of the statement Michael makes to Tom, to the effect "Unless I"m mistaken, they're (the assasins) dead already... killed by someone inside". Who did Michael think that was? Or even if he had no idea at that point, assuming he was right, who was it? Again, surely not Fredo.

And this stone in my shoe has been bothering me for 30 years

Time to take the boat out and catch the big one...Hail Mary full of Grace....

It was always my opinion that the hitmen killed themselves. I have heard many cases where the assasins would execute themselves after a killing is performed so that if the victim survived, there was no way on finding out who ordered it. Just a thought

By slitting their own throats?

plawrence, you made several good points, it would have to had been someone in the inner circle to have made it into mike's bedroom to open the curtains and not arouse any suspicions and not be stopped and questioned. but i believe that when mike said to tom that vito told him "to think as those around you think" he knew how everyone around him would react to the shooting and how he could manipulate that to his advantage. i have no doubt that neri and rocco were 100 % loyal to mike or else rocco would not have shot roth in the airport knowing that he was also going to end up dead shortly afterwards. also, how did rocco get that limp when he showed up and was speaking to mike ? i believe you brought up a point earlier in another post that the assasins were brought onto the estate in one of the catering truck and dropped off after the reception or the guests left. mike had no reason to doubt fredo until the scene in havana when he revealed himself.

I think after a few months, the best theory is still Anthony.
I think it would have been too suspicous for Fredo to be out of the house. Couldn't have been him.
More than likely Rocco - after Michael sends him out. Does Rocco re-appear in the movie? I'm trying to remember...
OR - it could have been Johnny Fontaine, with greasy hair and olive oil charm, stumbling around the woods drunk, about to sexually attack the assasins - realizes his mistake (or not) and kills them out of embarassment!

Wow, did this thread ever bring back personal memories.

The original post was the first one I ever made here, and after reading some of the responses from 3+ years ago, I see that some things haven't changed.

We had a nice 3 year period for contemplation on the matter.

To go off topic a little bit, how did Rocco know that the assasins were hired out of New York??

Hi Mignon. I don't really have a theory of my own about that, but I can point to one from an earlier thread from July, 2004: A GF II Question That\'s been Killing Me . (Link provided by plawrence in another recent topic).

First, some people noted that Rocco didn't actually make that comment; one of the other buttonmen did. (I checked the script on J Geoff's site and that is indeed the case.)

Second, dontomasso posted that the buttonman employed the deductive reasoning often found in Sherlock Holmes stories: " ... by observing clothing, haircuts, etc., you can tell a lot about someone. Their hats, shoes, etc., may have easily led a careful and intelligent observer to decude where these would be assassins came from."

That sounds reasonable. The witnesses (Michael, Tom, Rocco, etc.) probably recognized this too, or else one of them would have remarked, "What makes you think that?" Also, if that button man did recognize the dead gunmen AND he was in on the plot to kill Michael, he would have kept his mouth shut and not revealed any opinion on their origins or identity.

It was just a passing observation and we're not meant to infer any further significance from it. At least that's what I think ... until someone sways me with a better argument otherwise.

Hi Cristina-

Thanks alot I really appreciate all that.

As we learned in Cuba, people do make slips. Fredo slips while they are at the club didn't he? This time things aren't so crazy as they were after the hit. Michael caught the words said.

Karl

Yes, but --

1. Fredo was quite drunk
2. Fredo was quite stupid

I couldn't resist

Now I feel guilty about calling Fredo "stupid," as that's an adjective I don't like to apply. But his own brother described him as such, so I guess I could say I'm just quoting his brother. But actually, Fredo is not as keenly intelligent as others in his family; and his slip up was quite an absent-minded and unthinking thing to do.

I was going through some old topics from the past, and thought that I would revive this one for old time's sake, and more importantly for those new members who never had the privaledge of reading Paul's insightful and humorous posts.







Don Cardi

Not being here at the time he joined I remember going back to this post for some reason one night when we were talking, I think he wanted to point out to me his first post on the board, I don't remember why though.

Looks like this same thread also includes one of Sicilian Babe's first posts, too!

Back in the old days, ay, Don Geoff?? When we didn't need "can o peas" to eat when we hung out together, when we drank from a hose (what is up with that, anyway?) and tried to get the band to play a Tarantella.

I said all along that it was the landscaper, Ramolo.

I'll go on record and say that Roth/Ola told Fredo to open the drapes so the assassins could get a clear look at what they were shooting. That they simply wanted to scare the hell outta Mike and not actually kill or injure him. Fredo believed them

Obviously Fredo did not kill the assassins, and here is where Rocco comes into this picture. http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...ge=1#Post340717

EDIT #1--Roth wanted Mike to think it was Frankie who TRIED to whack him, thus Mike takes out Frankie saving Roth the trouble.

Also, the shooting scene has always baffled me. The assassin can see Mike and Mike sees him. Yet the assassin can't get a single shot at Mike? As Mike is crawling toward the bed 4 or 5 bullets hit the mirror directly above his head, and then then the fire curiously shifts away from Mike to above the headboard which seems strange since the assassin can see that MIke is clearly on the floor. Perhaps a very typical Hollywood device that we have seen in almost every movie made where the good guy narrowly dodges the bullets. Not likely in real life, but thats the movies. [EDIT]

(I will edit this post/theory from time to time )

Your theory is logically plausible (although it seems like a pretty high-risk way to scare someone you don't want to kill or injure) but I don't think it makes sense in the context of the film.

I could list several reasons why, but before I do can you elaborate on why you believe they didn't really want to kill Michael, and what they felt they would have gained by scaring him? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument.

Well we are just throwing out theories here of course, but there could be several reasons Roth might want to scare Mike and not kill him. I edited my above post to include the possibility of Roth wanting Mike to think it was Frankie who ordered the 'hit,' thus Mike whacks Frankie saving Roth the trouble. There are several others including the $2million that Mike brings on his death ride to Havana.