No!!

Yes!!

Unborn babies have rights in both situations. But in the abortion scenario, the mother's rights take priority. The baby is a morally innocent party - its rights are not taken away as some kind of putative "punishment". But there are cases where morally innocent agents may have their rights overriden - another example would be the case of an innocent person hypnotized into killing another person - that other would have the right to defend himself, even at the expense of the innocent person in the trance.

Of course this is all a matter of moral philosophy - whether you agree or not with the morality, it is possible to argue that in vitro babies have rights and still be pro-choice.

Like an aborted fetus, I think this thread is both dead and useless...or am I the only one?

What, because no-one laughed at your hilarious "cutting to the point" gag? Or because it turned into a discussion about moral philosophy?

It's strange this is brought up. I'm not sure how, but I remember that a conversation about this (regarding a differant incident with a similar situation) came up between myself and my Aunt once.

Now, this about that for a second... Several cases involving this type of deal; pretty sick once you evaluate it.

looking for a safe stance on abortion?


me neither.

That made my day.

I forgot about that shirt from Maddox's site.

What I wonder..why is it that we are so worried about fetuses' survival...either because of the "Culture of Life" or Human Rights or whatever the hell...but as soon as that fetus pops out and becomes a human being that people are quite worried to keep alive, they no longer become of interest or worry. C'mon, you know what I'm talking about.

Dr. Lucy - Well, a moral debate that grew out of an unrelated topic? Oh and go see a real medical doctor. I think your funny bone may have been damaged of sorts.

I am a real medical doctor. Only Lucy's problem wasn't with her funny bone ... :p :p

Want to be a smartass? This same shit would occur more often if we would outlaw abortion. At least when it's in the clinic, there are professions to get the job done cleanly and successfully. I don't believe the woman should have a choice, but I don't want to see babies being mutilated in some guy's bathtub with a pair of tweezers and a fuckin chainsaw. Sometimes you got to take the bad, and see which is worse. It's amazing how blind and stupid can be when it comes to issues like this because they have their "morals" clouding their judgment, making them sound naive. Oh yeah, if we overrule Roe v Wade, suddenly no one will even think about having an abortion. Errr! Wrong!

What is there not to understand? Lets say the mother decides she doesn't want the baby but has it anyway. First off, our orphanages would be overrun with unwanted children. We'd get children with even more problems, such as neglect (which leads to social/psychological disorders) or growing up without parents (the same parents which smoked crank while the baby was still in the womb). These same children will be sent to a public school, but as always, we would blame our teachers for the disfunction in our children's lives. Not the actions passed by the church. Or... I meant.. the GOP and government.

Why is it that some people care about fetuses, but kicks unwanted kids onto the curbs of society? Really, it sounds like a pretty damn weird David Cronenberg movie or something.