Even Joe's own son, Anthony Colombo, stated that his personal gut feelings was that the FBI was behind the conspiracy to shoot his father.

But he made sure to make those explosive allegations at the very end of his life. He was already sick, and he didn't give a fuck anymore.

Notice that he never dared spout that while he was still young, and active in the streets. For fear of reprisal from the feds.... Or worse!!

He and his entire personal blood family were spooked by what happened to his dad for speaking out against the FBI. Neither he, brother Joe Jr., brother Vincent, his sisters or mom ever dared speak out the way he did at the end..... they all kept their feelings deep in their belly. Why??

THAT, in and of itself, showed you where things were REALLY at. They shit their pants over that reality.

and not 1 Colombo member, out of over 150 made guys at that time. REALLY knew what was what. But under their breath, more than one whispered the same thing.

That they felt it was the Federal Bureau of Investigation.... Period!

Following the Sicilian mafia and Italy in general since the late 80s I do believe in conspiracies and cover-ups but not the far-fetched crazy ones.

Someone else's feelings aren't evidence though. Anthony Colombo may feel whatever way he wants about this, that or the other thing - just because he was the victim's son doesn't give him any greater insight into who committed the crime - as a matter of fact, it presents the very real risk that he is too close to the subject matter to review it objectively and is too prone to confirmation bias.

Alphonse D'Arco wrote in his book about how he and fellow mobsters believed the FBI had the power to give them cancer. That's an absurd thought (at least I think so). It's a perfect example of just how somebody can believe something without it having any basis in fact.

It's not like we don't know who actually shot Colombo - what was Jerome Johnson's connection to the government? Would the government really get involved with a low level thug like that and trust him to carry out a mission of such importance to them? (And why would it have been that important in the first place to kill Joe Colombo? His league may well have been a pain in the ass, but at that time was it any worse than massive anti-Vietnam demonstrations or the Black Panthers, for example?)

Also - when Johnson failed to actually kill Colombo, why was another agent not dispatched to finish the job in case Colombo somehow came out of his coma?

And with Colombo then out of the way, who did kill Gallo subsequently? Everyone likes to lay a claim of responsibility to it but nobody for sure seems to know who did it, much like the murder of Colombo himself as you've pointed out.

Joe Colombo was involved in the underworld and ergo by definition had countless enemies. It is not a great leap to suggest that a mob boss' life is always somewhat in danger. From Masseria to Anastasia to Galante to Castellano that is a known occupational hazard of that life.

If the government had wanted him dead that badly and could succeed so easily in doing so without leaving the slightest bit of evidence....then how did they fail to convict John Gotti over and over? For that matter why did they not simply kill him too? Incidentally...I think Gotti had the deck stacked against him in his last trial - the DA with the FBI didn't fight a completely fair fight but they certainly didn't arrange for his death.

I don't agree with your assessment East side, or your take on it. But thats what makes horse races as they say. Everybody picks the horse they wanna go with.

But I respect your right to think the way you do.

Watch your patronizing tone, NYM. You're not the last word on this subject,

What I said was not meant to be "patronizing" at all. And I also don't claim to be the "last word" as you say on the Mafia. Who is? I don't think any one person could possibly have all the knowledge there is to glean about traditional organized crime. Its way too vast a subject. Do you agree?

It's a matter of semantics I think. The statements I made are meant for us all. Myself included. If "we" have learned anything at all about the Mafia, with all the reading we've done over the years, "we" know that the mob doesn't kill that way....does that read a bit better? Lol

If "we" step back and clear "our" heads of any preconceived notions "we'" have, of the things that we may have read of the Colombo shooting, instead of taking them for granted as gospel, We can open up our minds to the very real possibilities of it not having been Joe Gallo at all who committed this shooting.

And IMO the facts, the tidbits we do indeed know about the situation, start to fall into place and point to a conspiracy..... and not from the "mob" per, se I might add.

Strictly speaking only about the JFK hit,I feel that there is sufficient evidence to support the fact fact that Oswald was the only shooter,and that he acted alone. However, just like eastsideofvan, at one time I supported the conspiracy theory. After researching and separating actual evidence from speculation I revised my opinion.He mentioned a great source: Bugliosi's book "Reclaiming History" I would strongly urge people to pick up a copy. As he mentioned it is a ponderous read (over 1500 pages),but it is the most thoroughly researched and unbiased account I've ever seen. Bugliosi provides citations from a number of sources,copies of actual documents,and independently verifiable accounts of the characters,background,and related events surrounding that day. He also methodically debunks virtually every common conspiracy theory with the same non-biased approach. I'm not claiming that my version is right or wrong,but I'll wager that if a person is in the "conspiracy corner",this book may well make them rethink their position. PS. I lucked out and got a copy on clearance at 1/2 price books, but once I finished it I would have gladly paid full price.

Kennedy was whacked by the cabal or secret government, that's my position. No book can change my mind, but glad you read a great cover-up.

And which cabal or secret government does your evidence point to ?
I'm always looking for another well researched opinion.so please feel free to share yours.

There's already enough material out there that points to a conspiracy, why would I bother so many have already done better than I could. Do your research, if you don't see by now everything is controlled, then there isn't any hope. Put on your They Live shades and wake up to the truth, it's all around you.

Thanks for the recommendation. It's been a while since I read something on Kennedy. Was going to get a kindle version (better price than 115 bucks....lol) but just found a print version at thriftbooks. Looking forward to reading it especially considering I'm still a supporter of the conspiracy theory. I'm like those memes you see "change my mind"...lol.....~LisaB

Such cabals definitely exist in Italy, and they exist because of America...

How do you figure it's because of America?

Maybe it is not proven Phil Rossillo shot Johnson but it's pretty much a given from what I have read. Not only is it in the Scarpa files but it's in other documents about wiseguys commenting on how that were awed about Chubby shooting this guy with the cops right there. It's primarily why Chubby got his button

DillyDolly,my intention is not to engage in a disrespectful discussion with you,and for my part,I apologize if I became defensive or even offensive.

I did mention that at one time,I subscribed to the conspiracy theory. Then as I began to do further research,making sure to keep an open mind and to draw conclusions based on what I could verify independently ,My position changed.

The Bugliosi book satisfied many of my outstanding questions and I only mentioned it because I think that it is a landmark work on the subject. Of course anyone is free to agree or disagree, but would it really be a bad idea to at least read it first? You may still feel the way you do,and I respect that. I only put it out there because I believe that in a search for truth, the more info we have access to,the better we can justify our position.

If you get the book,and decide that it's a load of crap,suitable only for target practice,then so be it. You've made an informed decision based on actual knowledge. Regardless of what opinion you may have of the book,I will respect your right to hold that opinion. I just thought that it would be a good resource and only put it out there for that purpose. I do not claim that I am absolutely right,but I have my own strongly held opinion,just as (I'm sure) almost everyone has.

I would actually make a distinction...... I don't think the WHOLE GOVERNMENT was behind these plots. Some kind of radical faction maybe, a portion of government officials/intelligence people.

No disrespect lol, I respect everyone here and open to all theories.

I will admit that the book is a ponderous read,and not something you can knock off quickly,but if you find the time,it is absolutely worth it, especially for someone like yourself who is so passionate about research. I would love to see you post your thoughts after you finish it. Given the size of the book,it may be a little while,but I ain't goin' nowhere. Hope you enjoy it.

I usually pull for the outlaw I don't give much praise to police or prosecutors but Bugliosi won convictions on 105 out of 106 felony cases in his years as LA county DA including Manson.Great writer as well.i have read his OJ book,Helter Skelter and the book mentioned above.Great read

1) Colombo was killed by calculations by Anthony Abbatemarco, Jerome Johnson lived above a place that Abbatemarco frequented, and yes it was a Gambino place.
2 Jerome Johnson was killed by Phil "Chubby" Rossillo in front of the cops and nothing happened to Rossillo that he became a legend for it.
3) Joe "Crazy Joe" Gallo was killed by Carmine DiBiase, and the LoCicero brothers, along with some others on orders form Joe Yacovelli. Everyone is dead now except for Frank LoCicero who might still be kicking but he is in his 90s.

Yes I do agree with you that it probably was Chubby who shot Johnson. He was a very close friend of Joe's son Anthony, and he was right there when it happened.

But even if it was Chubby, we have to remember that Rossillo was a Colombo associate who was loyal to the Family. He wouldn't have been involved in any "government plot." For that matter, neither would have any other mob guys. The government wouldn't have needed to bring them into anything, if in fact they chose to do it. The had the capabilities on their own. So for me at least, Chubby shooting Johnson doesn't change a thing. Thats what he was supposed to do if he's carrying a gun and you see some guy shoot your boss. So what he did by capping Johnson doesn't negate the government plot theory at all.

Also, as Cabrini said, I too don't believe it was the entire U.S. government, or even the entire FBI for that matter. These type of plots are usually carried out by small rogue elements, or "factions" if you will. Maybe, probably, under direct orders from the hierarchy such as Hoover himself, of another top official.

They exist in many countries around the world, in Italy the most famous case is Propaganda Due. (better known as P2) a Masonic lodge belonging to the Grand Orient of Italy (GOI). It was founded in 1877 with the name of Masonic Propaganda, in the period of its management by the entrepreneur Licio Gelli it assumed deviated forms with respect to the statutes of the Freemasonry and became subversive towards the Italian legal order. The P2 was suspended by the GOI on 26 July 1976; subsequently, the parliamentary commission of inquiry into the P2 Masonic lodge under the presidency of Minister Tina Anselmi concluded the P2 case by denouncing the lodge as a real "criminal organization" and "subversive". It was dissolved with a special law, the n. 17 of 25 January 1982.

Chubby definitely wasn't working with the government. He was a bodyguard. Probably told a million times if somebody shoots at Colombo to take them out immediately. No hesitation. He just did his job. Not smart with a dozen cops right there but he got away with it in the chaos somehow.

If you were the government would you do it this way? I wouldn't. Id snipe him from a distance completely unseen. They'd think it was the Gallo's either way.

The more I think about this the more I think it was Joey Gallo. But that being said, it's not totally impossible it was the FBI. Unlikely, but not impossible. Law enforcement doesn't like "uppity" ethnic types who demand their rights. It's not likely though, because most people who die in the custody of law enforcement are shot while pulled over, or die in jail of asphyxiation that is ruled suicide. No need to take him out in front of so many witnesses. So most likely Gallo, or maybe the other bosses just got tired of his civil rights act. Whoever did it knew Joey Gallo was most likely going to be blamed.

That poor guy probably shit his pants when Colombo got shot! He probably thought he would get hit for not stopping the shooter before the first shot.

I wanted to add something to this conversation I had neglected to mention before, which in my mind points to Gambino as the likeliest suspect or at least the one with a lot of motivation to do so. I'm surprised I haven't seen mention of it in 114 preceding posts in this thread, but I think it's well worth bringing up in establishing further intent on Gambino's part.

According to a 1971 report in the New York Times, during a heated argument over the League, Colombo allegedly spat in Carlo Gambino's face.

Now I don't know about you, but with rare exception I would think it is not an unrealistic assumption to make that no matter who you are - if you spit in Carlo Gambino's face...well I'd say you'd likely have more time on this earth with a Pancreatic cancer diagnosis. I can't possibly imagine any scenario in which Gambino allows that to go unchecked.

I'm sure Colombo had plenty of other enemies and so it doesn't discount other theories by itself, but it certainly adds more motive to Gambino. Add that to the shooter being tied to known Gambino and Lucchese hangouts and associates and the picture begins to get a little clearer.

I really do think the likeliest signs with what evidence we have to work with point to Gambino, looking to hang blame on Gallo. Particularly with the use of a black man; many old timers didn't like Gallo's associations with black gangsters so it serves as a fitting bit of symbolism there.

Gambino was a shrewd guy, easily one of the best bosses of all time. This was an opportunity to get an annoyance out of the way as well as exact revenge. I would be more surprised at Gambino's character if he did not take advantage of this opportunity than if he did.

I don't believe for a minute that Colombo would spit in Gambino's face. I can't remember who said that? Was it law enforcement or something in Scarpa's files? ~LisaB

Colombo was a gentleman he wouldn't insult Gambino he respected the rules of Cosa Nostra.

1,000,000% I agree Hollander .........never happened

never happened ..he would have been chopped up and left in the street..