So if there's still an Italian-American organized crime presence in Kansas City, I know there's DEFINITELY something still going on in Chicago.

The mob in KC is nothing more than a gambling ring,yes there are men that have the same surnames of historical members but that isnt enought.

IMO there is most certainly a presence in Chicago. Albeit a small footprint for sure. A wisp of their former selves. But I'd say there are made guys and a crew there. However tiny they may be nowadays

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I don't know that I'd agree with that assessment Furio. They got pinched FOR running a gambling ring. That doesn't mean thats their only racket. And so what if it is?

If "made" guys are involved. And there's even a handful them. Which they're obviously are. Plus a small crew of associates around them. That could constitute a "regime." No??

They would/could/might be similar to the Lou Morici/Frank Corbi regime that operated in the City of Baltimore for decades. They were a formal, recognized regime of the larger NYC based Anastasia/Gambino Family. Morici/Corbi were the succeeding capos of the city. There was NO entire borgata per se.

But this single "regime" of the Gambino Family, who had sole mafia control over the entire city of Baltimore.

Nowadays in KC, it may very well be the same scenario. These people may operate independently. Or they could now be "coming into" a larger borgata such as Detroit. Or one of the NYC borgatas who currently "service" them as its called.

The scenario I just presented is a VERY, VERY, real possibility. Especially in light of the current state of CN in this country.

To me the fact that there are still gangsters of the same bloodlines as historical members says that Italian-American OC is deeply rooted in KC and isn't going anywhere. It will likely always be there in some form or another, regardless if you think they're a legitimate borgata or not. But that's my opinion.

NYMafia a bunch of old made men and some associates doesnt make a family because even Pittsburgh had a recent gambling bust but everyone know that is dead as family.
Today the nephews of historical members use their surnames and connections to made money but there are no hierarchy,no induction ceremonies.

Seems to me some folks refuse to acknowledge they may have been wrong in the past and will now just stubbornly deny KC is active. I personally believe they exist and that it is a family. Besides, I'm not sure I ever saw anywhere that in order to be a family you had to be a certain size. Was that determined when Luciano established the current organization of the mob, I missed it in the rules I guess. Maybe we shouldn't get caught up in the size of the family, and focus more on the activities and in the case of KC, I think they're legit. But I also always thought Buffalo was and was told how wrong I was it was a dead family. So...

Not necessarily true. Pittsburhg is shot. There are NO made guys or surnames of dependents who as made guys operating. Period!

But Cammisano, Civella, etc?? these are "made guys" - direct descendants. There IS some structure there IMO. You could be a goodfellow from Hawaii, hanging out with the coconuts. But if your "made" you are ALWAYS a part of Cosa Nostra. Period. And would be welcomed into whatever borgata is closest to your geographic area to "come into"

Thats a fact!

So I respectfully disagree with what you're saying

agreed. another way to view it is this. It traditionally took "10" members to be a recognized "Family" But even if they do NOT have 10 "made" members, They would still be considered, could be, and probably are, a "satellite crew" of a larger traditional family from out of state. If not in KC, because they are shot, then maybe the Detroit Family who is still a fully functioning borgata, Or Chicago, or a NYC crew, etc.

My bet would be that they get "serviced" by Detroit if they have a problem. IMO

NYMafia, sounds reasonable to me. My only disagreement is with the attachment to another family. I have nothing to base this on except my opinion. Why would KC need to be with a "traditional" family. One, they're their own traditional family which you have written about very well. Two, in this day and age if I were a smaller viable family (which I think they are) why would I need another family to protect me and/or settle my disputes. Today's mob is just not big enough, or TOUGH enough (im talking out west now) to intrude on another families turf. not like in the past when Chicago would send a crew of "killers" to make you change your mind. I just don't see that in todays mob, maybe, just maybe in NY with CT, or NJ for example. But who's strong and big enough to send a crew out to KC and convince them to cooperate if they don't want to out there? And to force them to pay tribute to the larger family for protection? I don't see it. And if it's happening, then maybe we're all underestimating the power and influence of todays mob. (I hope the above made sense typed it quick)

Good point. If they DO HAVE say, 10-15 goodfellas left, and associates around those made guys. Then you are correct in your assessment. But if there are only 2,3, or 4 made guys left. With no "lifeline" to a TRUE fully recognized borgata, then these individual made guys are essentially "independents".........that could very well be. But they then are NOT a family per se. Just a few remnants of what once was, bouncing around and making a few dollars the best they can.

If there IS a KC mob structure in places, (and through my studies I truly believe that there is), then this entire conversation we're having is moot. Agreed?

If their is NO central command "hierarchy" in control (NO KC family), then it stands to reason that any left over soldiers require a "home" so to speak. And Detroit, being closest in proximity to them, would be my choice as a "home base"

It all depends upon how many guys (made) are left. And I don't care if they are running a book, a shy, babania, or all 3 of the above. Thats window dressing, and doesn't affect our conversation. Regardless of their activities, they are still a borgata if they have a hierarchy.

Agreed!

When happned the last making ceremony in KC? If they have only few made men left what prevent them to made the associates? Detroit its basicaly a family made by the Zerilli,Tocco,Giacalone families members,that saved it.
If they were a viale family like Chicago or Detroit,they would made new blood and maybe send emissaries to the nearest families maybe NY to be recognized.
Doesn’t count the size but to be active and recognized.

I just finished a 1 year probation violation for being in the company of felons and members of organized crime. My violation was being seen in the company i.e. having breakfast with two of the names on your llist.. I have known some of these guys all of my life having grown up in the Columbas Park/Northeast section of Kansas City which in those days was little Italy, it has since moved north of Kansas City. My Uncle was Paul Varsalona, he was a made member of Corky Civella's crew. He was listed in Tony Civell'a's obituary. As a young child I met the people you write about and in fact many of them were family, to include Uncle Nick. Many of the current "family" I grew up with and went to school with. I spent almost 30 years working for my Uncle Paulie and then later on others, I was not much more than a knock around guy, who could make money with balls bigger than my brains. Some of those 30 years were spent in lock up, my friends know I can be trusted and thats enough for me. I say all of this to make one point. I know whats going on in KC, I know whats not and whos is who and who is not. Are there some young guys who think they are gangsters because they can move a little weed or some coke, yeah, are they guys who could carry Carl Deluna's water bottle, no. I wont discuss what and who is doing anything now, but if you want to know the history I ll talk about that. II ll talk about cases that have occured, you mention Tony C's arrest and conviction for skimming ATM machines, I was there when the FBI came into the store and siezed the ATM machine at Scolas store. I was visiting my friend Chucky Ponti who was on record with Paulie Scola, till he died.. He continued working with the Scolas until he died late last year. Anyway you can believe me or you can chose not to, it doesn't really matter to me, but my history will speak for itself, when Vince Piscotta and Mark Sorrentino were arrested for Arson, I told everyone before it was announced that it was mob related in fact I argued with Wiseguy on this forum about that only to be proven right when the FBI announced that Vince was a made member and Mark was an associate. Like I said believe it or not I could careless, There is more going on then some say and less going on than others on here.

There are five made guys still active to varying degrees.

what case was there for stolen goods, please enlighten me,

I am not from the midwest, let along KC per se. I come out of NYC. So I can only speak from the extensive research I've done on the KC mob, not personal experience of living there and knowing people. But what you say, and the way you say it, has the "ring" of truth to me.

I've seen a lot of bullshitters, and I gotta say that you do not sound like one of them.

From what I've learned about KC (and some of the other crews located in other various states), I DO believe there is a "presence" of Cosa Nostra still around in KC.

I also strongly believe (contrary to some of my previous statements), that there is also a small crew in St. Louis, and a few other towns and cities throughout the U.S.

As I've written previously, some would be considered a loosely based "crew," some have enough structure that they have a capo or maybe two, who govern 5 to 10 soldiers or so. Who in turn oversee another 10-15 associate-members. Certainly, when taken collectively, a grouping such as this could be considered a formal "regime" of a larger Family technically "outside" their geographical territory, yet who "oversee" this semi-independent regime.

Likewise, let's say they still had enough formal "members" who decided to vote in a "boss" per se, to govern the crew, and he in turn named either an underboss, or a "top capo" as his assistant over the remaining 8-9 members, THATS a "Formal" borgata. As "formal" as any other Family in the entire United States of America (or Sicily too for that matter).

It's not even debatable! Those ARE the rules of Cosa Nostra. History has taught us that they always were the rules.

I personally believe (as stated earlier), that however you prefer to refer to KC as, there is some sort of a "structure" there.

And Joey Dice sounds legit to me. (Thanks for the input JD)

NYMAFIA e en to me Johnny Dice is right but again if there are a boss that rule on the borgata why were arent heard of making ceremonies or of a full hierarchy?

The family has never been big on the making ceremony, they ran very similar to Chicago and went many years without making people. They also had non Italians working in very high positions of authority and of course they could not be made. I am referring to Snag Klein and Max Jaben. Both Jewish but both very powerful within the family. This will I am sure be questioned but I believe that the last ceremony was in 92 or 93 toward the end of Willie Cammisano's time in the seat. Sometime after the Belfonte Bombing I believe but I am not certain on this. Gerry Cammisano, Vincent Civella, Vince Pisciotta, PJ Ribasti and Jimmy Morttina.

Because #1 - They are a SECRET society. And they don't put such things in the newspapers for the public to read. And #2, as JD says, maybe they didn't have a ceremony in years (or maybe they have, or only 1,2, or 3 men, and keep it VERY secret - on a need to know basis). This IS Cosa Nostra after all is said and done. Period!

Here is most of the current lineup for the "current" KC mob;
--
John Sciortino - Boss
Peter Simone - Underboss
William Cammisano Jr. - Capo
Peter Ribaste - Capo ?
Vincent Civella - Capo
---------------------- - Soldiers & Associates (mixed)
James Moretina
Philip Simone
Anthony Simone
Joseph Barletta
Dominick Scola
Jerry Cammisano
Samuel Scardino
Michael Sansone
Anthony Chiavola
Louis Ribaste
Vincent Pisciotta
Marc Picone
Eugene Picone
Benjamin Palmentere
Carlo Cavallaro
John Mandacina
James Di Capo
John Cuezze
John Calia
--
And these are only the (24) names we know! I'm certain there's more we don't know about.

It's not even debatable in my opinion. Kansas City lives!

So does Detroit and St. Louis. Chicago is still in there too, although they're all busted up and a shell of their former selves.

Also the Chicago Outfit is a secret society but we know the hierarchy and the name of the made men and everyone say that the Outfit is still,same think for Detroit but nobody say that for KC of St Luois.

Who's saying it?? It means absolutely nothing in the scheme of our discussion. Even law enforcement doesn't "really" know, until they really know.

And that usually comes from arrests. Until they crack a network, LE is also often in the dark. Without a rat (who's inside such as a made guy, or top associates turning informant), who's gonna know this information??

Right or wrong?

I tell you this. Read the names I wrote, check the names out to see if they are still alive, which if they are in they're 60's and 70s they should be. They're documented involvement with the KC crew has been confirmed in the past.

So where's the problem here? Why are we still debating? If there is 20-30 known guys (made and close associates), young enough to still be bouncing around........(and its been shown to you). Thats it!!!

They're booking sports, gambling, some shylocking, and organized. They're a CREW! end of story

Seems to me they exist like I've maintained all along. I think we tend to get caught up on what we know, and dismiss what we don't know. Just because we know this or that happened or happens in one city and we don't know that it happens somewhere else doesn't mean anything at all. Like NYMafia pointed out it's a secret society and the I'm sure the federal authorities spend more time on the larger families, therefore we hear more about them. Few people are enamored with the KC family outside of KC, but make a bust in Chicago, NYC Philly its national news. So resources are used more in those cities. That of course bodes well for the smaller families and not so well for us who want information on the smaller families. If my count is correct, now the so called experts on this site claimed previously Buffalo, dead, KC, dead, Detroit, dead! Those experts in my opinion are 0-3.

KC traditionally doesn’t recognize the post of consigliere, but the FBI in Missouri believes Frank DeLuna, serves Sciortino as his No. 1 advisor. Frank is the younger brother of Carl (Tuffy) DeLuna.

I agree

Hollander, How old would this Frank DeLuna be?