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Poor Freddy #1010048
04/18/21 10:49 PM
04/18/21 10:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,474
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline OP
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mustachepete  Offline OP
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No. Virginia
Freddy/Fredo really got screwed. It's occurred to me recently that by the end of the novel, he was not just competent, but legitimate - Vito's presentable son. When Mike went to Las Vegas in the novel:

[list]
[*]Johnny was put in charge of recruiting entertainment for all four Corleone hotels.
[*]Dr. Jules was put in charge of medicine at all four hotels.
[*]Lucy was told she'd run the shops or hire girls at all four hotels.
[list]
[*]


Vito was supposed to tell Freddy his new job, but since Freddy had shown a genius for running a hotel it could only be that he would run the hospitality side at all four hotels. Instead, we get the slimy pimp/blackmailer of GF2, living off Michael's oily crumbs.

I've often thought that a movie similar to Casino would have been a good GF3. Such a film could have been built around Freddy.

Last edited by mustachepete; 04/18/21 10:51 PM.
Re: Poor Freddy [Re: mustachepete] #1010052
04/19/21 01:11 AM
04/19/21 01:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
Pete, you're right about Fredo's transformation. In the novel Fredo is lauded as a genius when it came to running a hotel. However, the novel also has Vito disparaging his son's new found ability.

By II, Fredo's has been promoted(?) to running a brothel and, apparently, becomes a captain. Doesn't Michael tell Tom that he has power over Fredo and his men?

It's confusing.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Poor Freddy [Re: olivant] #1010061
04/19/21 08:42 AM
04/19/21 08:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,474
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline OP
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mustachepete  Offline OP
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No. Virginia
Originally Posted by olivant
Doesn't Michael tell Tom that he has power over Fredo and his men?


Tom as the don, yes. It's hard to imagine Michael discussing Fredo's enterprises with him. One mistake Michael and Vito share is having a family member halfway in the Family, taking a living from the illegal side but not involved in the larger enterprise. It's a breeding ground for resentment.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Poor Freddy [Re: mustachepete] #1010626
04/28/21 08:41 PM
04/28/21 08:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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So Pete, we don't know if Fredo was a capo. If he had men, then it seems likely. However, there are timeline or continuity problems.

In the GF, he is running a casino hotel and successfully. Apparently, he doesn't have any men at that point. Then by GFII he has men and runs a brothel or two and may have been a capo. Now, he can legitimately complain that he was stepped over for leadership of the Corleones. But, his complaint about only being sent hither and yon on mickey mouse assignments falls flat. He was given substantial responsibilities and a leadership position in the family.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Poor Freddy [Re: olivant] #1010719
04/29/21 11:11 PM
04/29/21 11:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,712
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,712
AZ
"Fredo and his men" is one of those script anomalies that pop up so often in the Trilogy. In NY, Vito and then Michael had real Mafia regimes with capos over them to conduct illegal business and provide muscle. In Nevada, though, Michael's businesses were legitimate and, as far as we see in II, security was under Rocco, probably hired guys not made men or associates. If Fredo had men under him (a regime), what would he need them for? The chart shown at the Senate hearing listed "Caporegimes" but it was historical and included Tessio and Clemenza, as well as Sonny.

Fredo was a minor figure in GF and in the novel. He was somewhat weak and ineffectual in the novel, but the movies portrayed him as an idiot. Ironically, that treatment made his betrayal of Michael, and the boathouse scene, all the more powerful and shocking.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Poor Freddy [Re: mustachepete] #1010734
04/30/21 10:04 AM
04/30/21 10:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,474
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline OP
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mustachepete  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,474
No. Virginia
I think that the Fredo character may have put Coppola in a serious bind. The Freddy of the novel is, as TB says, a minor character, but that's of necessity because he is designed not to have an inner life. Lack of passion and introspection define him, so there's nothing to emerge on film.

So they replace that guy with the weak and stupid persona. Cazale knocks that out of the park, and Fredo gets upped for a big role in the GF2 script. But, that stifles the script in a way that leaves some of our neverending questions not just unanswered, but unanswerable. If Fredo says his boys killed the shooters, if he says that the plan was for Mike to be kidnapped, then when Fredo is shot in the back of the neck the audience will applaud. Coppola can't have that and still have his tragedy, so no one can tell the audience what actually happened.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Poor Freddy [Re: mustachepete] #1014604
06/26/21 09:03 PM
06/26/21 09:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan Offline
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OakAsFan  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
Old Hollywood gimmick. Your lead needs a clumsy misfit to make him look more dominant and capable. In the book, Fredo's flaw is that he's just too dependent on family, reluctant to branch out. In the movie he's a total pushover and ultimately a traitor.

In the old westerns they used to have short doorways for the men to walk through and tall ones for the women, to make the men look bigger and the women look smaller. Juxtaposition. Weak, goofy Fredo compliments smooth, powerful Michael.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea

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