Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim?

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Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018029 08/14/21 05:15 PM 08/14/21 05:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Originally Posted by JCrusher Originally Posted by Fleming_Ave My point was that back then the mob had not yet had it's power severely weakened. Even today most people in the NYC area would have be scared shitless to have a problem with a mob guy, back then, twice as much. . Very True. Back in 1980 in that neighborhood would never be any to cross a mob guy. Even those who â€œsupportedâ€ Gotti did it mostly out of fear after what happened to Favara Not true, they loved him there for the most part. His supporters were even fanatical about him. He never had to force them, he couldn't. You may disagree with their feelings, but you have to know they were not scared or coerced.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: Dwalin2011] #1018032 08/14/21 05:26 PM 08/14/21 05:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Originally Posted by Dwalin2011 Originally Posted by jace Originally Posted by Dwalin2011 The â€˜ndrangheta has murdered children on many occasions, not just accidentally by stray bullets, but on purpose, just to get at their adult family members. 2 examples: In 1975 in Cittanova, 12-year-old Domenico Facchineri and 9-year old Michele Facchineri were murdered by members of the Albanese-Raso â€˜ndrangheta group, opposed to the Facchineri family. In 1973 in Crotone, 10-year-old Salvatore Feudale was murdered together with his brother Domenico, as retaliation against their father, ywho had killed the son of the â€˜ndrangheta boss Luigi Vrenna. Some people may say that â€œthese are only a few cases picked outâ€, but imo even 1 single child murder is a very big tragedy. There is no excuse for whoever kills a child, and in these cases they were even targeted with premeditation, they were not â€œcollateral damageâ€ hit by stray bullets (which still would be no excuse). In my opinion, Itâ€™s also quite disgusting that Luigi Vrenna, who ordered this 10-year-old boy killed, was treated with respect even by the police lieutenant Tito Baldo Honorati, who arrested himâ€¦Some submissive people worship these â€œgodfathersâ€ no matter what they do, even when they kill children. The â€˜Ndrangheta is another organization, they are not part of it, but since you include them, lets add Columbian and mexican gangs., Arabic gangs. Bloods, Crips, and everyone else? Of course not. they don't belong. The topic title talks about "mob victims". The "mob" is a term that is a little vague, so I assumed all Italian organizations would qualify. Otherwise, it would have been specifically "Cosa Nostra victims". But we are getting too much into semantics here imo. Theoretically, one could also say "Russian mob", "Chinese mob" or whatever, it becomes confusing. . Your post was correct and it definitely applies. The Italian mob, Russian mob, and yakuza have all proven to be ruthless and obviously as we have seen in this thread have no issue killing innocent civilians. Great Post ðŸ‘

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: CNote] #1018072 08/15/21 01:06 PM 08/15/21 01:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Originally Posted by CNote Come to think of it The Gemini Crew, as usual, have a list of civilian hits some sanctioned, some not. Patrick Penny Khalid Daoud Ronald Falcaro Frederick Todaro etc, etc, etc . Yeah god knows how many innocents they killed. That crew were maniacs. I mean there are a lot more mob victims in general that are not publicly known

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018089 08/15/21 11:23 PM 08/15/21 11:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Originally Posted by JCrusher Originally Posted by CNote Come to think of it The Gemini Crew, as usual, have a list of civilian hits some sanctioned, some not. Patrick Penny Khalid Daoud Ronald Falcaro Frederick Todaro etc, etc, etc . Yeah god knows how many innocents they killed. That crew were maniacs. I mean there are a lot more mob victims in general that are not publicly known Hold on, I call BS on both tf you. The names mentioned were involved in porn, a stolen car ring, and other activities. The yer not civilians, so quit adding names, Next we'll have "Tom Billotti, a hard working chauffeur, killed for no reason by the Mafia while driving Paul Castellano " That is where this is headed.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: jace] #1018091 08/15/21 11:48 PM 08/15/21 11:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305 CNote Brooklyn Bum
CNote Brooklyn Bum Underboss Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305	Originally Posted by jace Originally Posted by JCrusher Originally Posted by CNote Come to think of it The Gemini Crew, as usual, have a list of civilian hits some sanctioned, some not. Patrick Penny Khalid Daoud Ronald Falcaro Frederick Todaro etc, etc, etc . Yeah god knows how many innocents they killed. That crew were maniacs. I mean there are a lot more mob victims in general that are not publicly known Hold on, I call BS on both tf you. The names mentioned were involved in porn, a stolen car ring, and other activities. The yer not civilians, so quit adding names, Next we'll have "Tom Billotti, a hard working chauffeur, killed for no reason by the Mafia while driving Paul Castellano " That is where this is headed. Lol, nice try Mr. Prosecutor, I agree with your categorization of disqualifying activities but let me drop these little jewels in your ear. 1.Patrick Penny was the witness to the Eppolito murders 2. Khalid Daoud was an Kuwaiti exporter who was wondering why he couldn't find any cars to export to Kuwait and brought along Ronald Falcaro for support, both were innocent and legit. 3. Frederick Toddaro owned a film developing business but he was legit, it was his nephew who was drawn by the potential profits from porn. When the old man signed over the business to his nephew to avoid liability, he signed his own death warrant.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: CNote] #1018092 08/16/21 12:58 AM 08/16/21 12:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Originally Posted by CNote Originally Posted by jace Originally Posted by JCrusher Originally Posted by CNote Come to think of it The Gemini Crew, as usual, have a list of civilian hits some sanctioned, some not. Patrick Penny Khalid Daoud Ronald Falcaro Frederick Todaro etc, etc, etc . Yeah god knows how many innocents they killed. That crew were maniacs. I mean there are a lot more mob victims in general that are not publicly known Hold on, I call BS on both tf you. The names mentioned were involved in porn, a stolen car ring, and other activities. The yer not civilians, so quit adding names, Next we'll have "Tom Billotti, a hard working chauffeur, killed for no reason by the Mafia while driving Paul Castellano " That is where this is headed. Lol, nice try Mr. Prosecutor, I agree with your categorization of disqualifying activities but let me drop these little jewels in your ear. 1.Patrick Penny was the witness to the Eppolito murders 2. Khalid Daoud was an Kuwaiti exporter who was wondering why he couldn't find any cars to export to Kuwait and brought along Ronald Falcaro for support, both were innocent and legit. 3. Frederick Toddaro owned a film developing business but he was legit, it was his nephew who was drawn by the potential profits from porn. When the old man signed over the business to his nephew to avoid liability, he signed his own death warrant. They were not legit, read the indictments.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018097 08/16/21 05:44 AM 08/16/21 05:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305 CNote Brooklyn Bum
CNote Brooklyn Bum Underboss Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305	If you have factual, credible evidence to support your statement you should share it. Attached Files

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: CNote] #1018098 08/16/21 07:12 AM 08/16/21 07:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Originally Posted by CNote If you have factual, credible evidence to support your statement you should share it. . Exactly! Many posters along with yourself have provided great examples backed up by proof Last edited by JCrusher; 08/16/21 07:18 AM.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018099 08/16/21 12:25 PM 08/16/21 12:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Originally Posted by JCrusher Originally Posted by CNote If you have factual, credible evidence to support your statement you should share it. . Exactly! Many posters along with yourself have provided great examples backed up by proof You put up anything, as I said, read the indictments. I could put up any proof and you would say it was irrelevant, It's a waste of time, Maybe next month, this topic will still be here with you giving it mouth-to-mouth resuscitation any time it is quiet a few days. Now tell us about how Paul Castellano was an innocent victim of Gotti.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018101 08/16/21 12:39 PM 08/16/21 12:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	To be fair I will try: Khaled Doud & Ronald Falcaro October 12, 1979 Both were lured to Frederick DiNome's auto shop in East Flatbush, Brooklyn then shot, killed and dismembered for being competitor of stolen car ring and suspected of cooperating with law enforcement against DeMeo.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: CNote] #1018106 08/16/21 01:54 PM 08/16/21 01:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Originally Posted by CNote Originally Posted by jace Originally Posted by JCrusher Originally Posted by CNote Come to think of it The Gemini Crew, as usual, have a list of civilian hits some sanctioned, some not. Patrick Penny Khalid Daoud Ronald Falcaro Frederick Todaro etc, etc, etc . Yeah god knows how many innocents they killed. That crew were maniacs. I mean there are a lot more mob victims in general that are not publicly known Hold on, I call BS on both tf you. The names mentioned were involved in porn, a stolen car ring, and other activities. The yer not civilians, so quit adding names, Next we'll have "Tom Billotti, a hard working chauffeur, killed for no reason by the Mafia while driving Paul Castellano " That is where this is headed. Lol, nice try Mr. Prosecutor, I agree with your categorization of disqualifying activities but let me drop these little jewels in your ear. 1.Patrick Penny was the witness to the Eppolito murders 2. Khalid Daoud was an Kuwaiti exporter who was wondering why he couldn't find any cars to export to Kuwait and brought along Ronald Falcaro for support, both were innocent and legit. 3. Frederick Toddaro owned a film developing business but he was legit, it was his nephew who was drawn by the potential profits from porn. When the old man signed over the business to his nephew to avoid liability, he signed his own death warrant. . Absolutely. A certain person may not want to hear it but the mob are ruthless and have shown they will kill civilians.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: jace] #1018113 08/16/21 04:12 PM 08/16/21 04:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Originally Posted by jace To be fair I will try: Khaled Doud & Ronald Falcaro October 12, 1979 Both were lured to Frederick DiNome's auto shop in East Flatbush, Brooklyn then shot, killed and dismembered for being competitor of stolen car ring and suspected of cooperating with law enforcement against DeMeo.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: CNote] #1018120 08/16/21 07:50 PM 08/16/21 07:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Originally Posted by CNote Originally Posted by jace Originally Posted by JCrusher Originally Posted by CNote Come to think of it The Gemini Crew, as usual, have a list of civilian hits some sanctioned, some not. Patrick Penny Khalid Daoud Ronald Falcaro Frederick Todaro etc, etc, etc . Yeah god knows how many innocents they killed. That crew were maniacs. I mean there are a lot more mob victims in general that are not publicly known Hold on, I call BS on both tf you. The names mentioned were involved in porn, a stolen car ring, and other activities. The yer not civilians, so quit adding names, Next we'll have "Tom Billotti, a hard working chauffeur, killed for no reason by the Mafia while driving Paul Castellano " That is where this is headed. Lol, nice try Mr. Prosecutor, I agree with your categorization of disqualifying activities but let me drop these little jewels in your ear. 1.Patrick Penny was the witness to the Eppolito murders 2. Khalid Daoud was an Kuwaiti exporter who was wondering why he couldn't find any cars to export to Kuwait and brought along Ronald Falcaro for support, both were innocent and legit. 3. Frederick Toddaro owned a film developing business but he was legit, it was his nephew who was drawn by the potential profits from porn. When the old man signed over the business to his nephew to avoid liability, he signed his own death warrant . . Iâ€™m glad you brought up Patrick Penny. Another innocent victim in the wrong place at the wrong time

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: jace] #1018124 08/16/21 09:01 PM 08/16/21 09:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Originally Posted by jace To be fair I will try: Khaled Doud & Ronald Falcaro October 12, 1979 Both were lured to Frederick DiNome's auto shop in East Flatbush, Brooklyn then shot, killed and dismembered for being competitor of stolen car ring and suspected of cooperating with law enforcement against DeMeo.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: jace] #1018125 08/16/21 09:18 PM 08/16/21 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305 CNote Brooklyn Bum
CNote Brooklyn Bum Underboss Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305	Originally Posted by jace Originally Posted by jace To be fair I will try: Khaled Doud & Ronald Falcaro October 12, 1979 Both were lured to Frederick DiNome's auto shop in East Flatbush, Brooklyn then shot, killed and dismembered for being competitor of stolen car ring and suspected of cooperating with law enforcement against DeMeo. Ok, ok, I can take a hint, my apologies for not responding sooner. If you pull out your handy copy of Murder Machine and turn it to page 243, the first page of chapter 15. At the bottom of the page, it details how Ronald Ustica encountered Khalid Daoud and Abdullah Hassan at the Port of Newark and offered them discount stolen car. Hassan accepted and became the point man in Kuwait. Daoud declined and went into competition with the Kuwait stolen car operation, legitimately. However, when Daoud was unable to locate any used Caprices to purchase, he went over to Pier 262 where DeMeo and Crew had there next shipment to Kuwait on the dock. Daoud became suspicious and began writing down VIN numbers when he encountered Ronald Ustica and confronted him about the stolen car operation and indicated he was going to the police. Instead he and Ronald Falcaro became the second double murder in less than a year for Demeo. I have attached page 243, 244 and 246 from Murder Machine for your review. Attached Files

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018126 08/16/21 09:35 PM 08/16/21 09:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	I was not hinting towards you CNote, I was responding to the kook who wants to keep posting the same thing over and over till everyone takes to their knees to pray with him, or whatever his goal is. Thanks for The Murder Machine link, but you did not have to go to the trouble, I read it, thanks anyway. There are several versions, some saying they were in the business, others saying different, we can never know for sure.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018127 08/16/21 09:49 PM 08/16/21 09:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305 CNote Brooklyn Bum
CNote Brooklyn Bum Underboss Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305	The thanks go to you partner, this is an exchange for information. I don't pretend to know everything and if you have some info I can learn from, I welcome the input.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: jace] #1018132 08/16/21 10:35 PM 08/16/21 10:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Originally Posted by jace I was not hinting towards you CNote, I was responding to the kook who wants to keep posting the same thing over and over till everyone takes to their knees to pray with him, or whatever his goal is. Thanks for The Murder Machine link, but you did not have to go to the trouble, I read it, thanks anyway. There are several versions, some saying they were in the business, others saying different, we can never know for sure. . Really? Name calling now? If you hate this topic so much then why not just ignore it? Nobody else has an issue with it in fact many have given good examples

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018135 08/16/21 10:58 PM 08/16/21 10:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Originally Posted by JCrusher Originally Posted by jace I was not hinting towards you CNote, I was responding to the kook who wants to keep posting the same thing over and over till everyone takes to their knees to pray with him, or whatever his goal is. Thanks for The Murder Machine link, but you did not have to go to the trouble, I read it, thanks anyway. There are several versions, some saying they were in the business, others saying different, we can never know for sure. . Really? Name calling now? If you hate this topic so much then why not just ignore it? Nobody else has an issue with it in fact many have given good examples What makes you think I meant you?

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: CNote] #1018136 08/16/21 10:59 PM 08/16/21 10:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Originally Posted by CNote The thanks go to you partner, this is an exchange for information. I don't pretend to know everything and if you have some info I can learn from, I welcome the input. Same here CNote, thank you.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: Njein] #1018160 08/17/21 10:48 AM 08/17/21 10:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Originally Posted by Njein What about Robert Kubecka and his brother-in-law Donald Barstow? They were gunned down for not joining a waste-hauling cartel owned by Sal Avellino . . Iâ€™m so sorry I missed this. I read up on this and found an article where Kubecka was on the phone with 911 terrified. So sad

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018240 08/19/21 08:13 AM 08/19/21 08:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Article about the Ragucci murder. So Sad https://www.scribd.com/doc/122348426/Dominick-Ragucci

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018243 08/19/21 09:28 AM 08/19/21 09:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305 CNote Brooklyn Bum
CNote Brooklyn Bum Underboss Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,182 212-n-305	Image of Dominic Ragucci in the front seat of his car after being shot ten times by Roy DeMeo. Attached Files

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018244 08/19/21 11:53 AM 08/19/21 11:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	You can mention Raguucci and anyone else all you want the facts remain: It was not a mob murder but a rogue mobster; and he did not realize who he was killing, he thought it was a Cuban hitman. It is not "A civilian victim of the Mafia" No bosses or other captains knew of DeMeo and the Cubans. and no one would have sanctioned the killing of a civilian. It was tragedy ( I have to say it for the 100th time) and and DeMeo was crazy. The fact remains that a boss in America giving the go ahead for the killing of a civilian is EXTREMELY RARE and it has to be a person who had some contact with the mob and is testifying. Still rare even then. Try to twist it, try to bend it, and try to keep the thread going forever by repeating the same things and bumping the thread up, it does not change the facts.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018245 08/19/21 12:00 PM 08/19/21 12:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 920 blueracing347 Underboss
blueracing347 Underboss Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 920	Anastasia ordered the hit on the guy who went out of his way and ratted on the robber.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: blueracing347] #1018255 08/19/21 02:57 PM 08/19/21 02:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Originally Posted by blueracing347 Anastasia ordered the hit on the guy who went out of his way and ratted on the robber. That was a newspaper rumor and never taken serious. You are referring to Arnold Schuster, who turned in a bank robber named Willly Sutton. Anastasia and Sutton had no ties.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: CNote] #1018257 08/19/21 03:17 PM 08/19/21 03:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Originally Posted by CNote Image of Dominic Ragucci in the front seat of his car after being shot ten times by Roy DeMeo . . Thank You for posting the pic CNote. I canâ€™t even imagine the fear that poor kid must have felt when those two maniacs were chasing after him and he finally crashed l. Certainly a horrific mob murder of a civilian Last edited by JCrusher; 08/19/21 03:39 PM.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: JCrusher] #1018284 08/19/21 07:41 PM 08/19/21 07:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 920 blueracing347 Underboss
blueracing347 Underboss Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 920	Jace, there goes the media again. I remember watching a documentary adding that murder to the list of things that the other families gave for getting rid of him. I always thought that seemed a little odd. The boss ordered a hit on someone for ratting on a non member/associate. Regarding the Ragucci murder, how did Demeo go without being the prime suspect. For Christ's sake there were witnesses and that article clearly says it all began on his street.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: blueracing347] #1018293 08/19/21 07:59 PM 08/19/21 07:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102 J JCrusher OP Underboss
JCrusher OP J Underboss Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,102	Originally Posted by blueracing347 Jace, there goes the media again. I remember watching a documentary adding that murder to the list of things that the other families gave for getting rid of him. I always thought that seemed a little odd. The boss ordered a hit on someone for ratting on a non member/associate. Regarding the Ragucci murder, how did Demeo go without being the prime suspect. For Christ's sake there were witnesses and that article clearly says it all began on his street . . Yeah Iâ€™m not sure how Demeo got away with that. Honestly Iâ€™m not sure how many witnesses were at the Actual murder site unless Demeo got extremely lucky and nobody saw anything or kept their mouth shut out if fear Last edited by JCrusher; 08/19/21 08:02 PM.

Re: Saddest story when a civilian was a mob victim? [Re: blueracing347] #1018299 08/19/21 08:29 PM 08/19/21 08:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807 J jace Underboss
jace J Underboss Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,807	Yes. Last edited by jace; 08/19/21 08:39 PM.

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