I have skimmed through the various threads who killed them but I couldn't really find anything why there had to be these assassins in the first place other than to frame Pentangeli because looks like they were hired out of New York

I reckon even bigger risk just for Pentangeli connection, when whoever killed them, could have carried out the shooting himself Simpler

The phrase "it looks like they were hired out of New York" has always bothered me. What, exactly, about their appearance indicates where they were from ? Just for fun,let's say they had ID in their pockets. Surely,nobody in that business carries legitimate documents,especially when on an assignment to kill a major Mob Boss. Even if they had a Ferrara's cannoli in their pocket,and wore T-shirt's that said "I love Rao's" I don't get how they would've been tied to New York.

Yes, you have to wonder about what constitutes a "New York connection." It'd be in Roth's interest to make them look like they were hired out of New York, the better to keep the finger pointing at Pentangeli.

I always figured that they were just guessing g and figured nobody else would try to make a move on Mike besides NY considering the events of GF1. Like Turnbull says I’m sure Roth expected that too. Let’s be honest Roth pretty much outsmarted Mike throughout the whole film and it was only pure luck that Mike survived that attack. That’s pretty impressive considering how powerful Mike is at the start of the film

If Kay hadn't mentioned the drapes being open,I have no doubt Mike would've died that day. It's kind of ironic that Kay saved Mike's life,only to have him ruin hers.

Roth's interest to keep the finger pointing at Pentangeli spectacularly failed
As we debated in Did Roth sort of win? thread: True Woltz let's not overstate the impact he had on Michael and luck had little or nothing to do with it

Michael was expected to be dead, machine gunned in his bedroom
I reckon noone would have suspected Roth and his "New York connection." wouldn't have mattered but he overthought it which ended up pointing the finger at him, when Michael survived

How would he know Rocco would say looks like they were hired out of New York unless that was their plan
Then was Rocco the second traitor and the one who killed the two assassins?

Then why couldn't Rocco carry out the shooting himself?
Just the one assassin not three No doubt less risky less complicated

Sure thing Evita “Just the one assassin [already in-house] not three No doubt less risky less complicated”

Roth had indeed "overthought" the plan being fixated, in framing Pentangeli and ended up in a tangled web
Huge and unnecessary risk, smuggling in and then hiding the two assassins who would have had to wait around until Michael entered the bedroom “when whoever killed them [the assassins] could have [easily] carried out the shooting himself Simpler”

Besides wasn't enough time? after the machine gun fire when everything was galvanized into immediate action – sirens, spot lights, guards, dogs and everyone was running around all over the Tahoe compound – without being seen, among others

• to kill the two machine guns armed assassins
• to drag their bodies into the ditch, where they were found
• to hide their machine guns

Coppola and Puzo too much anisette!

Hallelujah! Who opened the drapes? has been solved! It was Kay

Kay was waiting for Michael to be blasted by machine gun fire and when that didn't happen, Kay asked Michael “Why are the drapes open?” hoping Michael would move closer to the window, to close the drapes so that the assassins could get a better shot at Michael

• Let’s be honest Kay ruined Michael's life and became his horror

Kay knew when she married Michael, Michael was Mafia and Kay was quite knowledgeable too

Michael to Neri ; "I don't want anything to happen to Kay while my mother's alive"
Neri : Kay? Ypu mean Fredo"
Michael: "Fredo's a punk.He could never have pulled off a hit on his own. But I didn't know until this very day that it was Kay all along"
"She broke my heart Al,she broke my heart"

Kay biggest hypocrite broke his heart also abortion
She told him Anthony knows that you killed Fredo He know she killed his unborn brother

We always knew Michael were too smart to let Roth beat him

So we now say Rocco was the second traitor and the one who killed the two assassins?

. Look I do t believe in abortion but Kay was in an impossible situation. She was desperately trying to save her kids from being around that life and I guess in her mind she felt her unborn son was going to be groomed by Mike. Mike pretty much said that without saying it

. Yes Mike was very smart BUT like I mentioned earlier it was just pure dumb luck that he survived. No matter what you think of Roth that old man was extremely smart and cunning without having the type of muscle that Mike had

Roth's overthought plan of too many assassins, botched a simple hit of machine gunning confined space of a bedroom

If he had someone as implausible as it is


Why bother with the assassins in the first place “when whoever killed them [the assassins] could have [easily] carried out the shooting himself Simpler” Makes no sense whatsoever

Michael and Kay, sentiments aside....

Michael had already told Kay, very clearly, he won't let her take the children from him that it is an impossibility
Even after that she tells him about the 'abortion' the murder of their unborn child as if

What about the already born son who was left to be around that life, she, the mother was escaping from

I bet she didn't tell Anthony about his brother she killed Biggest hypocrite no doubt

No doubt Roth was not as smart and cunning as Michael
Also overthought, missed his chance and became the hunted one

1. Rocco or whoever the second traitor who killed the bedroom shooters
2. why there had to be these shooters in the first place
Too hard basket! No one has the answer

I started a thread about Roth's plan and how stupid/unnecessary it was. All he had to do was bide his time for a couple of weeks, have Michael killed in Cuba, use his connections to the Bautista regime to blame it on Castro and his rebels and he wins. Instead ...

That’s fair. Although Roth’s Initial Lake Tahoe planned attempt on Nike was pretty brilliant. Let’s be honest if not for Kay Mike was an inch away from being killed and Roth basically taking over. Also how he turned Frankie against him was pretty smart as well

It's a smart move Roth was always smarter

planned attempt good on paper but he overthought it Every plan fizzled out, ended up in a tangled web Sure caused some grief to Michael but Fail
Let’s be honest if not for Military Roth was an inch away from being killed

pretty brilliant pretty smart yet dead Roth

Tahoe shooting Fail
two million Fail
Havana killing Fail
turning Frankie Fail
perjury Fail
Jew in Israel Fail
Buenos Aries Fail
Panama Fail
retired investor on a pension Fail
US return Fail

Tahoe shooting was a brilliant plan but executed poorly Too many variables
Huge and unnecessary risks just for the "New York connection."

How'd Michael know it was Roth?

If Michael had died?
As Turnbull posted All Roth would have to do would be to sit back and let them fight each other
Then pick up all the Corleone business after all the bloodshed

If Michael had survived without the obvious blind Freddie "New York connection." set up, considering - Roth played this one beautifully Roth had Michael completely relaxed and confident, in their friendship - Michael may not have figured,

And nobody, figures out it was Roth all along

• Also Evita's original question

why there had to be these assassins in the first place “when whoever killed them [the assassins] could have [easily] carried out the shooting himself Simpler” No doubt less risky less complicated Makes no sense whatsoever

Again, Roth's fixation in framing Pentangeli was doomed for failure

from the thread lucab19 started
Roth's plan. Really?

I believe the Tahoe shooting would have been a sure-fire hit if, among others -

Again, Roth's fixation in framing Pentangeli was doomed for failure

Exactly He acts like I'm his son -- his successor Roth had Michael completely relaxed and confident, in their friendship

He was slippin' with Pentangeli as the fall guy Then again, Michael was expected to be dead, machine gunned in his bedroom
This is what happens when Vito's shooters are recycled!

Ahhh! that little farce Roth played, fooled a Corleone [until Michael survived the Tahoe shooting]

Michael still didn't see through Roth even after Roth in Miami was backing up the Rosato brothers in New York against Pentangeli the Corleone caporegime

Coppola and Puzo too much anisette!

• what was Fredo's wife, Deanna doing outside when the compound had just been machine gunned
• did Deanna spot the bodies through Fredo and Deanna's bedroom window “just lying there dead!”
• was their bedroom drapes open?! too

Actually who delivered the "New York connection." lines? according to the transcript it was not Rocco, it was a buttonmanAnother one that makes no sense “I don't recognize them” because whoever said the lines, would know! every contract killer other than “hired out of New York”?!

Was it relief "We won't get anything out of them now" that the dead assassins can't implicate anyone

There's a big difference between asking someone to provide information, or maybe even open drapes, and asking someone to kill their Don.

First of all, there's a totally different skill set involved. Fredo was apparently very useful to Roth as an informant. But would you trust him to carry out a hit?

Plus, the assassin's role is pretty much a suicide assignment. If no assassins were found on the compound, it would point to a very small group of suspects (even if the killer was not caught in the act, was able to hide the gun, get back to their room, etc.). Any chance of advancement in the new Corleone Family would be ruined even if they survived. Why would they agree to do that for Roth?



Maybe, but I think it was more like a few months. That's a long time to wait. A lot could have happened in that time, such as Michael figuring out that Roth is his enemy (actually, I think Michael already knew, but didn't expect such an aggressive move from Roth), Michael making further inroads in Roth's Nevada holdings, Fredo slipping up and revealing something, etc.

Good points Woltz makes perfect sense Same as Paulie and Tessio setting up but not actually pulling the trigger

If Michael had died, would there be any Corleone Family? I reckon in the ensuing chaos the likely scenarios are with noone knowing Fredo's involvement

Tom probably would have taken off unless he felt responsible for Fredo and stayed around for awhile to help him out Futile though

Fredo might try to claim the Family as the only blood male left but can't see it happening

The most likely outcome as I see is, Neri and Rocco fighting each other for control and Roth sitting pretty to pick up the Corleone business after all the bloodshed

There is also this implausible sequence of events even superman couldn't have pulled it off!

If there was no Tahoe shooting and Michael was to be killed in Havana, there would have been no need to recruit Fredo or backing up the Rosatos

I am not sure Michael was figuring out that Roth He acts like I'm his son -- his successor is his enemy until after the Tahoe shooting
I reckon that's where Roth was slippin'

Michael would have turned up completely relaxed and confident, in their friendship and be a sitting duck
However it still could have certainly raised significant suspicions that Michael was the only one who died

You organise a massacre and have Michael as one of the many victims. Wrong place. Wrong time. A lot of hand wringing and shedding of crocodile tears.

still could have certainly raised significant suspicions that Michael was the only one from Roth party who died