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Re: Roth or Barzini? Whose plan was the best?
[Re: Turnbull]
#1088855
04/27/24 08:00 PM
04/27/24 08:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 813
Trojan
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 813
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I still think Roth’s plan was the best and if not by pure luck Roth wins. If Kay doesn’t mention the drapes Mike is dead and if Fredo doesn’t tell Mike about the Senate lawyer Mike goes to jail Yes indeed. Roth's plans were brilliant, and he had backups for all of them--even arranging, after his stroke, near murder, and escape from Cuba, to nearly nail Michael at the Senate hearing. Roth was the scalpel. Barzini was the blunt instrument. He telegraphed his intentions by horning in on Corleone territory, even before Vito died. That's when Michael and Vito knew Barzini would try to kill Michael after Vito died. The only unknown at that point was the identity of the traitor who'd set up a meeting. That warm scene between Barzini and Tessio at Vito's burial answered that question. Barzini was a dead man at that point. Roth's scalpel was not sharp enough to cut through Michael As we debated in Why the Tahoe assassins? thread: Roth's plan had too many variables and the New York connection to finger Pentangeli spectacularly failed Why would Roth have backup plans? Did he foresee Mike would survive by pure luck! Roth arranging, it's his kinda town Havana Military car plan, though straightaway Red flags after the failed Tahoe shooting Yes indeed but don't know Michael's Senate hearing -- after his stroke, near murder, and escape from Cuba, his priority would have been to avoid coming back to the US and to finding a country that would take him, to save his own ass Senate hearing as you posted Drama trumps logic every time. Mike was never going to jail because of Frankie's brother's presence who was already on his way Michael like father like son I reckon, Vito the evil, ruthless, murderous original villain is seen through rose-colored glasses. He too was a cold blooded murderer.
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Re: Roth or Barzini? Whose plan was the best?
[Re: Trojan]
#1088860
04/27/24 11:03 PM
04/27/24 11:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
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Roth- Roth had Michael believing Michael was Roth's son -- Roth's successor -- Roth's heir apparent
- Roth was the Pied piper! beating the drums! calling the tune! dangling his casino business carrot
- Roth's plan may have been brilliant until Michael survived the Tahoe bedroom shooting
Roth's Achilles heel was, among others 1. Roth “telegraphed his intentions” by involving himself in the Rosato brothers-Pentangeli three territories beef 2. and the spectacularly failed New York connection to finger Pentangeli Barziniin addition to “That warm scene between Barzini and Tessio at Vito's burial” the giveaways even without Vito's warning 1. Funeral is not the time and place to arrange meetings 2. Normal procedure, Barzini's consigliere would approach Michael's consigliere 3. How and why rival Don and Capo were even talking, in the first place
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Re: Roth or Barzini? Whose plan was the best?
[Re: Turnbull]
#1088861
04/27/24 11:03 PM
04/27/24 11:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
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if Fredo doesn’t tell Mike about the Senate lawyer Mike goes to jail They already knew Frankie was alive, and the senator had openly announced that the committee could establish perjury by Michael. I guess the open question is how did they discover Frankie was alive. I'm guessing that the committee, by law, had to inform Michael, through Tom, of the identity of the witness (Pentangeli) they were going to put on the stand. The chairman was very helpful! telling Michael about their secret star witness The committee will stand in recess until ten o'clock when this committee will produce a witness who collaborates the charges that were made against you today and at which time Mr. Corleone you may very well be subject to indictment for perjury Watching on AMC: I guess the dumbest move in the all of GF2 is when the Senator tells Michael that on Monday he's going to produce a witness who can impeach Michael's testimony. It seems like an off-the-cuff remark in response to Michael's challenge to produce a witness against him. The lawyer Questadt doesn't look happy while the Senator's talking. Star witness -- Frankie Pentangeli who “has had no buffer between himself and Michael Corleone”
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Re: Roth or Barzini? Whose plan was the best?
[Re: Trojan]
#1088884
04/28/24 08:52 AM
04/28/24 08:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,087
JCrusher
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,087
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I still think Roth’s plan was the best and if not by pure luck Roth wins. If Kay doesn’t mention the drapes Mike is dead and if Fredo doesn’t tell Mike about the Senate lawyer Mike goes to jail Yes indeed. Roth's plans were brilliant, and he had backups for all of them--even arranging, after his stroke, near murder, and escape from Cuba, to nearly nail Michael at the Senate hearing. Roth was the scalpel. Barzini was the blunt instrument. He telegraphed his intentions by horning in on Corleone territory, even before Vito died. That's when Michael and Vito knew Barzini would try to kill Michael after Vito died. The only unknown at that point was the identity of the traitor who'd set up a meeting. That warm scene between Barzini and Tessio at Vito's burial answered that question. Barzini was a dead man at that point. Roth's scalpel was not sharp enough to cut through Michael As we debated in Why the Tahoe assassins? thread: Roth's plan had too many variables and the New York connection to finger Pentangeli spectacularly failed Why would Roth have backup plans? Did he foresee Mike would survive by pure luck! Roth arranging, it's his kinda town Havana Military car plan, though straightaway Red flags after the failed Tahoe shooting Yes indeed but don't know Michael's Senate hearing -- after his stroke, near murder, and escape from Cuba, his priority would have been to avoid coming back to the US and to finding a country that would take him, to save his own ass Senate hearing as you posted Drama trumps logic every time. Mike was never going to jail because of Frankie's brother's presence who was already on his way Michael like father like son I reckon, Vito the evil, ruthless, murderous original villain is seen through rose-colored glasses. He too was a cold blooded murderer . . I disagree. Any smart mobster would have a backup plan. As smart as Mike is the only reason he survived was by pure luck that can’t be denied. Vito who was better than Mike had luck on his side too. Just a fact
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Re: Roth or Barzini? Whose plan was the best?
[Re: Trojan]
#1088919
04/29/24 01:21 AM
04/29/24 01:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 449
Capri
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 449
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20. New York connection to finger Pentangeli spectacular Fail 21. Roth's scalpel was not sharp enough to cut through Michael Fail 22. save his own ass Fail Why would Roth have backup plans? Did he foresee Mike would survive by pure luck!  Mike was never going to jail because of Frankie's brother's presence who was already on his way Yes indeed. Vito the evil, ruthless, murderous original villain is seen through rose-colored glasses. He too was a cold blooded murderer. Michael like father like son Yes indeed.
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