So things like child killers are not looked down upon as much in Italy, as they are in the United States? Is that correct? The penalties are not as harsh in Italy?

the parliament have to modify the 4 bis law (life sentence aggravated by mafia-type association), and according to Baiardo, messina Denaro let police to nab him in order to go out of prison other bosses, the Graviano brothers for example

i also wonder because they nabbed him into a clinic instead to follow him in order to search his home

Here is the document that Matteo Messina Denaro had exhibited during hospital visits and interventions. The document was made out to Luca Bonafede, a surveyor by profession and resident in Campobello di Mazara. The investigators will clarify. Meanwhile, it emerged that the boss had a 35,000-euro Richard Mille watch on his wrist, "He was well dressed, good-looking, wore decidedly luxury goods," said the deputy prosecutor of the Palermo DDA, Paolo Guido.

MMD was "Helped by the Sicilian bourgeoisie", there has certainly been an important slice of the bourgeoisie who has helped Messina Denaro over the years and our investigations are now focusing on this". This was declared by the prosecutor Maurizio de Lucia who announced sweeping investigations aimed at identifying who helped him all those years.

He would have been vaccinated 3 times against covid at the Castelvetrano vaccination hub as a fragile subject. The first dose was administered on March 18, 2021.

At the end of the press conference it was confirmed that Matteo Messina Denaro "will undergo chemotherapy in an appropriate facility in the coming days".

He helped in the kidnap of the boy in an attempt to blackmail his father into not giving evidence, but I don't think he was involved in the murder. two years later. The murderers were Enzo Brusca, Vincenzo Chiodo and Salvatore Monticciolo on the orders of Giovanni Brusca.

Brusca was much worse he stated that he had between 200 and 300 murders on his conscience, but could not remember the exact number. He became pentito and is now a free man doesn't make sense does it?

Brusca,Marchese,Bagarella and Scarpuzzedda were the worst of the worst,but at the end of the day,they are all the same scum and they deserve same faith and that is prison.

How someone so wanted can stay in the country which is about the size of 3 US states is baffling to me.
Either Italy is hugely corrupt, the citizens fear or help them avoid police or, he is a better master of disguise than Ace Ventura was.

My thinking is limited to the area I live so what do I know?

I saw a documentary on a country in Africa where the actual police will pull you over an extort you. Crazy!

I need to travel more.

True and now all Cupola members have been caught. He was never part of the core Corleonesi he came up after most of the bloodshed in the 80s/90s. But participated in a series of mafia murders committed between Alcamo, Marsala and Castellammare between 1989 and 1992. The Court of Marsala recognized him for the first time as a boss in 2012.

Anna Sergi said Messina Denaro’s arrest would pose new problems for the organisation.

“It’s very unlikely that he was dictating strategy, but he had a role in keeping the identity of the Cosa Nostra alive,” she added. “He was the symbolic gatekeeper, the glue of the organisation. Unless someone can have the same charisma, the same power of aggregation, it’s unlikely that the Cosa Nostra can come out of this untouched.”

I call bullshit. It would actually help to have someone with no ties to the disaster of the late 1980s and early 90s.

Yes it's another day now many younger guys and in Palermo you still have the old families.

Sicily and Calabria are beautiful places, but the problem of organized crime is a problem in many countries.

In the normal society child killers are looked down upon everywhere, that's undisputable (I'm talking about civilians). How Italian mobsters view it I'm not sure, but they're sure as shit willing to kidnap, torture and kill a child of a rival to get to him.

My question was more in a sense of if US mobsters had the same opportunities, do you think they would have taken them? IE if a John Gotti or a Michael Franzese or any number of mobsters would be able to get away with kidnapping and killing a son of a mafia rival if they would do it? Especially if others are doing it as well - I think they would.

But since no one in the US is doing it, then they're not doing it.

I agree with your original statement as well that he's a piece of shit who doesn't deserve one good thing happening to him for the rest of his life.

they found his home in Campobello di Mazara

https://tg24.sky.it/cronaca/2023/01/17/matteo-messina-denaro-covo-video

it would be true if it were a genuine arrest, but Baiardo's statements suggest otherwise

Arrest Messina Denaro, the story of Maddalena's patients: "He was a kind and elegant person"
by: Redaction - of 2023-01-17

Matteo Messina Denaro , who was known at the "La Maddalena" in Palermo as Andrea Bonafede , was arrested right there, in that clinic where he was being treated for a probable tumor (in fact he was doing oncological therapies).

According to a gentleman of the clinic, he had a kind, elegant manner and a very formal language, with a scarf around his neck, which also appeared in a photo in the possession of the investigators of the case. "We were in the same room - a patient told Gds.it - ??he was a kind person, very kind" . And then she adds: «There are also friends of mine who have his phone number, he sent messages to everyone. He exchanged messages with a friend of mine until yesterday morning » .

In reality, this unknown Bonafede was none other than the last godfather born in Castelvetrano in 1963.

yes but according to a doctor he did try to escape.

some carabinieri in war gear, he escaped, went out to the bar and they caught him. He tried to escape to the bar and there was a lot of commotion ” .

when the carabinieri asked him who he was he immediately replied 'I'm Messina Denaro', I don't think he tried to escape in fact the carabinieri did not tell it. Baiardo practically said that they would arrest him on the same day as Riina because there is still an ongoing negotiation with the state. Baiardo managed the Graviano brothers while they were on the run, so he sends messages

There were no chance of him escaping , he is very ill , late stage cancer.We will never known the truth what lead to his arrest, maybe it was deal with the state like Baiardo said, same with Riina and Provenzano arrest , we will never really know what happened and what really led to their downfall.

If this is true lol! Imagine texting with someone and finding out they're one of the most notorious mafiosos of all time.

Paolo Borsellino's brother Salvatore said:

Before being killed my brother said "when I am killed it will have been the Mafia who killed me, but it will have been others who wanted my death"; today one of the main perpetrators of the massacre in which my brother lost his life is in prison, but unfortunately there are too many mysteries about who wanted Paul's death.What changes today? It changes little, the fact that Messina Denaro has been arrested means that there is someone who replaces him. Not only that, there is the serious suspicion that this arrest is the result, once again, of an unholy negotiation in the face of the concession of points from Riina's papello.

There two rumors roday:one is that Messina Denaro after 30 y on the lam and with a serious cancer,decided to surrender to the carabinieri,and this is a reason why he haven't the cuffs when was arrested and one more but that doesn't have much credit and in fact I don't believe it either, is that he was abandoned by the other mafiosi to stop the pressure from the forces of order.

The Carabinieri del Ros, after hours of searching, have identified the hideout of the boss Matteo Messina Denaro , arrested yesterday at the Maddalena clinic in Palermo. It is in Campobello di Mazara, the town of the facilitator Giovanni Luppino , who ended up in handcuffs together with the mafia boss, and of Andrea Bonafede , under whose false name the fugitive was hiding.

The hiding place is located in an anonymous yellow two-story building and is in the town center in vicolo San Vito (formerly via Cv31). After the night search, it was manned by the Carabinieri and then at 8.30, the men from the Messina Scientific Investigations Department arrived and are sifting through the house.

The Captain of the Carabinieri of the company of Mazara del Vallo Domenico Testa was also on the spot . Messina Denaro lived in a house which in recent months, after the transfer of the owners, has remained uninhabited. Several designer clothes and perfumes were found but no weapons.

Meanwhile, the doctor who treated Andrea Bonafede, alias Matteo Messina Denaro, is under investigation . We are talking about the 70-year-old Alfonso Tumbarello , a recently retired Campobello resident, for many years a general practitioner in Campobello until December 2022. Until a few months ago he was treated by the real Andrea Bonafede. Yesterday the Carabinieri searched his homes in Campobello, Tre Fontane and the former office of the now retired doctor.

The searches were coordinated by the Deputy Prosecutor Paolo Guido , who participated in the operations. Matteo Messina Denaro, meanwhile, was transferred on a military flight to Pescara airport yesterday evening. The doors of the L'Aquila prison have opened for him, a maximum security facility in which there is a first-level cancer center.

So if i understand correctly Paolo Borsellino's brother is implying there are still negotiations between mafia and state? I thought it stopped with Riina's arrest.

according to Baiardo the negotiation was never over

Pretty much same thing Salvatore Borsellino said, but i can't think of powerful enough players to lead negotiations with the state. Why would state continue negotiations with them is beyond my understanding.

The only ones I can think of are the old Palermo families like the Inzerillo Mafia clan.

maybe Giovanni Motisi