We don't know what Fredo thinks about the drapes. Do we even know that Fredo knows about the drapes?

Fredo is complaining about many things: "Send FREDO off to do this -- send FREDO off to do that! Get FREDO to take care of some Mickey Mouse night club somewhere! Send FREDO to pick somebody up at the airport!" He's been stepped over by everybody, not just Michael.* If Tom or Neri betrayed Michael, it's a reasonable inference that they did it to become boss, because there's nothing else to tempt them with. Fredo can be bought cheaper.

Everything has to lead to the ending. If Fredo had tried to murder Michael, then why such a melancholy ending? Why is Kay saying, twenty years later, "Tony knows that you killed Fredo," instead of, "Tony knows that Fredo tried to kill me"?

*It's also not hard to scenario that Deanna is Fredo's primary frustration, especially when the deleted scene where they arrive at the party is considered.

Your questions are flawed.

Ola asking Fredo to open the drapes is total speculation. Nothing even close to that happens in the film. Anyone could have done it.

The Donship isn't brought up (explicitly) and it isn't really the issue. Fredo tells Michael exactly what the issue is - respect. He knows that nobody respects him and seems to think that helping Ola will get that for him.

Let me throw a question back at you: How could Fredo possibly think Roth can give him the Donship?

He knows that nobody respects him. Even Fredo couldn't have believed that Roth could somehow make Tom, Rocco, Neri, etc. step back and allow Fredo to take over once Michael was out of the way. And, if he wouldn't be Don, what incentive would he have to facilitate a hit?

As I've posted elsewhere, I don't believe he was promised anything in particular. He was so eager for something on his own that he jumped at vague promises from Roth and Ola.

I also agree with Pete that the impact of the ending is really minimized if you look at Fredo as just another enemy, rather than a prodigal brother who unwittingly was involved in a coup attempt and ended up losing his life over it.

I still find it EXTREMELY unlikely that Fredo had malicious intent. Just doesn’t fit his character. You can be resentful without actively trying to harm the person you have resentment for. As for the drapes as others have says we dont even know if Fredo opened them and even if he did I doubt it was because he was trying to kill his brother. Fredo is guilty of being an idiot but other than that loves his brother as we saw in the flashback scene. Look I get it Mike is the main character so the initial reaction is to root for his and justify his actions. And look when it comes to guys like Barzini, Roth, Carlo, and Tessio Mike’s actions are justified. But when it comes to Fredo it’s not

Nowhere in the film is it shown that Fredo opened the drapes. But, as we saw, Kay was surprised that the drapes were opened, and the shooters fired at Michael through the window. My conclusion is that, with thousands of people on Michael's estate for Anthony's party, Rocco would have assured that guards were posted around Michael's home to prevent people wandering in to take a look inside, or perhaps to lift a "souvenir." But Fredo would have been allowed in. And Fredo had motivation because he was cooperating with Ola against his brother.


I also believe that Ola/Roth didn't promose Fredo the Donship or anything specific. They didn't have to. We saw the depth of Fredo's resentment of Michael in the boathouse scene. Ola must have picked up a lot of that when he "bumped into" Fredo in Beverly Hills--probably over drinks.

Logically:
--Fredo seethed with resentment against Michael because he thought he should have been the Don. He said so: "I'm your older brother, Mike. And I was passed over/"
--There was only one way for Fredo to become the Don-: if his brother were no longer the Don.
--The central event in the attempt to kill Michael was opening the drapes so the attackers could have a clear field of fire on Michael.
--Fredo was the most likely person to be in a position to open the drapes, and was asked to do so by Ola.

Though Fredo may not have wanted to actively think about the consequences of his action, fhere was no logical--possible--nonviolent consequence of his opening the drapes. When he said to Michael, "I swear to God I didn't know it was gonna be a hit," I think he meant that Ola didn't explicitly tell him it was gonna be a hit--and Fredo conveniently didn't ask.

Turnbull is a good man. I believe that story. I believe that Ola wanted him to open the drapes Fredo's little help
I too can't see anyone else allowed into their home let alone -- and No one else had the motive and the incentive

Exactly We can't ignore, his outburst I'm your older brother Mike and I was stepped over! It ain't the way I wanted it!
and he can only get the Donship if the current Don was dead or sent to prison

As we'd debated previously and recently in "Something in it for me" thread: and elsewhere in this one:
Donship was Roth's empty promise carrot

the astute and meticulous Roth would have instructed Ola, to fuel Fredo's resentment and make sure Fredo listened good and inferred [Ref: *Turnbull] the reward is Donship
Fredo was Hooked! otherwise Fredo would be stuck running Mickey Mouse nightclubs somewhere!

The drapes debated above so I won't repeat

Fredo was bought cheaper! Drinks, Yolandas, Superman and he was Hooked

No doubt Fredo is complaining about many things:
I reckon Everything, All Roads lead to the Donship that he may feel will get the respect that he so desperately craves, for him.

As regards hypocrite Kay, I bet she never told him that she killed his unborn brother

convoluted, unbalanced and disjointed GF3 --
how would she know when she had been banished and everyone even Connie, the resident sister 'knows' Fredo drowned

The drapes debated above so I won't repeat

The Donship was brought up (explicitly) in his outburst and I reckon, is really the issue that he may feel will get the respect that he so desperately craves, for him.

As we'd debated previously and recently in "Something in it for me" thread: and elsewhere in this one:
Roth's empty promise carrot was Donship, made sure Fredo listened good and inferred even if without having to promise and spell out anything in particular or specific. The rightful heir and successor The only male blood Corleone if the current Don was no longer

Fredo was seething with jealousy and resentment, so consumed with being stepped over, courtesy of Johnny Ola bumped into me in Beverly Hills -- Roth knew fueling his stepped over, is the only carrot that would get him, Roth's pawn, on board

Here's the thing Roth didn't have to make the Donship happen, obviously he can't but that was never his intention, of course if that did happen, he would have Don Fredo [albeit Roth's puppet]

All Roth wanted was Michael dead exactly what he set out to do and his job done
He goes back to living his retired investor on a pension exactly as he planned

and whether we look at Fredo as just another enemy or the prodigal brother, the fact remains He betrayed his brother for personal gain.

. You still can’t present any factual evidence that Fredo acted with malicious intent to harm Mike or remove him from the Donship. On the flip side there is a mountain of evidence that shows Fredo simply was trying to do something on his own despite his stupidity he thought he was helping the Family. Like I’ve said in previous posts having resentment and actually maliciously acting out that resentment are two separate things. Most of us had had some type of those feelings yet rarely act them out. At the end of the day the only brother who maliciously harmed his brother was Mike since he murdered Fredo. That’s a fact that can’t be denied

I heartily agree Crush. There is no evidence of Fredo's nefarious intent.

Extracts:
Makes no sense to me as well that Kay knew? Michael killed? Fredo when everyone 'knows' Fredo drowned

Anyhow even if so, Kay must also know that Fredo was complicit in the Tahoe shooting but Kay as always throwing Michael under the bus even after all those years!

Why would Kay even tell Anthony if it was Kay who did - was it leverage for Michael to let Anthony go....

Kay tells Michael "to let Tony go free to have his own life Away from Michael" or similar but weren't Kay and their children Anthony and Mary were already and have been away from Michael for several years since Michael entrusted their children's education to Kay, their mother for their own best interests because the Corleone money, power and resources couldn't cut it!

It was all about Anthony's education and Michael was being the loving father, genuinely wanting Anthony to get his law degree first – the insurance, Michael missed out on

Kay of all people ought to know the importance of education and should have encouraged Anthony and been supportive instead of throwing Michael under the bus, as always - That's your father, Anthony It's not me

Besides have you heard Anthony sing?!!

Sure thing Pete Deanna humiliating Fredo in front of everyone that Fredo is not a real man etc. and Fredo having to admit he can't control his wife, certainly wouldn't have helped but then again! Fredo was going to be the Don after that night's shooting up of Michael's bedroom Who is real man! now

"Roth's inside man Fredo's own words" - “something in it for me -- on my own” for Fredo's "little help" to Ola

Extracts:

Turnbull is a good man! I believe that story. The fact remains “He betrayed his brother for personal gain” whether “unwittingly [or otherwise] Fredo was involved in a coup attempt” which could have wiped out the entire Michael Corleone family Sure thing Fredo was the only contender with “the motive and the incentive” for opening the drapes “because he was cooperating with Ola against his brother”

My take as well, Fredo's something in it for me was [Roth's empty promise carrot] the Donship and Fredo's little help was opening the drapes thus identifying Michael's bedroom


“Let’s be honest Michael initially did give him [Fredo] a pass” Ref: Desert Inn until Fredo's full extent of Fredo's deeper involvement with Roth against his kid brother and treachery were revealed in Fredo's outburst in the boathouse
Nevertheless and in spite of all the mounting evidence pointing to Fredo indeed set out to harm and injure his brother Michael, for the Donship and the fact remains “He betrayed his brother for personal gain”

Spot on! Can't trump that!

You are right The fact remains “He betrayed his brother for personal gain” whether “unwittingly [or otherwise] Fredo was involved in a coup attempt” which could have wiped out the entire Michael Corleone family

Fredo “gave information to the Family's adversaries, opened the drapes [thus identifying] Michael and Kay's bedrooom” which was used to attempt the hit

All things considered, when all is said and done, “something in it for me -- on my own” was, in my view as well, the Donship [Roth's empty promise carrot] and the only way this could happen is if the current Don, Michael was dead or in prison

The Jury reached a guilty verdict from what we saw in the movie based on all the supporting evidence and speculation!
The Judge sentenced Fredo to a lifetime of sleeping with the fishes!

Spot on! Very murky indeed Coppola and Puzo did us a huge favour!

My take too, Coppola and Puzo were mystified, clueless themselves at explaining so just left things hanging but we are not going silent about it! We'll get there! Pete -- we'll get there --

That's the Beauty of these films that we are still debating half a century on, in the spirit of this nice Board - Thanks! J Geoff - mainly because perhaps no interpretations / speculations are wholly accurate or inaccurate....

I don't -- look -- I don't have this Forum's brain! but my Godfather journey here continues to be fun, informative and enjoyable
Learning from our Godfather melting pot of riveting perspective Let's keep them coming!

The drapes being open is a central event because we actually see that and because Fredo confesses to something and opening the drapes is about the only part of the assassination that we can imagine Fredo pulling off. Admitting or concealing the shooters, the shooting itself, and murdering the shooters are also pretty important events.

The only non-violent speculation I've ever come up with for why Fredo would open the drapes is that Roth's people would want to search Michael's office. So they had to know when Michael was turning in for the night. I think that works all right if it's two sentences on a page. I think it fails, though, as dialogue between "it'd be good for the family" and "You believed that story?" So, for me, that's where Coppola and Puzo just stop - with a strong emotional story, but with the details intentionally left ambiguous.

"Roth's inside man Fredo's own words" - “something in it for me -- on my own” for Fredo's "little help" to Ola

No doubt the drapes being open is the central event to the shooting up of Michael's bedroom Fredo's "little help"
I too can't see anyone else allowed into their home let alone -- Fredo was the only contender with “the motive and the incentive” for opening the drapes “because he was cooperating with Ola against his brother”

If he had volunteered the information he knew about the Senate hearing which he deliberately and deceitfully concealed even after his betrayal, the Tahoe shooting then "redeeming feature." perhaps could give him the benefit of the doubt but he cunningly withheld it, for Michael to commit perjury and sent to prison, to become the Don-:

Coppola and Puzo did us a huge favour! by stopping - with a strong emotional story, but with the details intentionally left ambiguous. or they didn't have the answers!

The fact remains “He betrayed his brother for personal gain” whether “unwittingly [or otherwise] Fredo was involved in a coup attempt” which could have wiped out the entire Michael Corleone family

He can't admit because of "I swear to God I didn't know it was gonna be a hit,"
can't see him with the shooting itself, and murdering the shooters

As regards concealing the shooters, They're lying there dead! outside his window
I reckon, they may have been told he would help hide them but it was for them to be killed by the third assassin

Who killed the Tahoe assassins-:

Please explain how Fredo, opening the drapes to Michael and Kay's bedroom on Johnny Ola's orders, did not have nefarious intent.

. We still don’t know for sure if he did. Secondly it’s already established Fredo is stupid. Its also established how strategic and brilliant Roth is. Let’s be honest Fans talk about how intelligent Mike is but Roth was outsmarting him before the events of the movie began and throughout most of the film so he could easily do that to Fredo. I could easily see Roth spinning it a way that makes it look like they are trying to help Mike. Again there is nothing in Fredo’s character in the films that show him being ruthless especially toward his own flesh and blood. People like to bri g up his “resentment “ but like I’ve said a few times in this thread pretty much everyone has some type of resentment in their life but they rarely act in it. I understand the need to justify Mikes evil actions since he is the main character but the films are about a man who wants to live a good life outside of the mob but eventually goes down the dark path and pretty much loses his soul(until Part 3). In Part 3 we see that Fredo’s murder was senseless and not justified which is why Mike is so tormented

Just a note: I don't think that Fredo's demeanor on the day of the party is that of someone who thinks he's about to take over. Especially bursting in to tell Michael that Frankie's there and sadly unburdening himself to Michael about Deanna, it just seems like he still sees Michael as his reference point.

Exactly Pete. I believe there is even a deleted scene from the party where Fredo is telling his wife that important people are there for Mike and Kay and she needs to behave herself since Mike is the boss. Now if Fredo knew Mike was on his way out I doubt he be too worried about what Mike thinks. Look everyone has a right to their opinion but I just don’t see much if any evidence that Fredo had malicious intent to either help kill Mike or incapacitate him to the point where he couldn’t lead the family. I think the simple truth is that he wanted to do something on his own that would gain him respect and in his mind help the Family. Was it stupid? Absolutely BUT was it worth a death sentence? I don’t think so when comparing it to Corleone traitors who we know actively help try to kill Mike, Vito, and Sonny.

And Fredo -- well -- -- Fredo was -- well -- was deemed weak and stupid to be the Don.
I too reckon, Fredo is even more cunning, devious and ruthless than Vito and Michael put together! and Vito may have picked the wrong son! for Donship

recapping -- the facts remain,
“He betrayed his brother for personal gain” whether “unwittingly [or otherwise] Fredo was involved in a coup attempt” which could have wiped out the entire Michael Corleone family

Fredo “gave information to the Family's adversaries, opened the drapes [thus identifying] Michael and Kay's bedrooom” which was used to attempt the hit

We can't ignore, his outburst I'm your older brother Mike and I was stepped over! It ain't the way I wanted it!

Fredo was seething with jealousy and resentment, so consumed with being stepped over
and he can only get the Donship if the current Don was dead or sent to prison

The Donship was brought up (explicitly) in his outburst and I reckon, is really the issue that he may feel will get the respect that he so desperately craves, for him.

“Let’s be honest Michael initially did give him [Fredo] a pass” Ref: Desert Inn until Fredo's full extent of Fredo's deeper involvement with Roth against his kid brother and treachery were revealed in Fredo's outburst in the boathouse

If he had volunteered the information he knew about the Senate hearing which he deliberately and deceitfully concealed even after his betrayal, the Tahoe shooting then "redeeming feature." perhaps could give him the benefit of the doubt but he cunningly withheld it, for Michael to commit perjury and sent to prison, to become the Don-:


True Pete Fredo was the only contender with “the motive and the incentive” for opening the drapes “because he was cooperating with Ola against his brother”

Look -- we are all reasonable Godfather fans here; That was my two cents worth but interested in others' perspective, interpretations / speculations as to,
1. who else had the motive and incentive to open the drapes
2. what was his “little help” -- it'd be good for the family
3. what was “something in it for me -- on my own”
4. why bring up the Donship (explicitly) in his outburst if he was not after to be Don
5. what was he doing cooperating with Ola against his brother” in the first place
6. why did he deliberately and deceitfully conceal the Senate hearing
7. why did he cunningly withhold the information he knew
8. why was he seething with jealousy and resentment, so consumed with being stepped over if it was not an issue
9. how Fredo, opening the drapes to Michael and Kay's bedroom on Johnny Ola's orders, did not have nefarious intent.

I'm confused by the use of "motive and incentive." Anyone who was assisting Roth would have motive and incentive to open the drapes. We don't know who that might be, but it seems unlikely that Fredo was the only traitor involved in the hit.

If you mean "opportunity," anyone involved in Corleone security might have access to the drapes, including Rocco who is often listed as a possible traitor in the family.

What is Fredo's failure, anyway? He tells Michael he never met Roth or Ola, then lets slip that he's been with Ola in Havana. What else?

. Seems like you’re desperately looking for something that isn’t there. Now Fredo is devious and cunning? I mean come on

4. Fredo's character is completely changed from the novel to the first movie, and changed quite a bit again from the first to second movie. Fredo was learning under Moe Green. By GF2, Moe is gone and the Corleones have four hotels, so you'd think Fredo would be of some use to the family. Instead, he's running brothels and seems to be someone Michael wouldn't take a meeting with if Fredo wasn't his brother. What happened? We don't know.

6. What everyone knows about the Senate hearing is one of the most curious questions in GF2. We know the Senate lawyer Questadt was right behind Roth in Havana, in Michael's direct line of sight. Why? We don't know.

8. I'll suggest again that Fredo may have some motivation based in sexual frustration. This is evidenced by the deleted scene (which I think is included in some versions) where he and Deanna arrive at the party, by Deanna's mocking of him at the party, and by his confession to Michael that Fredo should have married a woman like Kay. It's all reminiscent of the very opening of the novel, where Johnny [edit] has professional problems but hits rock bottom because he can neither subdue nor satisfy his movie star wife.

Sure thing “I too can't see anyone else allowed into their home let alone” -- their bedroom and “anyone involved in Corleone security” would really have no business? being inside their Boss' bedroom So my take too, that leaves only Fredo

Extracts:
You are right Pete Rocco was discussed as a possible traitor and if my memory serves me right, was disregarded because if there was any suspicion at all, Rocco would be sleeping with the fishes when Michael returned from Havana, certainly not continuing to guard the lives of Michael, Michael's wife and their children -- the future of this family

Besides no way! Rocco knew what happened to Paulie – extermination!

Among others -

• "He tells Michael he never met Roth or Ola, then lets slip that he's been with Ola in Havana" [you mean Superman?!]
• Fredo's “little help” -- for “something in it for me -- on my own”
• Fredo kept the Senate hearing secret, from Michael
• Fredo withheld the information he knew, from Michael

“married a woman like Kay” No kidding!

Sadly Fredo was not part of Family matters nor Family business nor....And Fredo -- well -- Fredo was -- well --
Michael “wouldn't take [Fredo] to meetings perhaps because of Fredo's outburst at Greene-Michael meeting in Vegas “taking sides against the Family”

My take, we do know Fredo undoubtedly knew "about the Senate hearing" which Fredo "deliberately and deceitfully concealed even after his betrayal, the Tahoe shooting then cunningly withheld" the information from Michael

Fredo was living the life of his dreams! banging cocktail waitresses two at a time! away from all the challenges, difficulties and violence of Mob life back in New York

Then his kid brother is the Don....Fredo is running the brothels but Geary is the one having all the fun!

It could be a combination of all these factors –
1. loss of his dream life
2. loss of his good friend Moe
3. loss of the Donship
4. "sexual frustration"

No wonder Fredo jumped at the opportunity for the 'respect' of being "Roth's inside man” for “something in it for me -- on my own” for Fredo's "little help" to Ola Give this man a cigar!

I'm sure we're all quite impressed, particularly with your love for our Godfather facts

Whilst we can't ignore all the treacherous events leading up to Michael's painful decision, Michael still could have spared Fredo

Michael only made the decision to withdraw the pass Michael had given Fredo Ref: Desert Inn when it came to light Fredo's deep rooted jealousy and resentment - I'm your older brother Mike and I was stepped over! It ain't the way I wanted it! and after Fredo's grudging "The Senate Lawyer Questadt -- he belongs to Roth"

Extracts:
perhaps it was a twinge of conscience! that is the last time Fredo would 'sadly' see Michael alive!

Whilst tongue in cheek....Vito may have picked the wrong son!

Years ago, an alert poster spotted Questadt in that scene--I don't think anyone else had posted on that before. Then another poster turned up an earlier script treatment in which Michael was supposed to meet with Questadt in Havana; it was abandoned (jthere must be dozens of jettisoned treatments somewhere, along with heaven knows how many thousands of feet of film). My guess is that FFC was working from the earlier script when he included Questadt in the scene. All of the Hanvana scenes were filmed in the Dominican Republic. But, after he abandoned Michael meeting with Questadt, he couldn't return to the island to reshoot the scene without Questadt, and left it in, hoping no one would notice.



The quarreling couple emerged from a '57 Mercedes Benz 300SL Gullwing Coupe in that deleted scene. It was the most expensive import car sold in thr US that year. Fedo must have been doing very well int the Mickey Mouse nightclub business.

“I too can't see anyone else allowed into their home let alone” -- their bedroom and “anyone involved in Corleone security” would really have no business? being inside their Boss' bedroom So my take too, that leaves only Fredo -- only "Roth's inside man Fredo did it

Fredo undoubtedly knew "about the Senate hearing" which Fredo "deliberately and deceitfully concealed even after his betrayal, the Tahoe shooting then cunningly withheld" the information from Michael -- Michael prison Fredo Don

“married a woman like Kay” No kidding! -- Horror Kay Biggest hypocrite

Fredo is running the brothels but Geary is the one having all the fun!

I know the fun of these boards is to engage in speculation about things we don't see on screen but at least the speculation is usually grounded in things we do.

We don't see who opens the drapes but some of the posters here have made the assumption that Fredo did and have built all kinds of theories on that nonfactual foundation. Many of the posts here, as Don Lucchesi would say, are built on mud.

You can't credibly argue that Fredo knew it was a hit or was promised the Donship or anything else if your primary piece of evidence is "Well, he opened the drapes." Because you don't know that he did.

Pete has a very lucid post about an alternative theory (which I happen to agree with). He's been dismissed and shouted down.

I support the argument that it was likely one of the extra security men that was brought in to the party. It's certainly reasonable to think that security would have access to the bedrooms. Seems silly that they would be forbidden from inspecting the house prior to Michael's return.

Another point in favor of the traitor being a muscle guy is that it also provides an answer to the other big question from that scene: Who killed the assassins?

Unless we're going to say that the Fredo of GFII was not only "cunning and devious" but also an accomplished killer, there being a different inside man from Rocco's crew seems much more likely.