GangsterBB.NET


Funko Pop! Movies:
The Godfather 50th Anniversary Collectors Set -
3 Figure Set: Michael, Vito, Sonny

Who's Online Now
2 registered members (m2w, 1 invisible), 139 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
NEW!
Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Newest Members
TheGhost, Pumpkin, RussianCriminalWorld, JohnnyTheBat, Havana
10349 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
Irishman12 69,753
DE NIRO 44,966
J Geoff 31,311
Hollander 27,489
pizzaboy 23,296
SC 22,902
Turnbull 19,635
Mignon 19,066
Don Cardi 18,238
Sicilian Babe 17,300
plawrence 15,058
Forum Statistics
Forums21
Topics42,985
Posts1,074,834
Members10,349
Most Online1,100
Jun 10th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Truman and the Mob #1056365
04/14/23 12:56 PM
04/14/23 12:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Back in the days I used to write about many close political connections which the Outfit used to own, and in fact members from other families couldn't believe that the Chicago group had those types of connections and even having made guys in such high circles.

I also wrote about many killings such as the 1926 hit on Chicago States Attorney William McSwiggan, the 1928 murder of African-American lawyer Octavius Granady who ran for Republican committeeman against Mayor Thompson, the 1935 murder of State Representative Albert J. Prignano aka "Al" Prignano (he was married to one of Gus Alex's sisters), the 1936 hit on Democratic rep Michael Galvin, the 1948 murder of William John Granata, the Republican candidate who was running against State Representative James Adduci (possible made guy), or in 1949 when assistant state's attorney Frank Christensen was also shot to death, or the hits on Charles Gross, the Republican Committeeman in 1952 and the one in 1953 on Clem Graver, a state representative and 21st Ward Republican Committeeman, or even the 1963 hit on African-American alderman Ben Lewis from the 24th Ward.

We must not forget that every political murder in which the Chicago mob was involved in, was to make place or cleared the way for their new and more trusted political candidate who was going to serve at their pleasure, at any time.

Also, we all heard about rumors regarding some US presidents allegedly being connected to the US Mob, either directly or through some family members, but I think I never mentioned Harry Truman in any of my past projects and it seems this guy was the real deal.

Again, we know that Truman was the 33rd president of the United States who served from 1945 to 1953, and was also a long time leader of the Democratic Party which in fact was always closely connected to organized crime in Chicago since the late 19th century.

Two years earlier or in 1943 the Outfit's complete top leadership was imprisoned in the infamous Hollywood extortion case, and so the whole national mob was involved in finding way for the early release of Chicago's bosses. Huge part of the Chicago Outfit was involved in collecting "corruption" cash or donations from all the crews and some members and associates were assigned to spread the cash to high level political individuals. Some sources say that even New York boss Frank Costello was allegedly involved in the whole operation, mainly because of his political contacts.

As I previously said that Truman became President in 1945, "coincidentally" the same year when "somebody" finally granted the wish of Chicago's bosses to be transferred from the Atlanta prison to Leavenworth since it was closer to Chicago. The wardens of both prisons protested against the decision but still the bosses received their wish.

Truman's name popped up for the first time that same year when Nicholas Schenck, head of Loews Movie Theatres that was owned by MGM, who was also convicted with the rest of the fellas in the extortion case, was surprisingly pardoned by President Truman and resumed his powerful position within the movie industry.

When the bosses got their early release in 1947, it became a huge political scandal but none of the alleged political faces were arrested or went to jail, and Truman's name remained clean.

As I already said in some of my past posts, during the old days I personally looked at the Giancana Double Cross book as some half-fictional project because some of the statements don't add up with the timelines and also with other important factors, BUT as time passed by I managed to find out that some of the stories were in fact true.

Lets see one of Giancana's alleged statements from the Double Cross book....

According to Giancana's brother Chuck, this what his older brother allegedly once said:

"Truman owes everything he's got to us. Pendergast (mob-related mayor of Kansas City) made him judge and then, with the Italian muscle behind him, got him to the Senate. When the 44 election came up...(Ed) Kelly here in Chicago got him on the ticket with Roosevelt. Shit, Chicago got Roosevelt and Truman nominated and elected. We were good to Roosevelt; he was good to us. He died and Truman's been our man in the White House ever since."

Now lets and try to confirm all of my previous statements, including the one allegedly made by Giancana himself.

For me personally, a wiretapped conversation is the best source and evidence regarding the Mob's inner workings and lots of other stuff.

According to the following information, we have Buffalo Mafia boss Steve Magaddino talking complimentary about Truman and also mentioned the Hollywood case and Chicago's bosses and confirms Truman's involvement in their early release. He even called Truman as "Trumetto" (lol) and also said that he came from the streets:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Now lets see this second conversation that occurred in 1962 in Chicago between Frank Glimco and Gus Alex's wife Suzanne Fueger during a family dinner. In addition, Frank Glimco was the brother of infamous Chicago member Joey Glimco and Frank was also married to one of Alex's sisters, meaning they were brothers-in-law.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

So remember even though some stories sometimes sound quite impossible, still where there's smoke there's usually fire too, and this also shows us the unlimited power which the Chicago Outfit possessed at the time.

Cheers


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056384
04/14/23 03:20 PM
04/14/23 03:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 853
Fleming_Ave Offline
Underboss
Fleming_Ave  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 853
I never knew the extent of the political killings in the Chicago area. There must have been some real high level corruption in law enforcement for them to get away with that.

Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056389
04/14/23 03:36 PM
04/14/23 03:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
H
Hollander Offline
Hollander  Offline
H

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
Interesting Toodoped. "Vote buying" is still a major strength for the Mafia in Italy.

In the USA need for margins in tight elections in certain key moments, such as John F. Kennedy's in 1960, increased Mafia influence. More connections are clearly documented during the Nixon and Reagan presidencies, when the Mob played a role in securing key voting blocs.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056462
04/15/23 12:58 AM
04/15/23 12:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
@Fleming_Ave according to one report from the 1960's, during those days the Chicago organization allegedly gave unbelievable amount of corruption cash (millions of dollars during a time period of ten years) and so it was quite normal for them to murder these fellas and also to have their own guys within the police force and Chicago's politics. They had Richard Cain (Scalzetti was allegedly a made guy) who knew everyone in the police force in and out of the city or even out of the country, they had John D'Arco (made guy) as First Ward alderman, Pat Marciano aka Marcy (First Ward secretary and made guy), Fred Roti (another alderman and made guy) etc. and this was during the 50's, 60's and 70's but if we go even further back in the past, you wont believe the situation lol. For example, as I already said in one of my previous posts, even some members and associates from other families were quite surprised from the situation in which a Chicago politician (made guy) was the only guy who able to arrange a meeting between "outsiders" and guys like Ferraro and Alex. Also, dont forget that Giancana was killed at his home while he was still allegedly under police surveillance and still nobody heard or saw anything lol. I think you get my point?!

---------------------------

@Hollander I avoided to mention the JFK situation in my Truman article because I dont want to open that can of worms and I believe you can easily understand why lol As you already said, it seems during the old days the Mob was involved in securing huge number of votes for these guys at key moments or at the last moment. Giancana also mentioned Roosevelt as their previous guy or before Truman and so it seems there were more than few presidents who sometimes worked for the pleasure of the Mob, usually only in important situations but the money was probably coming on weekly or monthly basis. Remember the Mayor Cermak situation or the alleged assassination attempt (invented by the media at the time) on Roosevelt? Well some of the evidences show that Roosevelt wasnt the real target, but instead it was probably Cermak and so the Mob again managed to finish their job. Cermak's men allegedly tried to kill Frank Nitto who in turn survived the shooting and later he and Ricca accomplished their revenge by using probably the first "Lee Harvey Oswald style" or method lol.


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056516
04/15/23 06:23 PM
04/15/23 06:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
H
Hollander Offline
Hollander  Offline
H

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
Originally Posted by Toodoped

---------------------------

@Hollander I avoided to mention the JFK situation in my Truman article because I dont want to open that can of worms and I believe you can easily understand why lol As you already said, it seems during the old days the Mob was involved in securing huge number of votes for these guys at key moments or at the last moment. Giancana also mentioned Roosevelt as their previous guy or before Truman and so it seems there were more than few presidents who sometimes worked for the pleasure of the Mob, usually only in important situations but the money was probably coming on weekly or monthly basis. Remember the Mayor Cermak situation or the alleged assassination attempt (invented by the media at the time) on Roosevelt? Well some of the evidences show that Roosevelt wasnt the real target, but instead it was probably Cermak and so the Mob again managed to finish their job. Cermak's men allegedly tried to kill Frank Nitto who in turn survived the shooting and later he and Ricca accomplished their revenge by using probably the first "Lee Harvey Oswald style" or method lol.


I understand haha it was common practice for the Mafia to deliver Teamsters Union votes at the national level at least till the 80s.

Last edited by Hollander; 04/15/23 06:23 PM.

"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Hollander] #1056552
04/16/23 03:00 AM
04/16/23 03:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Originally Posted by Hollander
Originally Posted by Toodoped

---------------------------

@Hollander I avoided to mention the JFK situation in my Truman article because I dont want to open that can of worms and I believe you can easily understand why lol As you already said, it seems during the old days the Mob was involved in securing huge number of votes for these guys at key moments or at the last moment. Giancana also mentioned Roosevelt as their previous guy or before Truman and so it seems there were more than few presidents who sometimes worked for the pleasure of the Mob, usually only in important situations but the money was probably coming on weekly or monthly basis. Remember the Mayor Cermak situation or the alleged assassination attempt (invented by the media at the time) on Roosevelt? Well some of the evidences show that Roosevelt wasnt the real target, but instead it was probably Cermak and so the Mob again managed to finish their job. Cermak's men allegedly tried to kill Frank Nitto who in turn survived the shooting and later he and Ricca accomplished their revenge by using probably the first "Lee Harvey Oswald style" or method lol.


I understand haha it was common practice for the Mafia to deliver Teamsters Union votes at the national level at least till the 80s.


I love the old days when they had trucks and cars filled with enforcers armed with baseball bats and gas pipes to "help" with election and the voters lol.

For example the 1924 Cicero elections in Chicago was historically THE most violent election that ever took place in the city.

That same type of “satellite” enforcers went to work by polling booths with machine guns to see if the local residents "voted right". So the violence continued with cars filled with gunmen who paraded on the streets of Chicago and few hoods even entered the office of the Democratic campaign workers and shot one worker in both of his legs and held him against his will with eight other campaign workers until the elections were over. Also Stanley Stanklevich, another Democratic worker, was kidnapped and again 8 others were held as prisoners.

They even riddled with bullets the headquarters of the Democratic candidate for president and so the poor guy fled the scene in panic with bullets whistling at his heels and took refuge in a nearby house and stayed there until the police came to escort him safely to the station. Another incident occurred when the Democratic candidate for town clerk William Pflaum was beaten by six men at his own residence. He was beaten over the head with pistols and then the gangsters fired few shots in the ceiling and then they fled the scene. But some of the people around Pflaum’s residence heard the shots and so they curiously gathered around the house and so when the hoodlums got out, they started punching the curious people with brass knuckles and also with their pistols. Also eight people, including one 14-year old boy, who passed around Democratic flyers on the streets, were severely beaten by unknown hoodlums that same day.

It was a total chaos lol.


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056566
04/16/23 12:24 PM
04/16/23 12:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
H
Hollander Offline
Hollander  Offline
H

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
Interesting, Those 'political machines' in Chicago, NYC, Kansas City and other cities are fascinating stuff. Real Democracy hehe.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056567
04/16/23 12:35 PM
04/16/23 12:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19
cleveland to las vegas
V
vegasbuckeye Offline
Wiseguy
vegasbuckeye  Offline
V
Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19
cleveland to las vegas
Originally Posted by Toodoped
@Fleming_Ave according to one report from the 1960's, during those days the Chicago organization allegedly gave unbelievable amount of corruption cash (millions of dollars during a time period of ten years) and so it was quite normal for them to murder these fellas and also to have their own guys within the police force and Chicago's politics. They had Richard Cain (Scalzetti was allegedly a made guy) who knew everyone in the police force in and out of the city or even out of the country, they had John D'Arco (made guy) as First Ward alderman, Pat Marciano aka Marcy (First Ward secretary and made guy), Fred Roti (another alderman and made guy) etc. and this was during the 50's, 60's and 70's but if we go even further back in the past, you wont believe the situation lol. For example, as I already said in one of my previous posts, even some members and associates from other families were quite surprised from the situation in which a Chicago politician (made guy) was the only guy who able to arrange a meeting between "outsiders" and guys like Ferraro and Alex. Also, dont forget that Giancana was killed at his home while he was still allegedly under police surveillance and still nobody heard or saw anything lol. I think you get my point?!

---------------------------

@Hollander I avoided to mention the JFK situation in my Truman article because I dont want to open that can of worms and I believe you can easily understand why lol As you already said, it seems during the old days the Mob was involved in securing huge number of votes for these guys at key moments or at the last moment. Giancana also mentioned Roosevelt as their previous guy or before Truman and so it seems there were more than few presidents who sometimes worked for the pleasure of the Mob, usually only in important situations but the money was probably coming on weekly or monthly basis. Remember the Mayor Cermak situation or the alleged assassination attempt (invented by the media at the time) on Roosevelt? Well some of the evidences show that Roosevelt wasnt the real target, but instead it was probably Cermak and so the Mob again managed to finish their job. Cermak's men allegedly tried to kill Frank Nitto who in turn survived the shooting and later he and Ricca accomplished their revenge by using probably the first "Lee Harvey Oswald style" or method lol.


If you ever do want to open that can of worms with Chicago's connection JFK's assassination I'd love to hear it. I just recently found out how many Outfit guy;s got whacked before having to testify for senate committees. (Roselli, Sam, Nicoletti)

Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056600
04/16/23 05:08 PM
04/16/23 05:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
H
Hollander Offline
Hollander  Offline
H

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
I read some stuff about the Pendergast Machine amazing how easy you can influence a superpower.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Hollander] #1056678
04/17/23 03:08 AM
04/17/23 03:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Originally Posted by Hollander
I read some stuff about the Pendergast Machine amazing how easy you can influence a superpower.



Yeah I agree since during the old days KC was also probably one of the bloodiest cities at the time and their corruption in and out of the city was unbelievable.

I also cant forget one of Jake Guzik's statements when he got arrested and was questioned regarding the murder of James Ragen and so Guzik taken to Scotland Yard and the investigators started questioning him about the alleged threats made on Ragen before his death. The investigators already had info previously given by the late Ragen that he was allegedly visited by Accardo, Guzik and Humphreys.

So the cops asked Guzik to take the lie detector and he replied “Captain, what’s the use of kidding ourselves?! If I took a lie test, 30 of the biggest men (politicians) in Chicago would be diving out of high story windows and I’d have to hit myself in the head”. (lol)



Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: vegasbuckeye] #1056705
04/17/23 11:21 AM
04/17/23 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Originally Posted by vegasbuckeye


If you ever do want to open that can of worms with Chicago's connection JFK's assassination I'd love to hear it. I just recently found out how many Outfit guy;s got whacked before having to testify for senate committees. (Roselli, Sam, Nicoletti)



Well Ill just make three or four statements or facts.

1. As I already said in my previous posts, the Chicago Outfit killed lots of politicians with the blink of an eye and had U.S. Presidents in their back pocket.

2. We have numerous wiretapped conversations between members and associates from different families from around country trash talking the Kennedys (especially the two brothers), out of obvious reasons because they didnt represent a problem only for the New York, Chicago, Tampa and New Orleans syndicates but instead they represented a threat for all national Mafia families and syndicates from around the country. I personally never stumbled upon a statement about killing JFK or Bobby, but as I previously said the Mob obviously had a problem with these guys.

3. We also have numerous evidences regarding some high profile Chicago members being involved in transatlantic operations, both for their own pleasure and also for the CIA. The alleged main fellas who were involved in those CIA ops were mainly from Chicago, Tampa and New Orleans, the same bosses who were previously quite disappointed from both JFK and his brother Bobby. But above all, the CIA was allegedly also mad at JFK for "screwing up" the Bay of Pigs operation, in which many CIA agents and mobsters were involved in and prepared the invasion of Cuba and Castro's assassination. So its quite possible that was additional fuel to the hatred which the Mob had for the Kennedys, meaning i n their eyes a lot of time, people and finances were wasted for "nothing". In addition not all mobsters hated Kennedy for the Bay of Pigs situation, since we have one wiretapped conversation from Gus Alex (a guy who knew all about corruption) in which he quite respected the President's move or decision.

4. Ruby obviously had Mob connections and there's no question about it. He belonged to the so-called Outfit's Jewish crew since the 1930's because he grew up around guys like Jake Guzik, Joe Epstein, Lenny Patrick, Dave Yaras, Irving Weiner etc. mostly from around the Lawndale area on the city's West Side.

By the early 1940's, Ruby was allegedly one of Patrick's bookies and worked together with high profile gambling operators and killers such as William Block, Harry “The Greener” Krotish and “Yiddles” Yaras. During those days they all were associated with Jewish leader Ben Zuckerman and Outfit capo Lawrence "Dago" Mangano from the West Side, including the Jewish Lawndale area.

According to sources, Ruby grew up on Chicago’s West Side, the Lawndale area, and by 1937 he was involved in Local 20467 of the Scrap Iron and Junk Handlers Union, in which the crime syndicate showed an interest and some say that Ruby was the connection. The union was formed that same year by attorney Leon Cooke, who worked as financial secretary and was also a personal friend of Ruby.

Ruby’s contacts were John Martin, the new union president and Paul Dorfman. These two guys knew people on both sides of the line and in reality they were gangsters, especially Dorfman who in turn was with the Capone mob since the 1920's. By 1939 Ruby and his associates managed to hit the newspapers regarding some illegal stuff.

The problem allegedly occurred when Ruby brought many members to the union, signed some decent contracts and in a record time won respect among his colleagues and employees and so there is no real indication that Ruby committed any type of crime. BUT the real problem were Ruby's associates like Paul Dorfman and John Martin who in turn wanted more for them and the criminal syndicate they worked for, and so they started stealing from the union.

In December 1939, Cooke entered Martin’s office and argued over the missing money from certain junkyards and so in a pure gangster style Martin grabbed a gun from under his table and pointed it towards Cooke, who in turn began to run and received one bullet in the back. Later he went to the hospital alone and after several days, for unknown complication on the wound, Ruby's close associate Leon Cooke died at the age of 28.

In January 1940, Martin was subsequently acquitted on the ground of self-defense and according to some accounts, the ownership of the union should’ve been given to Ruby, but that didn’t happen because shortly after Cooke’s death, he allegedly refused to devote himself further to union activities and left its employ and instead devoted himself to bookmaking under auspices of Patrick and Yaras. He also worked for legitimate companies such as the Spartan Novelty Company, the Globe Auto Glass Company and the Universal Sales Company.

During the mid 1940's there was a so-called Chicago invasion over Dallas and the city's rackets, and so many Outfit members went down there so they can spread Chicago's interests and to create their own criminal monopoly. But the Chicago Outfit already had huge internal war and so they didnt have enough muscle to accomplish their Dallas invasion, meaning the whole operation went down the toilet sometime around 1946/47.

Some sources say that back in 1943 there was some problem between Ruby and Patrick regarding the bookmaking business and so that same year Ruby joined the army and returned back to Chicago in 1946 and the next year or in 1947 he went to Dallas Most mainstream sources say that in 1947 Ruby decided, on his own, to go down to Dallas but even though I dont have a straight answer, still I personally believe that wasnt the case mainly because of the business attempts which the Outfit portrayed in Dallas at the time. Story goes that Sam Yaras (Dave Yaras' brother) was one of the Outfit's associates at the time who remained in Dallas and was also one of Ruby's close associates in the bookmaking business.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After the 1963 assassination of JFK, we all know that Ruby stepped out from the crowd and shot Oswald in the chest, thus fatally wounding him on national television. When the cops hauled Ruby away from the murder scene, not far from the hallway where Oswald shouted out to the press, "I'm just a patsy," Ruby allegedly shouted out, "I've been used for a purpose."

The investigation confirms at least some of my previous statements and also shows that the cops picked up Lenny Patrick on November 25, 1963 and interviewed him. According to the FBI interview report, Patrick said he and Ruby knew each other since kids and that they both attended Shephard Grammar School, but were not close friends. Patrick also stated that he frequently saw Ruby in the old neighborhood and always spoke with him, as did everyone else who grew up on the West Side. Patrick denied having anything to do with Ruby and that the last time he saw Ruby was about 10 or 12 years prior to the assassination. Ruby’s sister Eva also said that her brother didn't manage to get in touch with Patrick so the investigators concluded there was nothing to it. The fed also questioned Jack Patrick (Lenny's brother) and he said that he also knew Ruby from the past but haven’t heard about him in quite awhile.

Next for questioning was Dave Yaras who also said that he knew Ruby as "Sparky," a young hustler and fight fan from Division and Damen Street area, 30 years ago. Yaras also stated that his late brother Sam Yaras, who also resided in Dallas, was acquainted with Ruby.

Irwin Weiner was also questioned and he also admitted knowing Ruby from the old days but hadn’t done any contacts in years.

Later reports showed that Ruby and Patrick had contacts a month prior the assassination. Reports showed that Ruby had also contacted Weiner in October 1963 and also made few telephone calls in Chicago to Patrick and Yaras.

But for “unknown” reasons the Warren Commission investigators credulously accepted the word of these lying and murderous Chicago hoodlums and accepted the fact that Ruby had no underworld ties. I think that Ruby’s sister was also forced to lie out of fear for her life and her family’s lives.




Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056725
04/17/23 01:17 PM
04/17/23 01:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 412
B
Big_Tuna93 Offline
Capo
Big_Tuna93  Offline
B
Capo
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 412
In my youth, I truly believed the CIA worked with members of the mob to conspire to kill Kennedy. As I've aged a little bit more I have gravitated to the lone gunman theory. There most definitely are a ton of unanswered questions, though. Great stuff here, as always. Will have to give it a more thorough read later this evening!

Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056727
04/17/23 01:26 PM
04/17/23 01:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,781
D
Dwalin2011 Offline
Underboss
Dwalin2011  Offline
D
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by Toodoped


In December 1939, Cooke entered Martin’s office and argued over the missing money from certain junkyards and so in a pure gangster style Martin grabbed a gun from under his table and pointed it towards Cooke, who in turn began to run and received one bullet in the back. Later he went to the hospital alone and after several days, for unknown complication on the wound, Ruby's close associate Leon Cooke died at the age of 28.

In January 1940, Martin was subsequently acquitted on the ground of self-defense

Some decisions in trials are really insane imo: how can it be self-defense if the victim is shot in the back? confused


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056728
04/17/23 01:34 PM
04/17/23 01:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Originally Posted by Dwalin2011
Originally Posted by Toodoped


In December 1939, Cooke entered Martin’s office and argued over the missing money from certain junkyards and so in a pure gangster style Martin grabbed a gun from under his table and pointed it towards Cooke, who in turn began to run and received one bullet in the back. Later he went to the hospital alone and after several days, for unknown complication on the wound, Ruby's close associate Leon Cooke died at the age of 28.

In January 1940, Martin was subsequently acquitted on the ground of self-defense

Some decisions in trials are really insane imo: how can it be self-defense if the victim is shot in the back? confused

There was allegedly a huge confrontation and the two men started a fight. So Martin probably got his ass kicked and when Cooke turned his back at him, Martin fired a shot.

Those were the so-called "wheels of Mob justice" which spun every time when one of its valuable members or associates was in trouble with the law lol

Martin and Paul Dorfman were taking over the garbage business for the Outfit at the time. So no obstacles.


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056803
04/17/23 07:44 PM
04/17/23 07:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
H
Hollander Offline
Hollander  Offline
H

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
I read Murray Humphreys handled delicate negotiations with Joseph Kennedy who was the Canadian distributor of several recognized brands of Scotch and English whiskey. The Hump met with him, and divided territory, and reached an understanding on their respective interest. It is said him and Joe Kennedy consulted constantly on political matters, from 1929 until the Hump died in 1965.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Hollander] #1056900
04/18/23 11:55 AM
04/18/23 11:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Originally Posted by Hollander
I read Murray Humphreys handled delicate negotiations with Joseph Kennedy who was the Canadian distributor of several recognized brands of Scotch and English whiskey. The Hump met with him, and divided territory, and reached an understanding on their respective interest. It is said him and Joe Kennedy consulted constantly on political matters, from 1929 until the Hump died in 1965.


Yeah I heard about that "rumor" numerous times in the past and to be honest, I personally never found any real source for it. Although there might be some truth to it mainly because later we have Sinatra being a middle man between JFK and the Mob and this obviously raises the question on whether there was previously some type of an alleged deal, or maybe Sinatra was a simple "bait" for the Mob so they can get to the Kennedys. According to some convos, Humphreys wasnt much satisfied with the Kennedys but was quite angry when Charles Inglesia (English) mentioned Sinatra and the Kennedy situation in front of the feds and Roemer.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]



Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056913
04/18/23 02:22 PM
04/18/23 02:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
H
Hollander Offline
Hollander  Offline
H

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
Fascinating stuff T.

JFK probably met Meyer Lansky in Cuba he really loved the gambling and women and his father had dealings with all of them.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056975
04/19/23 10:02 AM
04/19/23 10:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,187
ne philly
merlino Offline
jesus quintana
merlino  Offline
jesus quintana
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,187
ne philly
Very cool information on all of this and how it relates to US history and especially several presidents

Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056977
04/19/23 10:46 AM
04/19/23 10:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
@merlino thanks and you're completely right since thats the dark side of some of U.S. history, which is the truth on who really controlled what or elected who, or on who gave what, and who really protected what or who, and stuff like that Lol

@Hollander...during those days if you were somebody high up in society, it was quite tough for you to get away from criminal faces, mainly because you owe them lots of votes and cash, and above all they (the Mob) almost owned everything and everywhere....presidents, politicians and known businessmen visited placed like Hurley in Wisconsin, Reno, Cuba, Vegas, Dominican Republic etc. and we must not forget the Cal-Neva hotel and casino which in fact was mostly Chicago operation but the Genoveses also had a part in it, and was visited by all types of celebrities and politicians, including the Kennedys.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

In addition, here's Alex's statement regarding his alleged support for JFK on how he handled the Cuban situation...

[Linked Image]





Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: merlino] #1056980
04/19/23 11:06 AM
04/19/23 11:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
H
Hollander Offline
Hollander  Offline
H

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
Originally Posted by merlino
Very cool information on all of this and how it relates to US history and especially several presidents


Nixon was even called the Mafia's president. He spent a lot of time down in Cuba when gambling was legal and run by the Mafia.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1056995
04/19/23 02:24 PM
04/19/23 02:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
In addition, heres one short and quite good report that explains the Giancana/Sinatra/Kennedy situation in general or in plane words.

[Linked Image]





Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1057001
04/19/23 05:05 PM
04/19/23 05:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
H
Hollander Offline
Hollander  Offline
H

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,489
We also should not underrate the role of J. Edgar Hoover, who denied the existence of the Mafia till 1957, while the FBI knew of the Havana Conference in 1946 and other big meetings.

Last edited by Hollander; 04/19/23 05:34 PM.

"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Hollander] #1057092
04/20/23 06:51 AM
04/20/23 06:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Originally Posted by Hollander
We also should not underrate the role of J. Edgar Hoover, who denied the existence of the Mafia till 1957, while the FBI knew of the Havana Conference in 1946 and other big meetings.


Hoover is a whole different mistery. There are lots of myths surrounding his life and work, but there are also more than few unanswered questions. The biggest laugh I had regarding this situation was when the FBI arrested and labelled a band of Sicilian Mafiosi from the early 1930s as "Sicilian communists" Lol


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Hollander] #1057133
04/20/23 12:43 PM
04/20/23 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,187
ne philly
merlino Offline
jesus quintana
merlino  Offline
jesus quintana
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,187
ne philly
Originally Posted by Hollander
Originally Posted by merlino
Very cool information on all of this and how it relates to US history and especially several presidents


Nixon was even called the Mafia's president. He spent a lot of time down in Cuba when gambling was legal and run by the Mafia.



And the time period of having some lapdog reporters and obviously no internet and lack of video surveillance lent to heavyweight politicians meeting with heavyweight gangsters without anyone really knowing. Funny how a good portion of America thinks that America was a white picket fence 2 parent suburbia and the government told the truth and was the end of the story, if Cronkrite said it then it must be true. I definitely think the CIA used the mafia in Dallas and other areas, Im 50/50 on people keeping the secret, but anyone who spoke out or knew of the plot in Dallas or the first one that was supposed to be in Tampa, were discredited in some fashion or met their untimely deaths. Thanks for this information it is really fascinating and in depth and a legit part of US history whether it is shiny or not, People get upset with certain aspects of US History and try and put in the context of 2023 or whatever and that is unfair, it is history and should be there for everyone to learn about and never be cancelled and then allow whoever is consuming that story to determine how they feel, not have a CNN or FOX talking head tell us how to feel on history.

Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1057134
04/20/23 12:48 PM
04/20/23 12:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,187
ne philly
merlino Offline
jesus quintana
merlino  Offline
jesus quintana
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,187
ne philly
Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by Hollander
We also should not underrate the role of J. Edgar Hoover, who denied the existence of the Mafia till 1957, while the FBI knew of the Havana Conference in 1946 and other big meetings.


Hoover is a whole different mistery. There are lots of myths surrounding his life and work, but there are also more than few unanswered questions. The biggest laugh I had regarding this situation was when the FBI arrested and labelled a band of Sicilian Mafiosi from the early 1930s as "Sicilian communists" Lol



Wasn't Hoover a huge gambler in his time? I love how everyone that was a little different in the 40s or 50s was a communist, thats great stuff. I also love how the mafia was like as Tony Soprano told his family, "its the 1990's out there but in here its 1954!!!" They have their code throughout all of the times and before the big FBI government crackdowns in the 90s loved the US and the government

Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: merlino] #1057138
04/20/23 01:09 PM
04/20/23 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Originally Posted by merlino
I love how everyone that was a little different in the 40s or 50s was a communist, thats great stuff.

The biggest irony in that situation was that the Mafia always hated communists more than they hated informants or the cops lol

Check out Operation Hoodwinked....the feds sent threatening letters to Mafia leaders allegedly written by communists, trying to make a conflict between the two organizations but the operation failed quickly out of obvious reasons, meaning the guys from both groups werent stupid at all lol


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: Truman and the Mob [Re: Toodoped] #1057859
04/27/23 01:30 PM
04/27/23 01:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Toodoped Offline OP
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline OP
Murder Ink

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,536
Underground
Speaking about U.S. presidents and mobsters....there's one old story regarding Chicago Mafia member (besides being Neapolitan) and West Side political crime boss Diamond Joe Esposito allegedly meeting with U.S. President Calvin Coolidge sometime around the mid 1920's, and Esposito allegedly made a business deal with the President who in turn placed his own several guys as contacts with Esposito's men in the bootlegging business. One of those few contacts was allegedly Joe Kennedy.


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

Moderated by  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

Powered by UBB.threads™