Do you think they had any kind of relationship with each other? Good or bad feelings, competition, suspicion, etc.?

I imagine Rocco and Neri might have had an unspoken competition to gain Michael's favour - obviously Neri won that one.

As for Tom, it wasn't necessary. Don Vito considered him a son. That was enough.

My take, I don't think there was competition, suspicion if any

What did Don Vito Corleone see in Rocco Lampone

The only scenes, from memory -

• Tom and Neri

The hooker murder / Geary compromise

• Tom and Rocco

The new Don Tom asserting his authority! Dead Tahoe assassinsRocco wasn't happy! taking orders from Tom

• Neri and Rocco

The Desert Inn - when Michael said to Neri and Rocco to step outside, what I found really interesting was neither Neri nor Rocco engaged in any conversation whilst waiting to get back in. It was like they both avoided and kept their distance from each other!

I agree. Michael was possessive: Rocco was Clemenza's protege, Neri was his. I think that's part of the reason that, when Michael gave the order to have Roth's plane "met," he turned to Rocco, not Neri, for that near-certain one-way mission.



That was enough when Vito, Tess and Clem were alive. Tom was raised in the Corleone home as Vito's son and Sonny's brother. Tess and Clem probably looked on Tom as a "nephew," or even a godson. They took orders from Tom because he was conveying them from Vito, whose policy was to give criminal orders to one person at a time--the better to avoid creating "corroborating witnesses" if someone turned rat.

But, Michael had no such familial feelings for Tom, and Tom's status with Michael was never certain. Yes, at Connie's weddig he introduced Tom to Kay as "my brother." Then he demoted Tom after he took over as Don. At Anthony's party in II, he tells Ola that Tom is "my lawyer," and he won't sit in on the Cuba negotiations with Ola, Neri and Rocco. After the Tahoe shooting, when he said to Tom, "You're my brother," Tom practically broke out in tears and replied, "I've always wanted to be thought of as a brother, Mike," meaning that he must always have been in doubt about it. The Master Manipulator put Tom in charge while he was away, so, Neri and Rocco took orders from him. But, Michael shouted in anger at Tom as soon as he got back. And, in the penultimate boathouse scene, he humiliated Tom in front of Rocco and Neri. Look at the smug look on Neri's face when Michael confronts Tom about an offer he got from the "House and Hotels," and tells him he can take himself, his family--and his mistress--to Vegas. Seems to me Neri was the source of that information

This theory is often floated but nothing I see supports it

We discussed in Rocco linked to Michael thread, killing Roth need not have been a suicide one-way mission
He was like a deer caught in headlights, having no escape plans whatsoever

Neri already had Fredo's job so Rocco got Roth's job

Tom's demotion was because as Vito himself put it, there are reasons why he must have no part in what is going to happen.

Tom "my lawyer," and Rocco didn't sit in on the Cuba negotiations with Ola.
Neri as Michael's bodyguard is always with him, bodyguarding him

True The Master Manipulator knew exactly which buttons to push, for brother Tom
I will have to watch again but as I remember, there were no orders from Tom to Neri

Michael shouted in anger at Tom as soon as he got back because he couldn't give him a straight answer anymore!
Sonny had lashed out at Tom too

Tom asked the question in front of Rocco and Neri. Why did you ask me if something was wrong when I came in?
So Michael answered in front of Rocco and Neri.

he's in Israel Then trying to discourage killing Roth who will always be a threat to Michael. Duh!

Wasn't it Clemenza who drew the Corleones' attention to Neri? ie: Neri was as much a Clemenza protégé as was Rocco

Sure thing Neri had already been picked for Fredo's killing So it is logical Rocco gets picked for Roth's Killing

from memory, among others -

• Rocco was the one who came over to the Church, to tell Michael that the Baptism massacre had gone swimmingly, to plan
• Rocco was the one with Michael at Hotel Washington, attending to important! papers

“Is it a boy?” scene even though Rocco was already in the Desert Inn room waiting when Michael, Neri and Tom walked in, Michael asks Neri to get him a wet towel. Michael also shakes Rocco's hand and pats him on the back

So I don't think we can read too much into such things – as to who is tasked to do what
I can't see any of Michael's men are expendable to Michael and Michael would not want to lose any of his men Let alone.... someone as established as Rocco

Difficult -- not impossible but Rocco still needed an escape plan among others -

• Michael committed a double murder including the New York Police captain in a public restaurant
• Neri killed Emilio Barzini including the driver, bodyguards, in public at the steps of the [court house?]

These murders were well planned, executed and the 'killers' got away. Rocco take note!

TOM

If you need anything, Mike, I'll be outside, alright?

[TOM walks out the door.]

MICHAEL

Just tell ROCCO we're waiting, TOM

You are not wrong! Tom sets himself up for [self] punishment! every time. Tom never learns....

Tom doesn't read the situation and wouldn't let go.... even after the dreaded Corleone stare and the decision has obviously been made, Tom can't see that the decision made will remain unchanged and whatever Tom says will make no difference whatsoever

• penultimate boathouse scene

in addition to the above,

• Fish tank scene

• Ola meeting

• Vito's surprise birthday

• Lawyer Tom

Tom lets his one and only client Michael commit up to five counts of perjury, seemingly happy! and says somewhat gleefully! that “Roth well he -- he played this one beautifully”


Then we find Fredo knew plenty

Yes, if not gleeful, definitely admiring of Roth. And yes, he did let Michael down massively. "Our people with the New York detective squad..." If they were "our people," why weren't you on top of the Pentangeli survival and arrest? Duh-h-h, Tom!

"You've opened yourself up to five counts of perjury.," he tells Michael, as if Tom had nothing to do with it, after advising his client to take the Fifth before he testified. If I were psychologizing, I'd almost be tempted to say that Tom, after taking all that abuse from Michael, was taking satisfaction from Michael's predicament.

True certainly looked that way though it is [self] punishment! every time. Also Tom's glee and satisfaction wouldn't have escaped Michael who'd have noted this disloyalty and Tom having a mistress wouldn't have sat well with him either

Michael didn't take refuge behind the Fifth amendment as it was his right to do which no doubt he never would have Nothing to hide
I don't remember, Tom advising his client to take the Fifth before he testified -- as if Also they didn't know Alive -- Pentangeli is alive.

Then trying to discourage Michael from talking to Fredo who knew plenty

He is on the run now but a man like Roth, In my home! In my bedroom! where my wife sleeps! In my home! if he was alive would risk going through it all again until he had Michael dead but Tom wanted a man in Michael's position to be made to look ridiculous! or dead.

He may not be a wartime Consiglieri but he can be deadly and ruthless, himself
1. Tessio's murder
2. hooker murder / Geary compromise
3. Pentangeli's suicide

Don Tom having had a taste of Donship, Revenge is a dish best served cold indeed

We didn't see Tom advising Michael to take the Fifth, but I'm guessing he did. it would have been in character for Tom (always advising the safe route) and Michael (thinking he was invulnerable).

Tom didn't discourage Michael from talking to Fredo when they had their private tete-a-tete in Vegas when Michael returned from Cuba--Michael asked Tom to contact Fredo. BUT: When Michael learned that Pentangeli was alive, he asked Tom what Fredo knew. Tom replied: "He says he knows nothing--and I believe him." Duh-h-h again, Tom!

True. Tom while he was evasive, didn't discourage Michael in Vegas. Also nobody knew then Fredo's deeper involvement.
It was when Michael learned that Pentangeli was alive

Tom after failing to be on top of the Pentangeli survival and arrest, says he doesn't know anything -- and I believe him like Michael won't get anything from him. Then we find Fredo knew plenty though nothing of value to Michael

Michael no doubt thinking he was invulnerable, sitting high up in the Sierra mountains, drinking Champaign, Uh, Champaign Cocktails --

Don't know taking the Fifth was the safe route for the “legitimate” Don Michael Corleone
and if Tom advised him that then he didn't know Michael, didn't know that that's an impossibility -- that could never happen as to why he didn't, couldn't, in fact never could take the Fifth Amendment. Nothing to hide

Michael looms large in everything and we have strayed from your original question!
I reckon, there were no Good or bad feelings, competition, suspicion, etc. with each other but
1. They all were fiercely protective and guarding their own territory, to hang his hat
2. I can't see Neri taking orders from Tom though
3. As we saw Rocco wasn't happy! taking orders from Tom

. Yet he made Tom acting Don after the Tahoe shooting. With Mike everything was about paranoia and turning on his family

...and control. That scene was a marvel of manipulation--"You're my brother, Tom." Tom, practically breaking into tears, "Always wanted to be considered your brother" -- meaning that Tom didn't think Michael considered him "a brother" until that point, after all those years. Michael needed him then. But, as soon as he came back from Havana, in charge again and knowing who the traitor was, Michael went right back to yelling at Tom, treating him as a subordinate.

. True. “why do you hurt me Michael? I’ve always been loyal to you what is this? Even with the whole Fredo situation Michael knew damn well that Fredo had no idea of the hit and thought he was helping but still killed him because like you said it was about control

...and also about communicating to everyone who knew about Fredo's betrayal that nobody gets a pass from Michael Corleone. That's just one of the things that make him such a reprehensible character.

. Even Al Nero who might be the most cold blooded enforcer in the series didn’t look too happy about it

True The Master Manipulator knew exactly which buttons to push, for brother Tom

Michael yelled at Tom as soon as he came back from Havana This one time -- this one time because he couldn't give him a straight answer anymore! Sonny had lashed out at Tom too


Tom asked the question in front of Rocco and Neri. Why did you ask me if something was wrong when I came in? So Michael answered in front of them.

He may not be a wartime Consiglieri but even in routine simple matters, Michael had to guide him, frustrating him.
How could he have not known about Pentangeli's survival?

He showed understanding "mercy and forgiveness" to Fredo and gave him a pass until Fredo's boathouse outburst


and Vito didn't have a brother betraying him

As regards reprehensible character -- like father like son
Vito went to the other side of the world and killed senile Don Ciccio, one leg in the grave no threat to the Corleones

. Completely disagree

He introduced to Kay My brother, Tom Hagen

Fredo and Tom Extracts:

Fredo betrayed his kid brother, Michael for personal gain "something in it for me if I'd help them out" even after
Then continued trying to harm, hurt and injure Michael by still withholding information he knew [even though it made no difference whatsoever to Michael's Senate Hearing defense] was to try and send Michael to Prison because the hit failed and that "something" arguably the Donship, Fredo so coveted, Don Fredo Corleone was not yet gained

There is no redeeming feature

Michael still looking out for his brother's welfare, to get Fredo safely back home [genuine brotherly concern for Fredo's safe passage out of Havana] even after having just learned that Fredo had betrayed Michael, nearly resulting in Michael and Kay being killed.
Oh! What a brother!

Sure thing Michael showed understanding, mercy and forgiveness to Fredo and gave him a pass until Fredo's boathouse outburst cast doubt on Fredo's claim that Fredo didn't know it was gonna be a hit

Did they have to die?