In fact, as has been well documented over the years, Jerry Catena actually wanted little part of an administration position as he aged. He strictly did it out of obligation, and was more than happy when guys would leave him along down in Florida so he could enjoy his life.
He was a multimillionaire so many times over that his wealth was almost incalculable. He had become the "Acting Boss," and after he did a long bid in Yardville for his Omertà, upon his release he just wanted to be left alone. So, he essentially became almost like a 'super consigliere' emeritus. He was NOT the boss of the family!
And quite frankly, there were many in the family who were just fine with his decision. Many guys didn't like him, for whatever reason. But I suspect it was because most of them were very jealous of the wealth and lifestyle he was able to achieve during his lifetime.
In fact, as has been well documented over the years, Jerry Catena actually wanted little part of an administration position as he aged. He strictly did it out of obligation, and was more than happy when guys would leave him along down in Florida so he could enjoy his life.
He was a multimillionaire so many times over that his wealth was almost incalculable. He had become the "Acting Boss," and after he did a long bid in Yardville for his Omertà, upon his release he just wanted to be left alone. So, he essentially became almost like a 'super consigliere' emeritus. He was NOT the boss of the family!
And quite frankly, there were many in the family who were just fine with his decision. Many guys didn't like him, for whatever reason. But I suspect it was because most of them were very jealous of the wealth and lifestyle he was able to achieve during his lifetime.
again, you haven't answered my question, where are you getting this info from?
I'm actually very surprised that you're even asking a question like that? I thought you were such a knowledgable researcher and mob aficionado?
Most of the info I recited has been very well documented by numerous sources through the years; newspapers, magazines, FBI reports, MF, FOIA files, etc., etc., etc.
You really should read more to familiarize yourself with this genre if you wanna partake in these types of conversations.
I'm actually very surprised that you're even asking a question like that? I thought you were such a knowledgable researcher and mob aficionado?
Most of the info I recited has been very well documented by numerous sources through the years; newspapers, magazines, FBI reports, MF, FOIA files, etc., etc., etc.
You really should read more to familiarize yourself with this genre if you wanna partake in these types of conversations.
Firstly, i am not a knowledgeable guy, I only know a bit about pre-1931, but im relatively familiar with some of the topics. You have WAY more knowledge than me it seems, hence why i'm holding you to such a high research standard. If you knew nothing, i wouldnt be badgering you about relatively minute things like Mineo being boss, etc.
Secondly, my question is where SPECIFICALLY did you hear that Philip Lombardo was the boss of the Genovese family from 1969-1981? what files and what testimony? you very well could be right, but from the files and from amazing researchers ive seen/talked to, i havent found that to be true.
It's NYMafia's MO to beat around the bush and dodge questions when people ask him for sources so don't take it personally. People here have problems answering that question when asked.
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Originally Posted by Sullycantwell
Originally Posted by NYMafia
I'm actually very surprised that you're even asking a question like that? I thought you were such a knowledgable researcher and mob aficionado?
Most of the info I recited has been very well documented by numerous sources through the years; newspapers, magazines, FBI reports, MF, FOIA files, etc., etc., etc.
You really should read more to familiarize yourself with this genre if you wanna partake in these types of conversations.
Firstly, i am not a knowledgeable guy, I only know a bit about pre-1931, but im relatively familiar with some of the topics. You have WAY more knowledge than me it seems, hence why i'm holding you to such a high research standard. If you knew nothing, i wouldnt be badgering you about relatively minute things like Mineo being boss, etc.
Secondly, my question is where SPECIFICALLY did you hear that Philip Lombardo was the boss of the Genovese family from 1969-1981? what files and what testimony? you very well could be right, but from the files and from amazing researchers ive seen/talked to, i havent found that to be true.
Vincent Cafaro, a soldier in the Genovese who turned said Phil Lombardo was official boss. There are wire taps and informants that showed how much power and respect he held in the family in the 1960s. Vito Genovese, and Frank Costello both trusted the guy, plus he came from the old Terranova crew. Mike Coppola would run that crew, and Benny would make a reputation in the 1950s and have a lot of mentors and knew the right people. Anthony Salerno also came from this crew. He became acting Capo over the Coppola crew but was actually the real power of the crew. There is also the last recording of a wire tap before going inactive saying Catena was looking to spend most of his time down in Florida, with Miranda saying what good will it since he stayed in New Jersey most of the time and had to be fetched to come to New York. There is more great info in the files.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Nothing wrong with beating around the bush, it just means you are making a student work harder in actually researching the subject instead of just handing them the information.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
I'm actually very surprised that you're even asking a question like that? I thought you were such a knowledgable researcher and mob aficionado?
Most of the info I recited has been very well documented by numerous sources through the years; newspapers, magazines, FBI reports, MF, FOIA files, etc., etc., etc.
You really should read more to familiarize yourself with this genre if you wanna partake in these types of conversations.
Firstly, i am not a knowledgeable guy, I only know a bit about pre-1931, but im relatively familiar with some of the topics. You have WAY more knowledge than me it seems, hence why i'm holding you to such a high research standard. If you knew nothing, i wouldnt be badgering you about relatively minute things like Mineo being boss, etc.
Secondly, my question is where SPECIFICALLY did you hear that Philip Lombardo was the boss of the Genovese family from 1969-1981? what files and what testimony? you very well could be right, but from the files and from amazing researchers ive seen/talked to, i havent found that to be true.
Vincent Cafaro, a soldier in the Genovese who turned said Phil Lombardo was official boss. There are wire taps and informants that showed how much power and respect he held in the family in the 1960s. Vito Genovese, and Frank Costello both trusted the guy, plus he came from the old Terranova crew. Mike Coppola would run that crew, and Benny would make a reputation in the 1950s and have a lot of mentors and knew the right people. Anthony Salerno also came from this crew. He became acting Capo over the Coppola crew but was actually the real power of the crew. There is also the last recording of a wire tap before going inactive saying Catena was looking to spend most of his time down in Florida, with Miranda saying what good will it since he stayed in New Jersey most of the time and had to be fetched to come to New York. There is more great info in the files.
Vincent Cafaro did say this, but lets look at other informant accounts.
Jimmy Fratianno claims Tieri was boss
Angelo Lonardo: Salerno was acting boss of the Genovese family in the late 1970s as the boss, Funzi Tieri, was sick. Salerno once told Licavoli and me that when Funzi died, he would become boss of the Genovese family.
now I ask, are we supposed to ignore all the info and blindly trust Cafaro (who even got the date he was made wrong)? keep in mind Lonardo was represented by Cleveland on the commission.
Nothing wrong with beating around the bush, it just means you are making a student work harder in actually researching the subject instead of just handing them the information.
Bingo! You happen to be 100% correct Giacomo. If the 'student' or students truly want to learn, then they'll just have to work harder. It's not my job, nor is it your job, to nurse these uneducated fellas along. Although, if I felt there was sincerity there, I might go out of my way to school em on a few things.
But, alas, I suspect that the only reason why this particular fella is really here is to be contrary, for the sake off being contrary. Regardless of what may be posted or what subject thread is started. So why should we even waste our time?
The correct answer, of course, is that we shouldn't. LOL
Nothing wrong with beating around the bush, it just means you are making a student work harder in actually researching the subject instead of just handing them the information.
Bingo! You happen to be 100% correct Giacomo. If the 'student' or students truly want to learn, then they'll just have to work harder. It's not my job, nor is it your job, to nurse these uneducated fellas along. Although, if I felt there was sincerity there, I might go out of my way to school em on a few things.
But, alas, I suspect that the only reason why this particular fella is really here is to be contrary, for the sake off being contrary. Regardless of what may be posted or what subject thread is started. So why should we even waste our time?
The correct answer, of course, is that we shouldn't. LOL
More files, again i ask to share some of yours as im showing mine.
And just so you know. I can, absolutely, positively, answer that last question succinctly and accurately about believing Cafaro over Fratianno and Lonardo. But that ain't gonna happen fellas! Simply because I wouldn't give you the satisfaction of being properly educated. I'll rather let you wallow in your ignorance. Since its a place you really seem to enjoy 'wallowing' in.
I literally commented in two threads, one saying Madison was a family and the other being this, where i critiqued your lists. If this is how you take criticism then you won't ever learn anything. Then again you are the teacher, along with GV of course. I provided evidence for all my critiques, you haven't. I really haven't been disrespectful despite your constant condescending comments.
And just so you know. I can, absolutely, positively, answer that last question succinctly and accurately about believing Cafaro over Fratianno and Lonardo. But that ain't gonna happen fellas! Simply because I wouldn't give you the satisfaction of being properly educated. I'll rather let you wallow in your ignorance. Its a place you really seem to enjoy 'wallowing' in.
The only difference between our opinions is that I provided evidence you provided... nothing. Have a good day though, maybe one day you'll learn to take criticism.
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Think that one over, a boss is only strong as his family. Let's talk here. Fratianno and Lonardo gave those statements yes. They are not part of the Genovese family. The Fish is and gave the feds Lombardo and Gigante as the bosses after Vito Genovese. Anthiny Salerno was tapped to be boss but had the stroke and Gigante became boss. So we know how Gigante rised to power. Frank Tieri was a boss, he was over New Jersey faction and pretty much did as he liked. The New Jersey faction seemed to governor themselves since 1950s, except for major issues or a Commission ruling. I believe Tieri oversaw New Jersey and made moves without New York knowing, such as Angelo Bruno and Antonio Caponigro and the fallout in Philadelphia afterwards. The guys who have become the boss after Vito Genovese in the family didn't take it boss because they wanted to but because many felt they should take the position and they did so in a sense to duty. That is why the Genovese are stronger than a lot of other families, not by their size but by their loyalty. If the Genovese wanted to be strong and keep their bosses save, then why would they tell someone outside their family who the real boss is, when all they have to say is this is the guy who is going to represent us for the other families. Example, Tony a capo knows that Carmine is now the boss of the family, but that Mario will represent the families to other families. So Tony tells Tommy of another family and Bruno of a different family who are both Capos or higher that Mario will represent us. Tony did not say that Carmine is the boss, only that Mario will represent the family, so both Tommy and Bruno believe that Mario is the boss. Thoughts?
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Well that turned ugly fast and once again I am brought up. Yet I only fired back that one time when you "Merely" mentioned me. When I gave information on Salvatore Calderone, it seems you wanted to say something else but just said "thanks". Be honest why did you really sign up and waited to post until now? Cause you make things seem innocent but with an agenda. Then when some of us talked about "it" and the kiddie fiddler, when you brought them up, you got really defensive as if we insulted you idols, heroes.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Think that one over, a boss is only strong as his family. Let's talk here. Fratianno and Lonardo gave those statements yes. They are not part of the Genovese family. The Fish is and gave the feds Lombardo and Gigante as the bosses after Vito Genovese. Anthiny Salerno was tapped to be boss but had the stroke and Gigante became boss. So we know how Gigante rised to power. Frank Tieri was a boss, he was over New Jersey faction and pretty much did as he liked. The New Jersey faction seemed to governor themselves since 1950s, except for major issues or a Commission ruling. I believe Tieri oversaw New Jersey and made moves without New York knowing, such as Angelo Bruno and Antonio Caponigro and the fallout in Philadelphia afterwards. The guys who have become the boss after Vito Genovese in the family didn't take it boss because they wanted to but because many felt they should take the position and they did so in a sense to duty. That is why the Genovese are stronger than a lot of other families, not by their size but by their loyalty. If the Genovese wanted to be strong and keep their bosses save, then why would they tell someone outside their family who the real boss is, when all they have to say is this is the guy who is going to represent us for the other families. Example, Tony a capo knows that Carmine is now the boss of the family, but that Mario will represent the families to other families. So Tony tells Tommy of another family and Bruno of a different family who are both Capos or higher that Mario will represent us. Tony did not say that Carmine is the boss, only that Mario will represent the family, so both Tommy and Bruno believe that Mario is the boss. Thoughts?
Firstly, thank you for an actual response.
You bring fair points, but i still disagree. Cleveland was represented by the Genovese on the commission and Lonardo was an underboss. He would've been intimately involved with the Genovese family's leadership. Again going off of HK's great info, Lombardo had a stroke in 1975 and even by 1978 he was said to have looked unrecognizable and could hardly speak. This, coupled with the other informants, and the FBI files i think its a safe bet to say that Lombardo wasn't boss for 12 years as Cafaro says. Cafaro didn't mention this major stroke and to me this shows his lack of knowledge of the structure.
Well that turned ugly fast and once again I am brought up. Yet I only fired back that one time when you "Merely" mentioned me. When I gave information on Salvatore Calderone, it seems you wanted to say something else but just said "thanks". Be honest why did you really sign up and waited to post until now? Cause you make things seem innocent but with an agenda. Then when some of us talked about "it" and the kiddie fiddler, when you brought them up, you got really defensive as if we insulted you idols, heroes.
I applied to this forum a while ago, and forgot about it. I then applied again recently and tried typing in GangsterBB and saw i got accepted a while ago. I joined because i believe this is the second best forum out. I have only been on these forums since June of 2022. Im not sure who "it" is or the kiddie fiddler, is one of them Angelo? I was mentioning you because you've admittedly lied in the past about info. As far as me thanking you, you're looking too critically. I literally wanted to thank you because i didn't know he was boss.
Re: "OFFICIAL" FAMILY BOSSES 1920s-2023
[Re: NYMafia]
#1064164 07/18/2304:28 AM07/18/2304:28 AM
Ppl told me that he said that hes been on THESE FORUMS since June of 2022, while on the other hand he instantly pulled out a msg from 2016 or 7 years old, and instantly defended Angelina (another liar who cant even speak Italian but pretends to be a legit Sicilian), and hes obsessed with the "consiglio" stuff. How did "Skully cant read well" know about the 2016 msg? He went through all of the threads in the graveyard section at the BH? I dont think so lol He is backed by "someone".
This means that this bullshit artist is sent here by the junkie crew to create havoc, and he obviously belong to that same group of liars and frauds. I already know who he really is and hes going to get it real bad, meaning people are dying over there from overdoses and thats what is going to happen to him too.
So again for the last time, people pls ignore him.
Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: "OFFICIAL" FAMILY BOSSES 1920s-2023
[Re: NYMafia]
#1064170 07/18/2306:16 AM07/18/2306:16 AM
Stefano (Steve) La Torre / early 1900s Santo Volpe Sr. / mid-1900s to appx 1940 Giovanni (John) Sciandra / 1940-1949 Giuseppe (Joe) Barbara Sr. / 1949-1959 Rosario (Russ) Bufalino / 1959-1994
Edward (Eddie the Conductor) Sciandra /early 1990s (It's a bit murky, but prior to Bufalino's death, this man was be believed to be one of several who helped run what was left of their borgata. Initially after Bufalino's death, Sciandra was thought to have served as interim "Acting Boss” for a time until D'Elia took over.
William (Big Billy) D’Elia /1990s forward (turned informant)
Ppl told me that he said that hes been on THESE FORUMS since June of 2022, while on the other hand he instantly pulled out a msg from 2016 or 7 years old, and instantly defended Angelina (another liar who cant even speak Italian but pretends to be a legit Sicilian), and hes obsessed with the "consiglio" stuff. How did "Skully cant read well" know about the 2016 msg? He went through all of the threads in the graveyard section at the BH? I dont think so lol He is backed by "someone".
This means that this bullshit artist is sent here by the junkie crew to create havoc, and he obviously belong to that same group of liars and frauds. I already know who he really is and hes going to get it real bad, meaning people are dying over there from overdoses and thats what is going to happen to him too.
So again for the last time, people pls ignore him.
Or… I literally went through the old graveyard threads because I found them hilarious. Who would send me here lol. If I was a liar why would I first share files here and second share a photo of Vincenzo Chiappetta that, to my knowledge, wasn’t ever seen before.
Re: "OFFICIAL" FAMILY BOSSES 1920s-2023
[Re: NYMafia]
#1064172 07/18/2306:50 AM07/18/2306:50 AM
Stefano (Steve) La Torre / early 1900s Santo Volpe Sr. / mid-1900s to appx 1940 Giovanni (John) Sciandra / 1940-1949 Giuseppe (Joe) Barbara Sr. / 1949-1959 Rosario (Russ) Bufalino / 1959-1994
Edward (Eddie the Conductor) Sciandra /early 1990s (It's a bit murky, but prior to Bufalino's death, this man was be believed to be one of several who helped run what was left of their borgata. Initially after Bufalino's death, Sciandra was thought to have served as interim "Acting Boss” for a time until D'Elia took over.
William (Big Billy) D’Elia /1990s forward (turned informant)
In my Notes I have Latorre as boss from 1903-1908 and Volpe as boss from 1908-1942. Also how do we know Barbara was boss? I was under the impression he was a capodecina.
Last edited by Sullycantwell; 07/18/2306:50 AM.
Re: "OFFICIAL" FAMILY BOSSES 1920s-2023
[Re: Sullycantwell]
#1064174 07/18/2307:15 AM07/18/2307:15 AM
Salvatore Catanzaro - 1888-1914 - pre-La Cosa Nostra - retired after being shot Gregorio Conti - 1915-1919 - murdered 9/24/1919 Salvatore Calderone - 1919-1925 - retired Stefano Monastero -1925-1929 - murdered 8/6/1929 Guiseppe Siragusa - 1929-1931 - murdered 9/13/1931 John Bazzano Sr - 1931-1932 - murdered 8/8/1932 in Brooklyn after meeting with commission for killing 3 Volpe Brothers without approval Vincenzo Capizzi - 1932-1937 - retired - moved to Italy Frank Amato - 1937-1956 - stepped down due to health issues - became Consigliere(died 1973) Sebastian "John" Larocca - 1956-1984 - died at home 12/3/1984 Michael James Genovese - 1984-2006 - died at home 10/31/2006 John Bazzano Jr - 2006-2008 - died 7/28/2008 - was still running gambling rings, Cinacutti, and other associates. Thomas "Sonny" Ciancutti - 2008-2021 -died 7/8/21 (91 yrs old) - last made guy - was really the boss of himself at the very end, and a bunch of associates. Was still active in gambling in the 2000teen years.
And as previously discussed elsewhere, FOH has met LaRocca and Genovese in person among others, he is an expert on much of this and has my respect for sharing his experiences, I just read and research, I have not met any of these guys.
The family was most likely defunct after Genovese's death. also what evidence is there that Salvatore Calderone was boss? Im aware wiki lists him, but I haven't seen a better source reporting that. We do know he was on the consiglio.
There are dozens of sites stating this as fact, I have looked him up on newspapers.com but found nothing, I did find him on Ancestry.com and see his family, death certificate, etc, but nothing about the mafia. I am going by the dozens of sites that report this, not just Wiki. But anything on the internet can definitley be questioned as to being fact or not.
And just so you know. I can, absolutely, positively, answer that last question succinctly and accurately about believing Cafaro over Fratianno and Lonardo. But that ain't gonna happen fellas! Simply because I wouldn't give you the satisfaction of being properly educated. I'll rather let you wallow in your ignorance. Since its a place you really seem to enjoy 'wallowing' in.
I have not seen this side of you NYM, I dont know the gentlemen you are disputing with but it seems they have gotten under your skin.
