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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066232
08/08/23 03:20 PM
08/08/23 03:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
Sullycantwell
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
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During the 1950s-1960s era, each of the following men served, at one time or another during that time frame, as the underboss of their respective NYC Family.
The question is, of the five notorious mafiosi listed below, in your opinion, which one was the toughest and had the most deadly reputation in New York’s underworld?
A) Anthony “Tony Bender” Strollo (Genovese Family)
B) Aniello “Neil” Dellacroce (Gambino Family)
C) Carmine “Lilo” Galante (Bonanno Family)
D) John “Sonny” Franzese (Colombo Family)
E) Stefano “Steve” LaSalle (Lucchese Family)
-- ButtonGuys now provides our thoughts about the question above as well as our viewpoints...(I also give the reasoning behind why we chose who we did.) -- In my opinion, although each was dangerous and could be deadly in his own way, it depends upon what type of "toughness" we're discussing, what category of "toughness." For instance, not all of them were necessarily physically tough guys. As far as that category goes, there is no doubt that Sonny Franzese was both physically fit, extremely tough with his hands and a good street fighter. So I'd have to rank him #1 in that particular category, without a doubt. I suspect that back in his youth Dellacroce was as well, and possible Galante also. As far as "mental" toughness goes, again I'd probably go with a Franzese, Dellacroce and Galante, who, to me at least, all seem "mentally" tough. I pick Franzese and Galante because, Sonny did close to 40 years in stir, and Galante did 20 or more in stir over several bids. Thats no cakewalk fellas. Especially doing 40! Thats more than the others served all combined together. I add Dellacroce to this mix because although he didn't do heavy time, he just seems to have been a very focused and strong-willed individual. As far as deadly goes. Well, all of them were. But as far as having been actual "shooters" themselves? Guys who picked up a gun, knife, or garrotte, and used it? Over and over as was ordered of them by their Family bosses? Once again, Galante, Dellacroce, and Franzese take that one too! Strollo probably pulled a few triggers back in his day. La Salle, as well, for that matter. But neither of them had the reputations of being deadly "stone killers" and assassins they same way that Galante, Franzese, and Dellacroce did. Thats a well established fact! No doubt Strollo, and probably La Salle, ordered plenty of hits. But as far as them, personally, getting their hands dirty? Neither is in the same category as Galante, Franzese, or Dellacroce. So there ya have it fellas. ButtonGuy opinion on the subject at hand. Again, what’s your source for Franzese or Galante being underboss
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: Giacomo_Vacari]
#1066321
08/09/23 04:17 AM
08/09/23 04:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,600
Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,600
Underground
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cause he was trying to distance himself from drug and paint himself in a better light. He was swimming in drug money and if he said Carmine was his underboss, then a lot of people would have been able to connect the dots. Dont know much about the Bonannos but I have the same feeling after reading and also hearing some of Bonannos statements about Galante. Old man Bonanno was a real snake and a liar, especially when it came down regarding his alleged "Sicilian honor".
Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: Giacomo_Vacari]
#1066323
08/09/23 04:38 AM
08/09/23 04:38 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
NYMafia
OP
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OP
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
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Galante was the toughest and deadliest of those named.
Galante was Underboss before he was hiding and had serious legal problems. Joe Bonanno later made John Burns his underboss. Bonanno never said Galante was his underboss, cause he was trying to distance himself from drug and paint himself in a better light. He was swimming in drug money and if he said Carmine was his underboss, then a lot of people would have been able to connect the dots.
There are numerous informants and wiretaps that show John Franzese was underboss before going to prison in the 1960s. Pietro Misuraca a San Jose member said his brother Big John served as Underboss when Joe Colombo became boss, but was replaced with Sonny Franzese as Colombo was trying to stabilize the family, as John Misuraca was extremely hostile to the Gallo faction. Before that, the Shriek served as underboss to Joe Magliocco. What you said in this post Giacomo is basically correct. And I agree with you. Carmine Galante WAS Bonanno's "official" underboss for years. He replaced Frank Garofalo who retired to Sicily. After Galante was jailed for narcotics, John Morale (among several others) became underboss for a time during the 1960s. Especially after the trouble started for Bonanno with his family's insurrection and the borgata was split, Joe counted on Morale to serve as his eyes and ears during that tumultuous time. *And, as you already stated (and this is important,) in his autobiography Bonanno was trying to distance himself from heroin trafficking the best he could, so he was NOT about to admit that Galante, one of the top drug traffickers in the world, was so close to him, let alone his Family underboss (his #2.) It was important for Bonanno to maintain his image in the book as a highly-scrupled "Man of Honor" who would never stoop so low as to deal narcotics. Thats why Galante is hardly even mentioned in the book. If I remember correctly, I think Joe devotes no more than one or two sentences to Galante, in a book that has hundreds of pages. This is despite that fact that Galante was one of the most important of his Family's members for about 40+ years at that point. Giacomo, THIS was a very good point that you brought out. So bravo! And yes, not withstanding what anybody else reported to the contrary, Sonny Franzese was, indeed, installed as the "official" underboss to Joe Colombo. He served in that position for some years until he was forced to step down for the good of the Family because of all his legal troubles by the late 1960s. John Misuraca was an older man by that time, and a weak sister by comparison, and could not fulfill the duties required of him for that position. Most importantly, at the time that Colombo was installed as the new boss of the Family, he wanted a complete sweep of the upper hierarchy to "retire" or knockdown the old caporegimes and install younger and more aggressive men such as himself so as to bring more vibrancy and life to the borgata. A "changing of the guard as it were." Joe became the youngest boss in the country and wanted younger men who would help him move the borgata in a new direction for expansion and power. Franzese was that guy! He became the underboss shortly after Joe became boss. With Franzese in that position, several things were accomplished. Franzese was young and EXTREMELY aggressive. He was highly respected and highly feared throughout the Profaci/Colombo Family (and for that matter, by all the other Families as well.) He also had Joe's back. Nobody was gonna make a move against Colombo with Franzese at his side. Not to mention the fact that Sonny and his personal men were greatly expanding and making inroads throughout the Queens-Long Island region on behalf of the Family and bringing in tons of cash to the borgata, while Joe maintained their Brooklyn/Staten Island and city nucleus. The Colombo-Franzese combo became the "Ying-Yang" of the Colombo mob. All the Field Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation knew it. So did the NYCPD Intelligence Bureau and Nassau and Suffolk County Racket Squads, The Federal Strike Force based in Brooklyn, and other law enforcement agencies who kept track of such things. Everybody, who was anybody, within the NY/NJ underworld (made guys and top associates) knew it (and, by extension, all the other hierarchies throughout the country.) Subsequently, the more well plugged-in rats knew it. And eventually, all the daily newspapers got wind of it from their so-called "sources" and reported it hundreds and hundreds of times over the years as well.
Last edited by NYMafia; 08/09/23 04:46 AM.
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066336
08/09/23 07:05 AM
08/09/23 07:05 AM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
Sullycantwell
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
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Greg scarpa id’d Charles Mineo as UB throughout the 1960’s.
As for Galante, do we have FBI files claiming Galante was underboss?
Last edited by Sullycantwell; 08/09/23 07:05 AM.
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066341
08/09/23 07:12 AM
08/09/23 07:12 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,600
Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,600
Underground
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Galante was the toughest and deadliest of those named.
Galante was Underboss before he was hiding and had serious legal problems. Joe Bonanno later made John Burns his underboss. Bonanno never said Galante was his underboss, cause he was trying to distance himself from drug and paint himself in a better light. He was swimming in drug money and if he said Carmine was his underboss, then a lot of people would have been able to connect the dots.
There are numerous informants and wiretaps that show John Franzese was underboss before going to prison in the 1960s. Pietro Misuraca a San Jose member said his brother Big John served as Underboss when Joe Colombo became boss, but was replaced with Sonny Franzese as Colombo was trying to stabilize the family, as John Misuraca was extremely hostile to the Gallo faction. Before that, the Shriek served as underboss to Joe Magliocco. What you said in this post Giacomo is basically correct. And I agree with you. Carmine Galante WAS Bonanno's "official" underboss for years. He replaced Frank Garofalo who retired to Sicily. After Galante was jailed for narcotics, John Morale (among several others) became underboss for a time during the 1960s. Especially after the trouble started for Bonanno with his family's insurrection and the borgata was split, Joe counted on Morale to serve as his eyes and ears during that tumultuous time. *And, as you already stated (and this is important,) in his autobiography Bonanno was trying to distance himself from heroin trafficking the best he could, so he was NOT about to admit that Galante, one of the top drug traffickers in the world, was so close to him, let alone his Family underboss (his #2.) It was important for Bonanno to maintain his image in the book as a highly-scrupled "Man of Honor" who would never stoop so low as to deal narcotics. Thats why Galante is hardly even mentioned in the book. If I remember correctly, I think Joe devotes no more than one or two sentences to Galante, in a book that has hundreds of pages. This is despite that fact that Galante was one of the most important of his Family's members for about 40+ years at that point. Giacomo, THIS was a very good point that you brought out. So bravo! And yes, not withstanding what anybody else reported to the contrary, Sonny Franzese was, indeed, installed as the "official" underboss to Joe Colombo. He served in that position for some years until he was forced to step down for the good of the Family because of all his legal troubles by the late 1960s. John Misuraca was an older man by that time, and a weak sister by comparison, and could not fulfill the duties required of him for that position. Most importantly, at the time that Colombo was installed as the new boss of the Family, he wanted a complete sweep of the upper hierarchy to "retire" or knockdown the old caporegimes and install younger and more aggressive men such as himself so as to bring more vibrancy and life to the borgata. A "changing of the guard as it were." Joe became the youngest boss in the country and wanted younger men who would help him move the borgata in a new direction for expansion and power. Franzese was that guy! He became the underboss shortly after Joe became boss. With Franzese in that position, several things were accomplished. Franzese was young and EXTREMELY aggressive. He was highly respected and highly feared throughout the Profaci/Colombo Family (and for that matter, by all the other Families as well.) He also had Joe's back. Nobody was gonna make a move against Colombo with Franzese at his side. Not to mention the fact that Sonny and his personal men were greatly expanding and making inroads throughout the Queens-Long Island region on behalf of the Family and bringing in tons of cash to the borgata, while Joe maintained their Brooklyn/Staten Island and city nucleus. The Colombo-Franzese combo became the "Ying-Yang" of the Colombo mob. All the Field Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation knew it. So did the NYCPD Intelligence Bureau and Nassau and Suffolk County Racket Squads, The Federal Strike Force based in Brooklyn, and other law enforcement agencies who kept track of such things. Everybody, who was anybody, within the NY/NJ underworld (made guys and top associates) knew it (and, by extension, all the other hierarchies throughout the country.) Subsequently, the more well plugged-in rats knew it. And eventually, all the daily newspapers got wind of it from their so-called "sources" and reported it hundreds and hundreds of times over the years as well. I also managed to find this. Dont know how much credible is the info but at least 5 informants said the following... ![[Linked Image]](https://i.ibb.co/x7wZFcL/Screenshot-20230809-130920-Chrome.jpg)
Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066343
08/09/23 07:17 AM
08/09/23 07:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
NYMafia
OP
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OP
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: Toodoped]
#1066345
08/09/23 08:15 AM
08/09/23 08:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
Sullycantwell
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
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Galante was the toughest and deadliest of those named.
Galante was Underboss before he was hiding and had serious legal problems. Joe Bonanno later made John Burns his underboss. Bonanno never said Galante was his underboss, cause he was trying to distance himself from drug and paint himself in a better light. He was swimming in drug money and if he said Carmine was his underboss, then a lot of people would have been able to connect the dots.
There are numerous informants and wiretaps that show John Franzese was underboss before going to prison in the 1960s. Pietro Misuraca a San Jose member said his brother Big John served as Underboss when Joe Colombo became boss, but was replaced with Sonny Franzese as Colombo was trying to stabilize the family, as John Misuraca was extremely hostile to the Gallo faction. Before that, the Shriek served as underboss to Joe Magliocco. What you said in this post Giacomo is basically correct. And I agree with you. Carmine Galante WAS Bonanno's "official" underboss for years. He replaced Frank Garofalo who retired to Sicily. After Galante was jailed for narcotics, John Morale (among several others) became underboss for a time during the 1960s. Especially after the trouble started for Bonanno with his family's insurrection and the borgata was split, Joe counted on Morale to serve as his eyes and ears during that tumultuous time. *And, as you already stated (and this is important,) in his autobiography Bonanno was trying to distance himself from heroin trafficking the best he could, so he was NOT about to admit that Galante, one of the top drug traffickers in the world, was so close to him, let alone his Family underboss (his #2.) It was important for Bonanno to maintain his image in the book as a highly-scrupled "Man of Honor" who would never stoop so low as to deal narcotics. Thats why Galante is hardly even mentioned in the book. If I remember correctly, I think Joe devotes no more than one or two sentences to Galante, in a book that has hundreds of pages. This is despite that fact that Galante was one of the most important of his Family's members for about 40+ years at that point. Giacomo, THIS was a very good point that you brought out. So bravo! And yes, not withstanding what anybody else reported to the contrary, Sonny Franzese was, indeed, installed as the "official" underboss to Joe Colombo. He served in that position for some years until he was forced to step down for the good of the Family because of all his legal troubles by the late 1960s. John Misuraca was an older man by that time, and a weak sister by comparison, and could not fulfill the duties required of him for that position. Most importantly, at the time that Colombo was installed as the new boss of the Family, he wanted a complete sweep of the upper hierarchy to "retire" or knockdown the old caporegimes and install younger and more aggressive men such as himself so as to bring more vibrancy and life to the borgata. A "changing of the guard as it were." Joe became the youngest boss in the country and wanted younger men who would help him move the borgata in a new direction for expansion and power. Franzese was that guy! He became the underboss shortly after Joe became boss. With Franzese in that position, several things were accomplished. Franzese was young and EXTREMELY aggressive. He was highly respected and highly feared throughout the Profaci/Colombo Family (and for that matter, by all the other Families as well.) He also had Joe's back. Nobody was gonna make a move against Colombo with Franzese at his side. Not to mention the fact that Sonny and his personal men were greatly expanding and making inroads throughout the Queens-Long Island region on behalf of the Family and bringing in tons of cash to the borgata, while Joe maintained their Brooklyn/Staten Island and city nucleus. The Colombo-Franzese combo became the "Ying-Yang" of the Colombo mob. All the Field Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation knew it. So did the NYCPD Intelligence Bureau and Nassau and Suffolk County Racket Squads, The Federal Strike Force based in Brooklyn, and other law enforcement agencies who kept track of such things. Everybody, who was anybody, within the NY/NJ underworld (made guys and top associates) knew it (and, by extension, all the other hierarchies throughout the country.) Subsequently, the more well plugged-in rats knew it. And eventually, all the daily newspapers got wind of it from their so-called "sources" and reported it hundreds and hundreds of times over the years as well. I also managed to find this. Dont know how much credible is the info but at least 5 informants said the following... Good finds, do you have a link to the doc? Did these informants furnish good info?
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066353
08/09/23 10:01 AM
08/09/23 10:01 AM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
Sullycantwell
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: RushStreet]
#1066372
08/09/23 12:58 PM
08/09/23 12:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
NYMafia
OP
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OP
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
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It would be hard to argue against the fact that Angelo Lapietra was acting underboss of the Outfit back in the 1970's and 80's working for Aiuppa. He definitely would have to be mentioned in this conversation that is for sure. I completely agree with you on that point. But thats provided we were gonna consider all guys, across all cities, in the United States, you know what I mean RS? But this particular opinion piece, which is all it really is, specifically focuses on the five guys I listed in the original post I started this thread with. Otherwise, we could have considered untold dozens and dozens of other guys through the years. But then where would it end? Lol. Thats why I limited it. But, for sure, Angelo La Pietra will definitely figure into a future piece I'm sure we'll do at some point. But, thank you for your input RushStreet. I appreciate you participating in the conversation.
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066373
08/09/23 01:04 PM
08/09/23 01:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 2,173
RushStreet
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 2,173
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It would be hard to argue against the fact that Angelo Lapietra was acting underboss of the Outfit back in the 1970's and 80's working for Aiuppa. He definitely would have to be mentioned in this conversation that is for sure. I completely agree with you on that point. But thats provided we were gonna consider all guys, across all cities, in the United States, you know what I mean RS? But this particular opinion piece, which is all it really is, specifically focuses on the five guys I listed in the original post I started this thread with. Otherwise, we could have considered untold dozens and dozens of other guys through the years. But then where would it end? Lol. Thats why I limited it. But, for sure, Angelo La Pietra will definitely figure into a future piece I'm sure we'll do at some point. But, thank you for your input RushStreet. I appreciate you participating in the conversation. Thank you for the kind words , I appreciate that very much! Also I can't wait for the day that you release a piece on Angelo. Excited is an understatement!
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: RushStreet]
#1066374
08/09/23 01:09 PM
08/09/23 01:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
NYMafia
OP
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OP
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
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It would be hard to argue against the fact that Angelo Lapietra was acting underboss of the Outfit back in the 1970's and 80's working for Aiuppa. He definitely would have to be mentioned in this conversation that is for sure. I completely agree with you on that point. But thats provided we were gonna consider all guys, across all cities, in the United States, you know what I mean RS? But this particular opinion piece, which is all it really is, specifically focuses on the five guys I listed in the original post I started this thread with. Otherwise, we could have considered untold dozens and dozens of other guys through the years. But then where would it end? Lol. Thats why I limited it. But, for sure, Angelo La Pietra will definitely figure into a future piece I'm sure we'll do at some point. But, thank you for your input RushStreet. I appreciate you participating in the conversation. Thank you for the kind words , I appreciate that very much! Also I can't wait for the day that you release a piece on Angelo. Excited is an understatement! LOL. Enough said. With that, I promise you that I will definitely keep him in mind for you, ok?
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066375
08/09/23 01:34 PM
08/09/23 01:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 2,173
RushStreet
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 2,173
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It would be hard to argue against the fact that Angelo Lapietra was acting underboss of the Outfit back in the 1970's and 80's working for Aiuppa. He definitely would have to be mentioned in this conversation that is for sure. I completely agree with you on that point. But thats provided we were gonna consider all guys, across all cities, in the United States, you know what I mean RS? But this particular opinion piece, which is all it really is, specifically focuses on the five guys I listed in the original post I started this thread with. Otherwise, we could have considered untold dozens and dozens of other guys through the years. But then where would it end? Lol. Thats why I limited it. But, for sure, Angelo La Pietra will definitely figure into a future piece I'm sure we'll do at some point. But, thank you for your input RushStreet. I appreciate you participating in the conversation. Thank you for the kind words , I appreciate that very much! Also I can't wait for the day that you release a piece on Angelo. Excited is an understatement! LOL. Enough said. With that, I promise you that I will definitely keep him in mind for you, ok? Yes that would be wonderful. I am sure that even I will come to find out some new information that I did not even know when you release a piece on him! You take lots of time and effort into releasing very interesting facts and information on whoever you choose to feature! For that I am very grateful to be a member of Button Guys!
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066376
08/09/23 01:51 PM
08/09/23 01:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
NYMafia
OP
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OP
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
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Thank you very much for that nice compliment RushStreet. Believe me when I tell ya, that it means a whole lot to both Lisa and myself that people like you enjoy our work. Because, as you just said, we try and take our time with the stories and bios that we do, to make sure we research and include as much pertinent data about the subject at hand as possible. After all, we take pride in our work. But even more importantly, people have enough faith in us to pony up the annual subscription fee to become "button guys."
Because of that, we also feel a deep sense of obligation to continually bring our fans the very best in mob content, week after week, that you will find anywhere.
So, when ya think about it, I really need to thank you twice. Once for your compliment, and a second time for becoming a card carrying "button guy." Lol
See ya around the BG social club.
Last edited by NYMafia; 08/09/23 01:52 PM.
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066383
08/09/23 04:40 PM
08/09/23 04:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
Zavattoni
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
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Who could argue with that choice? lol. Lilo is definitely a frontrunner in this thread. Galante in my opinion was more powerful than Neil Dellacroce…. Lilo had more connections then Neil… I don’t know if he (Galante) ever rose to underboss….. I don’t believe it…
Last edited by Zavattoni; 08/09/23 04:41 PM.
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: NYMafia]
#1066396
08/09/23 06:26 PM
08/09/23 06:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
Sullycantwell
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 141
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Here’s the DeCavalcante wiretap I was talking about where they refer to Morales as underboss
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htmldocId=95010#relPageId=3&search=Johnny_burns%20(morales)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htmldocId=94998#relPageId=4&search=Johnny_burns%20(morales)
This is the greatest evidence against Galante being underboss imo and this coupled with Joe Bonanno’s info himself it’s clear Morales was. Galante was a powerful captain.
Last edited by Sullycantwell; 08/09/23 06:27 PM.
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Re: Who was the toughest, most deadly underboss?
[Re: Zavattoni]
#1066415
08/09/23 09:12 PM
08/09/23 09:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
NYMafia
OP
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OP
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 12,459
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Who could argue with that choice? lol. Lilo is definitely a frontrunner in this thread. Galante in my opinion was more powerful than Neil Dellacroce…. Lilo had more connections then Neil… I don’t know if he (Galante) ever rose to underboss….. I don’t believe it… Well, for sure, Galante's connections were international in scope; Calabria, Sicily, Corsica, Marseilles, Paris, Montreal, etc., etc.
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