We spoke on this before and my opinion is they have done a pretty good job in construction, restaurants and other legit businesses like that. They’re not on the scale they once were in certain industries but New York is one big fuck off city with plenty of money to be made. There’s random businesses like local grocery stores and bottled water companies and all sorts of random businesses they’re making money in. Frank cali owned some kind of produce business I believe. I do agree that regular street businesses will go into decline, and those guys frankly should probably turn to drugs if they haven’t already. Although I do think loan sharking still holds place as a good money maker for quick money people with bad credit struggling businesses etc. they must have made a ton loansharking to businesses during the pandemic

This is brought up at least every 3 months. Like who out there really believes that we're living in the days of Tony Accardo or Carlo Gambino? Absolutely no one. That doesn't mean they're hurting anywhere near as bad as some people here imply. Hell, your average Joe out there probably thinks they died with Prohibition lol.

Stolen car parts is a huge money maker right now. The Auto theft chop shop business may be the biggest racket currently next to drugs.

Lots more OC activity (if they were still a healthy robust organization, which they are not.) I'm glad we agree, Ciment.

Good point

Still lots of OC activity among Russians and Chinese. You do not want to fuck with Chinese gangsters or Russians, they will fuck you up.

To put things into perspective, we've been hearing narratives about the Mob's demise since the early 90's. You can find books or movies from that timeframe that mention the "washed up Mob". Well, we're at the end of 2023 now and the American LCN is still here. They're not what they once were, they never ever will be what they once were, but they're still around and they're still making money.

And to be honest, all kinds of organized crime you can describe as "traditional organized crime" has taken HUGE hits. This is not a tendency that's unique to the American Mob. The Sicilian Mafia has been battered. The Yakuza have been hit hard since the early 90's. The Triads in Hong Kong and Taiwan have been taking major hits. Traditional British crime firms (especially in London)...the Corsican underworld in the South of France...you can't claim that the modern day world hasn't done major damage to any of them. And when you think of it, how often do you actually hear about a "Russian mob bust" these days? Exactly, it's all few and far between.

Does that mean that they're gone or even that they will disappear somewhat in the foreseeable future? Not at all. They will continue to operate and they will all continue to make plenty of money, but it will never be the way it was before for any of them.

Nowadays the drug trade garners the most attention and it's a fact that world generates the most violence by far. So of course, drug gangs are the ones we're gonna hear about the most. One question we have to ask ourselves though; how "organized" exactly is "organized crime" when it comes to the drug world these days? From what I can see what once were organizations active in the drug business is constantly splintering off into dozens upon dozens of smaller crews that are consistently at each other's throats. Big players are continuously getting busted and new groups shoot up like mushrooms before getting wiped out again in the blink of an eye. The way I see it, the drug trade seems to be more like "organized crime in a disorganized landscape" or vice versa if that makes any sense.
Governments have been doing their darnedest to push what was "organized crime" way into the underground, but what they got in return in the public eye is what one could call "disorganized organized crime".

CNote, my compliments. That was one of the more well-structured and intelligent responses that I've had the pleasure to read in quite some time now. You laid out our case very well. And everything you stated is 100% true!

So thank you for that. Bravo!

No it's not...thats a fallacy. Years ago it was. But today? No way.

Brovelli, I agree there are plenty of "legit" businesses to get into that are moneymakers. But thats NOT organized crime. Thats NOT what we are debating here. Thats legitimate business, understand?

In Chicago it is, I guarantee you that.

Honestly...these guys as well are barely noticeable in public sight. And trust me, I've been to lots and lots of Chinatowns. I remember that even some fifteen years ago Chinatowns used to be places with a very shady atmosphere. Not particularly dangerous, but still you didn't need to look hard to see something shady going on. These days though? Gangs have disappeared from public sight and lot of businesses that were once Chinese have now been replaced by other immigrant businesses (Thai, Nepalese, Filipino...to name a few).

Russians? I remember a certain square in a big city nearby used to be an open hotbed for "Russian" criminal activity (even though those guys in reality were mostly Georgian, Jewish and Armenian but I digress) with fencing, prostitution and loansharking going on openly. Last time I was at that same square was a year ago and it was nothing but tumbleweeds. Not a single mob guy in sight.

I know they're still around, but they as well have been pushed way into the underground.

I seriously seriously doubt that RS.

Because IF it was a thing in Chicago, it most certainly would be a thing in other major cities, NYC, Philly, Boston, etc.....and its NOT!

Nicely put TKJ. And guess what? You're 100% right once again. And I can attest to what you say because I come from NYC, born and bred, and used to go to Chinatown, in Downtown Manhattan, as often as other people change their socks. And how you described it is exactly how it once was.

Ghost Shadows, Flying Dragons, etc., were out in the open and on every street corner. Today? There ain't a one of them.

For that matter, so were all "The Boys" in every Italian enclave worth mentioning throughout NYC's five boros. Today? Forgettaboutit. Lol

Did someone here say that the mob is a powerhouse recently? Because I swear this gets brought up every few months. I just take the news as it comes, everything else is speculation.

Siediti...lol

You know in Italy there's actually an agency called the DIA that keeps track of the health and the status of the various organized crime groups and clans over there, and gives a yearly report on each and every one of them and it goes from territory to territory. We need something like that in the states for our crime groups, but from someone or some agency actually qualified to do so. In other words not coming from a bunch of speculators and know-it-alls on some forum lol.

Many of these members became civilized and wanted to start legit businesses to make a living. Why risk prison when you can run a strip club or say a restaurant for example and be left the fuck alone? Do they still partake in some illegal activity on the side possibly? Of course. But their overall source of income is now from legit businesses.

Liggio, once again I gotta advice ya to only speak for yourself. lol

(just kidding)

...aside from chop shops and stolen auto parts, you mean, don't you?

Counterfeit goods are one of the biggest rackets now, and have been for many years. They are run by Asians and Africans. There was a recent bust in New York of a big ring, but they only nabbed the street vendors. There are importers in Africa and Asia who never set foot here, yet control things through their men. Illegal immigration and in some cases legal have been a boost to them. There are South American theft rings operation all over major cities, for some reason they get little coverage.

I think people (Not you) can't admit, or can't realize that the Italian-American Mafia is as close to dead as can be, and is way behind other groups now, Look at most Gangland.news stories the past year, all about associates and poker games, with the biggest story being an associate being killed by his non-associate son over money!

I think those rackets get little coverage because a lot of people think of selling counterfeit goods and running theft rings as basically one step above petty crime. It's not as "sexy" (for the lack of a better word) as stuff like narcotics, loansharking, gambling, prostitution, extortion, etc... There are counterfeit rings all over the world, but people rarely cover them because most people don't seem to outright "fear" those kind of organizations.

What people don't seem to understand is that the landscape has changed drastically. Stop watching these movies. They depict a time that's long gone! It's fun to watch those movies and they are very entertaining, but the era we are living in currently does not support that life anymore. Imagine if our planet ran out of oxygen. You know what would happen. Well, the mob ran out of rackets. It's as simple as that.

Look at my man Giacalone? Steppin' up to the plate all sassy and bangin' it straight out of the park!

Bravo! Another well thought out comment, tellin' it exactly like it REALLY is!

Yeah it's actually basic mathematics when you look at it like that. Less possible rackets = less activity

Yea I’m more addressing the points as to why there are fewer indictments and whether that’s an indication of their demise or not. My general point is: there’s fewer indictments because they’re not killing people abd because they’re making money in legitimate businesses more than they are illegal. Whether that means they are in the gutter or they’re being clever I’m not convinced one way or the other.

Bingo! Give that man a cigar!

Brovelli, I appreciate the statement you just made above, and heres what I want add to that, ok?...

To be sure, plenty of "wiseguys" and knock around guys are still around. And will be for quite some time, at least here in NYC. They're still out there on the streets. But the point is, 90% of them are sucking wind, now, and for the foreseeable future. That is, unless one of them hits the NYS lottery for a billion dollars and decides to share it equally among all LCN throughout the city. Otherwise, it hard times ahead....VERY HARD TIMES AHEAD! (and you can take that to the bank.) In fact, truth be told, thats gonna be about the only thing they can take to "the bank." Lol

Why does everyone love bashing LCN? I don’t recall anyone here saying that they're anywhere near as strong as they once were. Find some other group to pick on. Like I said, one of these threads are started at least 3 times a year, usually from the same people.

And the same "usual suspects" spout the same gibberish!

Like clockwork! LOL