Tom seems to have become the liaison between Michael and Fredo after Fredo made his fatal slip-up at the Superman show in Havana ("Johnny Ola brought me here..."). When Michael returns to Nevada, he asks Tom where Fredo is, and tells him to get word to Fredo that he knows Fredo was misled, etc. Later, after Michael learns that Pentangeli is alive, he revisits Fredo with Tom:

MICHAEL
What about FREDO? What does he know?
TOM
He says he doesn't know anything -- and I believe him. ROTH well he -- he played this one beautifully.
MICHAEL
I want to talk to FREDO.

If Fredo told Tom that he didn't know anything about Pentangeli, then he was obviously lying because he told Michael at their boathouse meeting that he knew that Pentangeli was alive, and that the Senate lawyer, Questadt, "belongs to Roth."

Why would Fredo lie to Tom, who seemed to be on his side, and tell the truth to Michael? Your thoughts?

I'm not sure if all the avenues of information are clear, if Fredo has new information or is just repeating what he's heard since he got back. One possibility is that he recognizes Questadt (as Michael should), but has just figured out his significance.

Pentangeli's survival may have gone public before Fredo met with Michael in the boathouse. But, Fredo knew that Questadt belonged to Roth--and that wasn't public. Why didn't he tell that to Tom before he met with Michael?

We saw the depth and intensity of Fredo's resentment of Michael in his outburst at the boathouse. It was pure hatred. He could have helped his brother by telling Tom about Questadt (and Pentangeli) before Michael testified. But, he wanted to hurt his brother by waiting to reveal what he knew until after Michael perjured himself.. It was Fredo's vengeance for being passed over and for being treated as stupid and as a go-fer.

I posted years ago that Fredo was far more involved with Roth and Ola than he let on. That's how he knew that Questadt belonged to Roth:

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=472494&Searchpage=1&Main=16944&Words=%2Bconspiracy&Search=true#Post472494

Fredo had two primary problems: huge insecurity and frustration.

His behavior regarding Michael derives from those two. Yes, he may have resented his brother, but I don't think it extended to hatred or a desire to see him dead. I also don't think that Fredo was a strategic thinker. His vengeance (if any) was temporal; here and now.

It's all rather complicated when you start speculating about motivations. However, I am surprised that someone who had Michael's intelligence and intuition did not pick up on Fredo's feelings.

That's a very good point, Oli. Had Michael been less selfish and self-centered, he might have either tried to keep Fredo satisfied, or at least perceived that he was creating an enemy.

Fredo had everyone fooled!

Nobody "had any inclination" Fredo was not "satisfied" nor they were “creating an enemy” Michael had always taken care of Fredo However “You're my kid brother and you take care of me” was another grating thorny factor in “the depth and intensity of Fredo's resentment of Michael” for being stepped over

Tom and Fredo - Extracts:

My take, for what it is worth!
Fredo, initially also lied to Michael

Fredo grudgingly "revealing what he knew" was painful to watch like pulling teeth
As regards Frankie Pentangeli's survival, the chairman was very helpful! telling Michael about their secret star witness
Sure thing "Fredo was far more involved with Roth and Ola than he let on"

Fredo betrayed his kid brother, Michael for personal gain "something in it for me if I'd help 'em out" and then continued trying to harm, hurt and injure Michael by still withholding information he knew, to gain that "something"

even if Fredo 'really' didn't know it was gonna be a hit, Fredo "waiting to reveal what he knew until after Michael perjured himself" that too not voluntarily [even though it made no difference to Michael's defense as Vincenzo Pentangeli, Frankie's brother was already on his way to enforce omertà and bail Michael out] was to try and send Michael to Prison because the hit failed and that "something" arguably the Donship, was not yet gained

There is no redeeming feature

One thing I've always been curious about:

Michael seemed frantic to get Fredo in his car as he was leaving Havana ("It's the only way out of here tonight...You're still my brother!!). And, the first thing he asks Tom after he returns and they're alone is, "Where's my brother?" But then he tells Tom to "Get word to Fredo..." etc. The urgency seemed to be gone immediately until after Michael testified and he told Tom, "I want to speak to Fredo."

What happened? Any ideas?

The urgency Michael was "frantic to get Fredo in his car" for Fredo's safe passage back home because Fredo was still Michael's brother

Michael still looking out for his brother's welfare, to get Fredo safely back home even after having just learned that Fredo had betrayed Michael, nearly resulting in Michael and Kay being killed. Oh! What a brother!

Mission accomplished!

Michael didn't know
1. anything about the Senate hearing then [Desert Inn]
2. nor Fredo's deeper involvement with Roth and Ola until Fredo's boathouse outburst

Hence Michael to Tom [Desert Inn]

Lana, I admire your faith in Michael's brotherly concern for Fredo. But I don't share it. I don't think Michael loved anyone or anything except power. He just wanted to get everything from Fredo that he knew about Roth; once he got that in the boathouse meeting, Fredo was "nothing to me now." I think he did love Kay before Vito's shooting put him into the Family business. But when he returned to the US, I think she was basically a WASP ticket-punch for Michael--another ornament in his quest for "respectability." That scene in New Hampshire with him "wooing" Kay (Michael wearing that ridiculous Homburg hat, looking like a pint-sized banker) had all the passion of a real estate negotiation--with Kay as his property.

I see it differently that there was genuine brotherly concern for Fredo's safe passage out of Havana
Also Fredo was still living at Michael's house

• Fredo's boathouse outburst cast doubt on Fredo's claim that Fredo didn't know it was gonna be a hit

Hence Michael to Fredo

I am not sure about the “WASP ticket-punch” It seems the WASP is our doing!
As far as I can recall there was no such mention in the movie?

Besides WASP Kay was already Michael's girlfriend, long before Michael having to become the Don and his quest for "legitimacy" "respectability."

Sure thing there was no time [longer than a year -- tutored by Vito] nor the desire for "wooing" Michael's car following! behind

• Michael was honest though

I came here because I need a woman, to bring my sons into this world. You'll do -- What's Love got to Do with it?!


longer than a year -- Mama couldn't find Michael a nice Italian origin bride, suitable Mob Boss wife

Not in the movie. But Puzo wrote in the novel:
"Kay Adams Corleone had delighted her in-laws by taking instruction in the Catholic religion and joining their faith...Michael himself had not been too pleased by this development. He would have preferred the children to be Protestant, it was more American."

in the novel: Kay had accepted he was Mob Boss. Carlo's killing, her issue Michael lying to her

Nothing but the Donship would have satisfied Fredo
Vito never nurtured him No Garden chat explaining That's the way Pop wanted it.

. That is false. There has never been any proof that Fredo deliberately tried to have Mime killed. There is a lot more prof that he was simply played. Was he frustrated? Yes. Was he insecure? Yes, BUT that doesn’t mean he intentionally tried to kill Mike. What Mike did to Fredo was just pure evil you can sugarcoat it but that’s the truth. Mike knew that Fredo didn’t intentionally try to kill him

If Ola had said to Fredo: "We need your help in killing your brother," Fredo would have said no. But Ola probably couched it the way Fredo told Michael: Roth needed help in closing the "big deal." Where Fredo dissembled, IMO, was when he told Michael that Ola said, "there'd be something in it for me." Fredo would have wanted to know what was in it for him; and if Ola had told him that he'd get the Donship he deserved, Fredo would have inferred that there was only one way he could get it. And, even if Ola didn't explicitly promise him the Donship, he'd figure out why Ola wanted him to open the drapes.

So, I believe that when Fredo told Michael, "I swear to God I didn't know it was gonna be a hit," the truth was, "Johnny Ola never said it was gonna be a hit." He let his greed for what he thought he deserved close his eyes, ears and mind to what would inevitably happen as a result of his "help."

Nah they made it pretty clear that although Fredo was dumb and a womanizer he wasn’t ruthless enough to hurt a family member. Like his wife said “you couldn’t belt your momma”. I think people misinterpreted “something in it for me”. He simply wanted to have some respect I don’t think he wanted or cared about being the Don really. I know some will bring up him saying “I was passed over” but I think at the end of the day he just wanted some respect in the family but obviously was stupid snd not cut out for that life. There still is zero justification for Mike murdering his brother

Yep he thought he was going to become a big shot and they knew he would talk too much and could use it to their advantage. No way Fredo works with them if he knew they were going to kill Mikey

True Turnbull He let his greed for what he thought he deserved close his eyes, ears and mind to what would inevitably happen as a result of his "help." for something in it for me -- arguably the Donship.

Why seethe with resentment and heatedly point out I'm your older brother Mike and I was stepped over! It ain't the way I wanted it! if there was no connection

He was not involved in their big deal together So what little help he could give -- inconceivable

How is his little help arguably opening the drapes -- close the deal fast -- it'd be good for the family?
I reckon, Fredo dissembled or otherwise -- It was to identify Michael's bedroom for the hit


No bigger shot and respect than Don Fredo Corleone

I think Fredo was in much deeper than he let on.
Although he says he didn't know it was going to be a hit, then what purpose was opening the drapes going to accomplish?
His excuse is that he was told that Mike was being "tough on the negotiations" and there would be something in it for him,
if he could help make the deal between Mike and Roth.
Given all that,how in the hell does opening the drapes serve that purpose?
Is Fredo that mind-numbingly stupid?
"Hey Fredo,help us speed up the negotiations with Mike. Just leave his bedroom drapes open"
"Sure Johnny,that should work"
Given the years that Fredo brooded over getting stepped over,being relegated to menial duties in the Family,and basically being thought of as a joke,he finally just lost it and
the idea of helping get rid of Mike is not so far-fetched.
I don't think that he would have had any more of a problem getting Mike killed,than Mike had about killing him.
And yes,Fredo was a marshmallow,but helping someone else do the work is a whole nother story.
It's a shame that neither brother could achieve their goals without killing the other one.

I mean this not a Carlo, Tessio or Paulie situation where they deliberately turned on the Corleones to cause ann assassination. It’s pretty clear Fredo thought he was helping and at the same time he wanted to show he was capable. Was it stupid.? Of course but it was established that he was stupid. However many people also say that Fredo had a good heart including Mike. I think some tend to want to make a conspiracy theory that Fredo maliciously tried to kill Mike but when I look at the evidence I don’t see that. I know some will be up the Senate lawyer as evidence that Fredo was trying to get rid of Mike but at the end of the day he still told Mike about it which he could’ve easily kept quiet about he he wanted Mike to rot in jail. I’m not saying Fredo was an Angel or that he didn’t make a mistake but did he deserve to be killed? I don’t think so

I don't think anyone, including Fredo, expected Mike to beat the Senate Committee.
Pentangeli's recanting was out of the blue.
I think Fredo, like pretty much everybody, figured that Five Angels would bury Mike,so he had nothing to lose by telling Mike about it.

The one thing I feel strongly about is the utter evil and cold-blooded decision by Mike to kill Fredo.

I agree that Fredo did not deserve to be killed.
Now,if he took a shot at Mike and missed,OK, then all bets are off.

But he didn't,and Mike showed his true colors by killing him.

. I disagree with you about Fredo thinking Mike was going to jail I don’t think he wanted that to happen. Besides that I agree Mike was evil and cold blooded doing what he did

I can go either way on Fredo thinking Mike was going to jail.
I think there's a lot of speculation on both sides.
That's why I love this topic (and of course this Board).

Sure thing Lou Nobody [except us!] "including Fredo, expected Mike to beat the Senate Committee" and "Fredo, like pretty much everybody, figured that Five Angels would bury Mike"

Everybody even Tom "thinking Mike was going to jail"

• Fredo had plenty to lose arguably the Donship itself Fredo so coveted

That's why Fredo withheld the information “he knew until after Michael perjured himself" [even though it made no difference whatsoever to Michael's defense]

Michael already knew “Alive -- Pentangeli is alive" before Michael went to talk to Fredo

Fredo also showed his true colors, Fredo did take a shot at Mike

Was Michael bloodthirsty?
Did they have to die?

Excellent movie-fact based analysis' with articulate new takes as well

If -- it'd be good for the family, Why did Fredo need something in it for me -- on my own, to help out?

Besides as Evita posted “He was not involved in their big deal together So what little help he could give -- inconceivable” indeed

Extracts:
Sure thing Turnbull whether Fredo dissembled or not -- He let his greed for what he thought he deserved close his eyes, ears and mind to what would inevitably happen as a result of his "help."

• Why didn't Fredo help Michael out instead of telling lie after lie from claiming to not know Roth and Ola
• Why was Fredo withholding information “he knew until after Michael perjured himself" [even though it made no difference whatsoever to Michael's defense]

Fredo's credibility if any shot to pieces

Sure thing Evita "No bigger shot and respect than Don Fredo Corleone" indeed

Well put Lou, Fredo seething with jealousy, resentment -- the idea of helping get rid of Mike is not so far-fetched.
and you are right Sadly neither brother achieved his goal even with trying to kill / killing the other one

. Being jealous doesn’t equal wanting to kill your brother. Once again there a mountain of evidence that suggests Fred while stupid wasn’t ruthless like that. Unlike Carlo, Paulie, or Tessio he didn’t consciously tried to kill a Corleone. That’s just fact. I think it’s pretty clear he just wanted to have some respect within the family but he obviously wasn’t cut out for that life he didn’t have the smarts or ruthlessness. Not saying he was a saint but even Mike years later realizes it made zero sense killing him and it followed him and I guess you can argue that karma finally got Mike in the end. Like Tom said “you won you want to wipe everyone out?” which he clear wanted to despite his bullshit excuses of “only his enemies”.

Exactly If -- it'd be good for the family, Why did Fredo need something in it for me -- on my own, to help out?
Besides “He was not involved in their big deal together So what little help he could give -- inconceivable” indeed

True "Fredo, like pretty much everybody, figured Mike was going to jail and he would be getting, his something reward arguably the Donship itself Fredo so coveted

Fredo also showed his true colors, Fredo did take a shot at Mike and Fredo's credibility if any shot to pieces with his lie after lie


Well put Lou, Fredo seething with jealousy, resentment -- the idea of helping get rid of Mike is not so far-fetched.

Fredo traitor in the family betrayed his kid brother, Michael for personal gain arguably the Donship itself Fredo so coveted
Take sides against the family second time even after warning

helping get rid of Mike is not so far-fetched. thinking Mike was going to jail.
No bigger shot and respect than Don Fredo Corleone

There is no redeeming feature

. Very doubtful. You can have jealousy without actually acting on it and trying to kill your brother. Look I understand since Mike is main character there is a tendency to defend his action but there really is no defense to this. What did he actually gain by murdering Fredo? People being more terrified of him? It obviously tortured him later in and realized it an unredeemable decision. Again there really is zero evidence that shows Fredo wanted to kill him wheras there is a lot of evidence that he was played and only wanted to show he could do an important job for the family.