I made a mistake it was not Frank Profaci crew Joseph Lima went to in 1957, it was Salvatore Musacchio crew. Associates John Caputo, Pietro Caputo, Larry Gallo, Pasquale Somma, Anthony Ricciardi, James Cardello, Harry Fontana, Frank Musacchio, Joseph Greca, Anthony Greca, Joe Colozzo, Dominic Lagana, Manny Loporta, Nick Grieco, James Plumeri, Salvatore DeMarco, Generoso Del Duca, and Thomas Milo. One CI said he was made with Profaci family, another CI said he turned it down, so I only have him as an associate. I trace this information when I was looking into Fontana family in the 1910s, and found Pietro Lima was part of that group, but not powerful, until he moved to Utica.

Interesting...it seems he was affiliated with guys from a lot of different crews and families.

Joe Lima lived in Brooklyn Heights so it was not uncommon for him to associate with many of these men, he grew up for awhile in Cobble Hill and Downtown Brooklyn. Before the Falcones moved to Utica, their father Tony was associated with Joe Morello family and both Salvatore and Joe lives in Cobble Hill and was associated with Salvatore D'Aquila family.

Yes, I do know that the Falcone brothers as well as certain of their membership, like John Melito, had close relationships to the Anastasia Family (the former D'Aquila/Mangano Family) before him.

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Have you heard of the name Domenico in Rome around the time of start of Prohibition? Produce guys.
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The only Domenico who visited Rome at least once a week is Domenico Aiello. He worked with his brother in law Pietro Lima. Both were Utica guys and worked with Jack Di Bella, and worked for Salvatore Falcone. Dont know if he was active at the start of prohibition in the area but by mid 1920s they were in the presence of Jack Di Bella, Carmen Tusoto, Angelo Coia, Vincenzio Pinti, Jim Sonsini in Rome along with Rosario Gambino, his son Peter Gambino, and Joseph Lima of Utica. Domenico owned a grocery store, he had one before that had burned in 1920. 1934, both Domenico Aiello and Pietro Lima were found in a bullet ridden car shot to death in Utica. That is the only Domenico I have for the area of Rome like I said he was a Utica guy. Domenico daughter married Salvatore Falcone son. [/quote]

There were 3 Domenico brothers from Rome who charged with murdering a CNY Mob Boss' associate in a drive by while the victim was in a car the same week that boss got murdered. Th it was overe prosecution tied the two cases together.I believe they were acquited.I don't remember all the details,but part of the prosecution theory was that it was over the produce business

Do you think that some Syracusans or Uticans or other Upstate guys, possibly known as Associates of either Maggadino,Falcone or DeStefano could have been active or one time active guys from other Families in NYC or elsewhere?
Or could guys known as Associates of DeStefano,etc still be members of the Calabrian or Camorra Familes?
Finally, Do you think the Luciano/Grenovese or Anastasia Families ever had guys in Syracuse,Utica.and Upstate?





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Yes. Syracuse had members who were with NHdrangheta, and Camorra. Utica had members who belonged to Agrigento and Trapani mostly Agrigento province.
The area from Auburn to Utica I can give some info. In Auburn, Tommy Gagliano had a soldier there up till from early 1930s to mid 1950s. Syracuse had people from Gambino and Genovese from 1930s until Frank Costello and Albert Anastasia were no longer bosses. Utica still has guys who are associated with the Bonanno, Colombo, and Gambino families to this day in the area.
Hope that helps.
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We seem to be in agreement about the presence in Syracuse of Genovese and Gambino as far back as the 1930s,maybe before.There is evidence of that. My guess is that there were always some ties between early Camorra,N'Drangheta,and Mafia guys during their pre Prohibition "Black Hand " days. And those connections only got stronger during and after Prohibition .

I think that those ties to Genovese and Anastasia people faded after Costello and Anastasia were gone,not so much because those guys were gone but because the government cracked down hard on Syracuse's gambling and other vice after that raid at Appalachia. Besides Costello and Anastasia being gone,and Genovese probably in prison soon after, several of those operating in Syracuse who had ties with them were basically shut down by the government, while others were older and dying. And at that point whatever operations previously with Genovese/Luciano/Costello/Anastasia probably went over to Magaddino/Falcone who already had a pretty strong presence in Syracuse, Utica, Rome. And for what its worth after those days places like Utica and Syracuse never thrived as much again, with the gambling rackets,and neither did the neighborhoods in which they operated.

There are some interesting theories you put forth here. I'm curious what other forum members may think about the underworld situation up in Syracuse.

Hoping to hear more from yourself and Giacomo Vaccari on this subject . There is a story that Anastasia visited Utica ,where I believe he had connections as well as relatives and Syracuse very shortly before he died. Maybe weeks before

There were several stories of Vito Genovese in Syracuse to visit several of family but also visit guys in the rackets.

If my memory serves me correctly, Albert Anastasia was related through marriage to Giovanni (John) Melito, an old-time Utica based soldier serving under capo Salvatore Falcone who was the overseer of that section of Upstate NY.

I believe the connection was that Melito had married a blood niece of Anastasia.

The only Domenico who visited Rome at least once a week is Domenico Aiello. He worked with his brother in law Pietro Lima. Both were Utica guys and worked with Jack Di Bella, and worked for Salvatore Falcone. Dont know if he was active at the start of prohibition in the area but by mid 1920s they were in the presence of Jack Di Bella, Carmen Tusoto, Angelo Coia, Vincenzio Pinti, Jim Sonsini in Rome along with Rosario Gambino, his son Peter Gambino, and Joseph Lima of Utica. Domenico owned a grocery store, he had one before that had burned in 1920. 1934, both Domenico Aiello and Pietro Lima were found in a bullet ridden car shot to death in Utica. That is the only Domenico I have for the area of Rome like I said he was a Utica guy. Domenico daughter married Salvatore Falcone son. [/quote]

There were 3 Domenico brothers from Rome who charged with murdering a CNY Mob Boss' associate in a drive by while the victim was in a car the same week that boss got murdered. Th it was overe prosecution tied the two cases together.I believe they were acquited.I don't remember all the details,but part of the prosecution theory was that it was over the produce business
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Havana, you seem to have a keen interest as well as some very interesting knowledge about the underworld in Upstate New York.

I also find the mob in that section of the country to be very interesting.

I encourage you to create posts related to your findings. Aside from me, I suspect that many others on this forum would really enjoy learning more about them.

Used to live there when as a kid. Not too far from there now. Still know people there- old friends
Some of those gamblers were around,and a lot of guys my age shared stories.Never knew which were fact or which were just tales
Some of the old timers told stories and we never knew which of those were true,false,or exagerated
But the Internet and sites like your own site and this site, public records,etc have provided tools to verify or dispel those stories
The amazing thing is that most of these stories were not only true but they were more sensational that the way we'd first heard them
They'd say stories in a matter of fact way. Then you find out that those stories were splashed all obver the news and newspaper headlines back in those days.
Your work own body of work and findings have verified a lot of those stories that were t told in CNY ,as well as agreement in many cases of my ideas of the actual structure,leadership ,diversity,etc of the mob there .And your research and theories are very much appreciated.Outside of those covering Buffalo, probably nobody has even come close to giving that history of Upstate NY the way you have

Thank you so much, Havana. Thats very nice to hear and very kind of you to say so.

I'm glad you took the time to visit my website and enjoyed it as much as you have. Thats what we strive for.

It used to amaze me that in that area the people would say,"We never had any of that stuff going on around here."
And that gets me thinking what are they ? Blind that they couldn't see? Or can't read?
Once many years ago after mentioning this blindness to to reality to one of the sons of those who was a well know guy in gambling,his response was "What do they think those guys were? Brain surgeons ?"
"Those guys hanging out over there day after day,year after year? Just look at them.What did you think they were?" That would go through my mind.

When your site must have been new free initial Upstate article came out,and actually put names on those guys long gone, it amazed me that nobody else could seem to see what you saw about that area in an earlier time
Of course those guys ,their wives ,and families, probably were much more closed mouth about whatever they knew about their men.