With all due respect, you have no way of knowing all of that for sure. That's what bugs me about people on these forums, they speak in absolute terms when there's no possible way for them to know anything with absolute certainty.

Tell me if I'm wrong in stating that the zips would make it much more possible to carry out serious crimes and not have them traced back to your crew?

Yes or no?

as i have said before about alleged outfit zip faction, there is little to no evidence of any such thing ever existing in the past and ZERO info today or even into the 2000s. the outfit never had a need to import hitmen from sicily or any other part of italy. those who follow the outfit and know its history can attest to throughout its murderous reign the outfit had a steady supply of homegrown hitmen. there has been confusion concerning the presence of sicilians linked to the pizza connection in illinois in the 1980s as well. they could have done some business i suppose but it wasnt in heroin thats for sure and any possible link or connection is over 40 years old.

i know very little of detroit or the d'anna brothers, there historical connections to sicily are stronger than anything in chicago but that is not saying much. any recent or any indictments or arrests at anytime in past 25 years or more showing an active working partnership between anyone in detroit and sicily.

last, how is it that detroits alleged street boss dies and it barely gets a mention anywhere but here? tocco was one of the last connects to past leaders in detroit going way back in the tocc-zerilli-giacalone leadership.

Look from an overall standpoint it would be much easier to carry out a hit or another serious crime and not get in trouble by using zips coming from Italy then it would using a local guy correct?

From a logical standpoint this is a no brainer. You get a capable guy who is a true professional that comes over from Italy, no one knows who the fuck he is. No one even knows the guys name. Once the job is done, he goes back to Italy or another part of the world never to be seen on U.S. Soil again.

I guess the Point I made Doesn’t get Accounted for SMH

....while on the other hand, with all due respect, Im bugged by people who always say "we are not 100% sure", meaning for example if you say "Capone was the boss", they'll say "yes, but we are not 100% certain". lol Those are the same people who like to mingle among top researchers and experts with the help of their constant and unsupported suspicion about everything, which in fact is their main "ticket" so they can act like scholars by allegedly seeing the situation from a different (non-existing) angle. Thats why Im on the opposite side and for me there's always the possibility of absolute certainty.

while i can agree that the scenario of an imported hitman was used in the past, not just in chicago but in other american cities, the current M.O. when hits do take place, is to farm the hit out to either street gang members or even biker gangs, or the odd instance where a mafia family associate or member does it. very common in canada but also used in america. theres also this glaring point noone is considering...the american mafia does not appear to want to murder anyone in the 2000s. there have been hits absolutely but not 1970s or 80s numbers of hits. so the possibility exists that when a extremely rare hit is ordered at some point in the future by an american mafia family, said family could have the ability to import an italian/zip member to do the work. if this family has connections back to italy, and that is a huge if considering the small amount of families with rock solid links back to sicily or calabria for that matter. however the more current evidence tells us that not only have murders become very uncommon amongst american mafia families but that when they do they are being farmed out or committed by associates/members of a mafia family.

Look at the Michael Meldish hit, from what I recall the entire Lucchese administration was sent away for life based on a very weak case. I'm surprised there hasn't been appeals. This is why there's no hits anymore.

I feel like the Chicago Outfit is a Neapolitan Origin Family/Street Gang and have a Horizontal Structure like the Camorra in Italy for instance all the Bosses up in the 1960/1970s became Sicilian Before that its was all Neapolitan Bosses and Underbosses and and there was No Induction Ceremony with Finger Pricking or Gun and Knife in the Table it was just a Big Lavish Banquet Dinner for New Made Guys and they use Ranks like Crew Boss for Captain and Leiutenant for Soldier and from what Frank Calabrese Jr says High Ranking Associate who run his own Neihborhood or Street Corner can be Considered a Boss don’t know if he’s the Best Source cause his brother Kurt says he lied about a lot of Stuff in his book and Last but not Least it seems the Outfit is a Family/Gang with Neapolitan/Sicilian mixed together from Structure and Rules

The old Outfit changed its structure and rules at least two or three times, depending on who was the boss at the time, and your own definition can be POSSIBLY included regarding different time periods, or from the late 1920's until the late 60's or early 70's. But from the mid 1970's until the late 1980's we can witness more traditional picture but after that, we can only speculate on what really went down, and Im sure that they went even more "low-key" and today we might be the witnesses of two different groups without a top administration. Back in the old days or before the Capone mob, there were two separate Sicilian families in Chicago (they possibly had two reps for the national mafia connections, hence Lolordo's and Bacinos' presence on that national 1928/29 mafia meeting and they allegedly represented Chicago's factions) and as the decades passed by or after 100 years, its quite possible that today history repeats itself. For example, two groups such as the Cicero/Lake County/South Side/Chi Heights/Indiana group (possibly under Caruso and Cataudella/Ferriola) and the Elmwood Park/Grand Avenue/Near North Side/Near West Side crew (possibly under Vena and Dote). In the recent Gagliano case, they are mostly EP/Grand guys, meaning its not like in the old days when you usually had both Cicero and EP guys working together, or from Chi Heights and some Northsiders.

Dont forget that by the early 1990's and later during the mid 2000's , 3 or 4 old Outfit crews were completely erased, meaning the old Cicero-Melrose Park crew (Ralph Capone, Maddox, Aiuppa, Carlisi, Tornabene, Marcello, Zizzo), the old Chinatown, Loop and South Side crew (D'Andrea, Roti Sr, Ferraro, Skids Caruso, Alex, Marcy) (the new Chinatown crew as taken over by the Cicero-Buccieri-Torello-LaPietra group), the Chi Heights crew (Roberto, Ammirato, LaPorte, Pilotto, Tocco, Palermo, Morgano), and also the old North Side crew (DeGeorge, Prio, DiBella, Solano). So, the Ep/Grand and Cicero-Chinatown crews are the only ones out there.

Today everyone is looking for who's the new boss or who are the top three members, but if they dont have any top admin and only remain in business partnership, they can easily go under the radar. They obviously still have some "street" operations going on, but their main target for the last two decades is legitimate enterprises and city contracts, like on who is going to pick up the garbage around Melrose Park or at O'Hare airport, or on who is going to place driving signs around MP and Grand and also own the best printing firms.....just saying.

I've said this for awhile. They would bring stronger families, more diverse in crime, less ratting.

Because to create a ndrine is enought to have 7 ndraghetisti,so the ndrina can be small but after take control of a hood a city. The only thing is the ok from the Società Maggiore in Calabria. Some ndrines are made by people tied by blood and many ndrines can merce due marriage for this reason some ndrine have 2 surname like Pelle-Vottari.
Thats a more fluid organization respect the mafia or camorra.

Correct. Must be a fucking idiot not to use Zips over some local dumb fuck.

If it wasn’t for this pesky thing called Customs & Border Patrol, bringing zips over would be a great idea.

Unless they’re going through Mexico illegally, legal immigration isn’t easy. It requires a sponsor, jobs lined up etc etc.

I’m sure some Sicilian guy would have a great story to pass the background checks.

This ain’t 1960 guys….stop dreaming of mob hits.

So there used to be 6 or 7 separate Crews now those Crews merged together with the 4 Current crews and I thought the 2 Sicilian families was the Black Hand crews that were Disbanded and that’s when Big Jim Colosimo became the First Boss of the Outfit and you mentioned the 2 Sicilian Crews around 1928 I Thought Capone was the Boss of the Outfit way before and Masseria Acutally Made him for him and his Outfit/Street Gang to be Considered Part of Cosa Nostra ?

Fly private.

Flying private doesn’t stop Custom & Border Patrol. That’s not how it works….