I agree with Pmacs thinking just not the time line.

When Gotti took over he controlled the Decavs, the Bonnano's, Colombo's, The Trafficanre's in FL.

After Gotti is taken off the street def the Genovese.

Any time b4 that I think the Gamvinoa were just so much bigger stronger and more stable.

Remember Carlo was the boss of bosses and Castalleno was the boss of bosses.

BOTH controlled the commission
So they had that additional power.

Gotti lost some of that power when took over.
The commission never officially ordered a hit on Gotti
Y?

He had too much power.

Chin had to get his errand boy Gaspipe,
However, what was left of the commission 1)Gave the Colombo's a seat back 2) Acknowledged Orena as official boss

That was Gotti's doing

Think about it up until Castallenno gets whacked the Gambinos even controlled Philly.

After Castalleno Chin moved in.

However, the Gambino's controlled everything.

Bensonhurst, it can't not be argued that John Gotti positioned himself to control the commission, however by the time Massino got his seat, Gotti was locked up, and the 3rd Colombo war weaken that family to where they were not effective and once again kicked off the commission. This was of course Gottis own doing. He had a strong ally in Orena, but Gotti was some of the Colombo family business and gave tactic support to Orena when it was discovered that Carmine Persico was thinking of doing a movie about his life. That was the perfect opening for John Gotti to do his double cross.
The thing is to not forget that the even though the Gambinos controlled the Colombos, Bonannos, Philadelphia, DeCavalcantes, and LoScalzo in Tampa. The Genovese family controlled Boston, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Buffalo, Cleveland, and Detroit. They were and are still powerful in the unions to this day.

I don’t know that Carmine was going to do what they say about his life ...if anything it was twisted .....and if by chance one or a couple other bosses sent word to not .... then why not now or ten years ago or fifteen years ago .

Many of these stories get twisted bad ....just like the ten paper clips story with Scarfo and Bruno and the supposed banishment to Atlantic City....

Now I remember the Carmine thing being talked about and it in the news but it most likely something completely different then a lifetime tell all made for tv show or book .

These things never get proof they for most part are fish stories or dick stories.


And if Carmine was going to do it it would of been i when the family was at its worst financially ... not back then when they had much more .

During Vito Genovese divorce trial in 1952 his wife estimated his weekly income at $40,000. $2,080,000 a year.

Over $19 million a year in todays money.

So Nucky did not give in to Sabella(who was the boss around the time u say ur dad was involved as a young man)….who counted the money back in those days?..Sabella..Nucky?& who was boss in the days when ur dad was a figure & who did ur pop answer to???

That's a better break down of what I was saying
The Gambino s hands down were the strogest.

Luciano and Adonis were at the Grand Hotel des Palmes Mafia meeting in 1957, so it 's obvious the Genoveses were involved in the heroin trade with the Sicilian Cosa Nostra.

I went to that hotel last year in Palermo Hollander, was interesting. Still had an old fashioned decor inside.

But other than maybe the late 60's through the early 80's they weren't the strongest. From the beginning of Luciano's reign, 1931 or so, until the late 60's, the Genovese were hands down stronger than than the Gambinos, inside and outside of NYC. Even during from the late 60's through the late 80's the Genovese were heavily involved in national rackets that the Gambinos had little to no involvement in, such as the Teamsters and LIUNA. They shared the ports, but the Genovese had the better end of that deal with Manhattan and the Jersey ports. They also controlled Miami and the south Florida ports. They were also bigger in NJ and New England even then than Gambinos ever were. Also, until Lucchese died Gambino wasn't even the biggest boss who was on the streets in NYC.

i agree italo-american mafia was the strongest worldwide in the 1920s-1960s period
the genoveses was probably always the strongest since te beginning (1890 morello family), the height of power from middle 1950s to early 1960s

NOT ACCORDING TO THE FEDS: READ THE ARTICLE The Gambino's had 400+ when Gotti took over the Genoveese had 300, I seen some data from years ago that said the Gambino's at one point were 1000 strong.


Read the article it is very interesting

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/09/03/...ses-succeed-the-leaderless-gambinos.html

Didn't Genoveese go to jail for 10 years for DRUGS?

How could Carlo be the "BOSS OF BOSSES" if he did not have the most POWER?
And than Castalleno headed the commission.

Why wasn't Genoveese or Costello the "BOSS OF BOSSES"

The same way the strongest crew from the family takes over the family, well the strongest family takes over the commission.

And that’s just from what she knows. He was probably making even more than that. If he had gone about his business maybe in a smarter or more discreet way then him and the other bosses of that time and prior to could have legitimized all of their cash flow and basically been like Michael Corleone in Godfather 3. I’ve said it before, but I believe that was the dream for most of the old timers. But for most of them, things fell apart before they could attain that goal.

From the 1920s-1960s I think you’re right. Did organized crime in Italy really overtake everybody in the 1970s?

I think Carlo probably built them up to be the powerhouse that they soon became. I’m not sure if they were even seen as equals to the Genovese family when Anastasia was boss. Carlo must’ve been a smart guy

For sure he was smart guy
Been boss for so many years without getting killed or anything it's not simple at all !
Building his family to be an empire !
You cannot fo that without being smart...

The American Mafia had abolished the title of "boss of bosses" by that time, but Carlo was seen as the most powerful for a period.

Here you have it:

Don Carlo

In the early 1960s, Gambino slowly moved against the prominent Anastasia loyalists, headed by caporegime Armand "Tommy" Rava. With Joseph Biondo as a solid underboss, Joseph Riccobono as Gambino's own consigliere, and with his top caporegimes, Aniello "Mr. Neil" Dellacroce, Paul "Big Paul" Castellano, Carmine "The Doctor" Lombardozzi, Joseph "Joe Piney" Armone and Carmine "Wagon Wheels" Fatico, the remaining Anastasia loyalists could never make a move.

Gambino quickly expanded his rackets all over the country. New Gambino rackets were created in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, Boston, San Francisco and Las Vegas. Gambino also, to regain complete control of Manhattan, took over the New York Longshoremen Union, where more than 90 percent of all New York City's ports were controlled. It was a great time, when the money rolled in from every Gambino racket in the U.S. and worked its way up to become America's most powerful crime family. Gambino also made his own family policy: "Deal and Die." This was Gambino's message to every Gambino family member; heroin and cocaine were highly lucrative, but were dangerous, and would also attract attention. The punishment for dealing drugs, in Gambino style, was death.

In the 1960s, the Gambino family had 500[8] (other sources have 700[9] or 800[10]) soldiers, within 30 crews making the family a $500,000,000-a-year-enterprise. In 1962, his eldest son Thomas Gambino married the daughter of fellow mob boss Tommy Lucchese, the new head of the Gagliano crime family, whom Gambino would become close to as a partner, friend, and relative. More than 1,000 people, relatives, friends, and amico nostro ("friends of ours"), were present during the wedding-ceremony. It has been rumored that Gambino personally gave Lucchese $30,000 as a "welcome gift" that same day.

As repayment, Lucchese cut his friend into the airport rackets that were under Lucchese control, especially at John F. Kennedy International Airport, where all unions, management, and security were controlled by Lucchese himself.

After Joseph Bonanno was forced into retirement by the Commission, Vito Genovese died of a heart attack, and Tommy Lucchese died of a brain tumor, Gambino's status and power on the Commission was elevated almost immediately.

While the Mafia had abolished the title of "boss of bosses," Gambino's position afforded him the powers such a title would have carried, as he was now the boss of the largest, wealthiest, and most powerful crime family in the country and was the head of the Commission, a position only Luciano had held before Gambino.

According to the feds it remained this way until a few years after GOTTI was arrested as he lost control of the Gambino's at such time, CHIN seized control:

Federal and state officials say that since Mr. Gotti, the head of the Gambino family, was convicted of murder and racketeering in 1992, the rival Genovese organization has supplanted the Gambino family as the most powerful Mafia group in New York and the nation.
The shift has placed significant power in the hands of Vincent Gigante, the boss of the Genovese family and now the decisive voice on the Mafia's commission, the group that sets mobster policies and resolves disputes.

Carlo Gambino become so powerful because yes,was smart but was sicilian and in the 1950s most of the family boss was sicilian and/or was born and emigrated to america so thanks to this net he can expand the family rackets,a thing that a boss like costello that was calabrian or genovese that,worst, was neapolitan wouldn't do.

Rava was killed in down in Florida in 1958. Dellacroce and the Fatico brothers were Anastasia loyalists. James Failla and Salvatore Aurello were Anastasia loyalists but switched to Gambinos side after Rava was killed. The Rava crew was split into four crews possibly five crews because of this. Aurello crew, Dellacroce crew, Failla crew, and Fatico crew. The split and the fact Gambino did not want his rivals to overpower him in the family is what led Rava crew split.

?

There's no such thing as a boss of bosses. Gambino and Lucchese were the best two politicans on the Commission, therefore, they became the most powerful. Then Lucchese died. It's very simple.

Giacomo, why was Rava allowed to have such a gigantic crew? Was he defacto Underboss to Anastasia?

italian organized crime groups became very strong in the 1970s, sicilian mafia and camorra were at their peak from the late 1970s to early1990s, sicilian mafia was at that time the strongest worldwide (but they were both very strong in 1800s too, sicilian mafia particularly during the late 1800)

@m2w I see some or the cash amounts from seizures by law enforcement on some of the top Sicilian and Camorra members from that time and it’s mind boggling. They started to get into the heroin and cocaine trade in the late 1970s? Is that when they really took over?

Was $30,000 seen as a lot? I know it’s a gift and it’s still a lot but for some reason I would expect him to give more. And for Lucchese to cut him in on JFK, it’s like the difference between buying a bond on google when it first started out and buying stock.

Why wouldn’t Genovese or Costello not be able to expand the family rackets because of that? And Costello was northern Calabrese I believe which was closer to campania. Southern Calabria is more like Sicily in dialect and culture I’m assuming. And I would think that both Costello and Genovese had a lot of support from Sicilian mobsters within their crime families in order to become bosses no? My family is from Sicily and I’ve never understood the differences growing up.

Early 70tys was shakey for the genovese. They kill eboli. They have to kill that rapist capo name forgets me. He was a huge money maker for vito. And died after vito couldnt protect him. I think carlo threw hos wait behind funzi tieri to be in the hierarchy after he manipulated eboli death. He hated gambino

$30,000 is the same as giving $250,000 GIFT, NOT TOO SHABY!!!

Basically at the time of the wedding the Gambino's had between 400-800 men and they had control of the Luchese family as well through marriage.

I agree at what you are saying the $30,000 ($250,000) was an outstanding gift however, getting in on JFK was probably MILLIONS per year.

Anyhow Tommy Gambino was supposed to eventually be boss so Luchese was giving to his son in law, that was obliviously the main reason for it.

This explains why BURKE gave GOTTI $250,000 from Lufthansa


You know whats REALLY CRAZY!! At then end of the day the Lufthansa Millions ended up getting blown at a A.C. casino by Vinnie Gorgeous, that's KARMA for you, all that BLOOD all those bodies, and the money gets BLOWN.

CRAZY SHIT!!!