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"Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets #1097713
08/23/24 02:16 PM
08/23/24 02:16 PM
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NYMafia Offline OP
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Last edited by NYMafia; 08/23/24 02:17 PM.
Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097719
08/23/24 03:04 PM
08/23/24 03:04 PM
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Malavita Offline
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Interesting subject.

I am currently finishing reading a book on 80/90's Colombo associate Carmine Imbriale who was heavily involved in the credit card rackets. He explains in details how the whole thing worked and how he operated his racket. He also said that pretty much every mob guy in Brooklyn had access to these cards.


A few stories regarding the use of fake cards :

- Henry Hill said that Paulie Vario would take his wife to dinner and use a fake card to pay even though he had millions. That's just how these mobsters are, they love the hustle and get a thrill out of it. It's not about getting a free meal, it's about hustling your way out of everything.

- Greg Scarpa was arrested with around 90 fake cards and wasn't prosecuted while Carmine Imbriale, an associate of Cramine Sessa, got caught with 3 cards and got a jailed sentence. This largely contributed to raise the rumours about Scarpa being informant.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: Malavita] #1097721
08/23/24 03:33 PM
08/23/24 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Malavita
Interesting subject.

I am currently finishing reading a book on 80/90's Colombo associate Carmine Imbriale who was heavily involved in the credit card rackets. He explains in details how the whole thing worked and how he operated his racket. He also said that pretty much every mob guy in Brooklyn had access to these cards.


A few stories regarding the use of fake cards :

- Henry Hill said that Paulie Vario would take his wife to dinner and use a fake card to pay even though he had millions. That's just how these mobsters are, they love the hustle and get a thrill out of it. It's not about getting a free meal, it's about hustling your way out of everything.

- Greg Scarpa was arrested with around 90 fake cards and wasn't prosecuted while Carmine Imbriale, an associate of Cramine Sessa, got caught with 3 cards and got a jailed sentence. This largely contributed to raise the rumours about Scarpa being informant.


Yes indeed. At one time, back in the 1960s through 1990s era, counterfeit and/or stolen credit cards were one of the NY mob's easiest rackets. I won't say everybody dabbled in them, but tons of guys did.

Some got rich through it, some just made extra cash or got perks like you mentioned. But it was a very very lively racket for lots of guys. (I'm sure in many other mob-controlled cities as well)

It was considered easy money.

Last edited by NYMafia; 08/23/24 03:34 PM.
Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097758
08/23/24 05:16 PM
08/23/24 05:16 PM
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They were big in the late 80’s but everyone would get caught. Why? The secret service would establish a common denominator and see that the fake cards ( which looked fake) were used at stores where the owners or worker would have to be in on it. They woiuld lean on them and someone always cracked.
Stolen cards( are different). A few purchases then ditch it. If spending patterns are broken the CC company will have the store clerk “ call in “ and u will be asked personal info. They ( fraud dept )also keep u on hold while they call the actual card holders to see if they are home and fraud is involved. They then ask to speak to the clerk who is instructed to call security while u are sitting there. Pro’s do have safe guards tnough.

Last edited by Lenox; 08/23/24 05:19 PM.
Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097760
08/23/24 05:22 PM
08/23/24 05:22 PM
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Thats 100% correct.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097769
08/23/24 05:44 PM
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In the US, often you don't have to put your pin code to use the cards. You can just sign. That helped a lot to fraud the system.

In France for instance, we have to put the pin code unless it's a contacless payment (below 50 euros). It doesn't mean there is no fraud but it's much harder i guess.

What they do here is they put a device in the ATM so when you put your card, the device scan your information and frauders can make a copy of your card. It's known as the "Marseille double" because mobsters from Marseille sort of invented that fraud.

Last edited by Malavita; 08/23/24 05:46 PM.
Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: Malavita] #1097772
08/23/24 05:49 PM
08/23/24 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Malavita
In the US, often you don't have to put your pin code to use the cards. You can just sign. That helped a lot to fraud the system.

In France for instance, we have to put the pin code unless it's a contacless payment (below 50 euros). It doesn't mean there is no fraud but it's much harder i guess.

What they do here is they put a device in the ATM so when you put your card, the device scan your information and frauders can make a copy of your card. It's known as the "Marseille double" because mobsters from Marseille sort of invented that fraud.


Thats very interesting, Malavita. We, here in the U.S., also have a similar device to capture credit card info. I believe it's called a "skimmer" if memory serves me. The scamsters place this innocent looking device (which blends into the ATM machine and actually appears to be part of it) over the slot where the c.c. goes.

It sounds like the device they use in Marseilles.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097780
08/23/24 06:03 PM
08/23/24 06:03 PM
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That's exactly that NYM. Same stuff.

The Chip card was a French invention and we began to use it 10 years before the other countries started to so it makes sense that the first credit card fraud came out of France. Especially from Marseilles, the French capital of organized crime.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: Malavita] #1097781
08/23/24 06:08 PM
08/23/24 06:08 PM
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Salvatore (Bill) Bonanno did four years in a federal pen in the Seventies for 62 counts of "mail fraud"--using a stolen credit card.


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Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: Turnbull] #1097797
08/23/24 06:56 PM
08/23/24 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
Salvatore (Bill) Bonanno did four years in a federal pen in the Seventies for 62 counts of "mail fraud"--using a stolen credit card.


Yes. I remember that. I think the credit card fraud case also involved Bonanno soldier Sam Perrone, who had taken one of his shylock customers credit card who was indebted to him. He then handed it to Bill Bonanno to use as he needed to.

I also think the 4 year bid was the first of several jail bids Bonanno did over the years.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: Malavita] #1097835
08/24/24 04:34 AM
08/24/24 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Malavita
That's exactly that NYM. Same stuff.

The Chip card was a French invention and we began to use it 10 years before the other countries started to so it makes sense that the first credit card fraud came out of France. Especially from Marseilles, the French capital of organized crime.



Lol. Good stuff, Malavita.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097863
08/24/24 11:09 AM
08/24/24 11:09 AM
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the machines you are talking about were called "reader writers". They would record the data on the back of the strip. Gas stations are notorious for using these when you give the attendant your card. The issue was if ever used in a store, the number on the receipt would not match the number on the actual card so an astute cashier could cause an issue. They would record data from the 'readers" and then put them on the strip of a stolen card that was no longer good. The true pro's get real cards with all the personal info and methodically make charges without c reading a fraud alert. Remember, camera's are now everywhere.

Last edited by Lenox; 08/24/24 11:09 AM.
Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097876
08/24/24 02:32 PM
08/24/24 02:32 PM
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I remember asking about the scene in Casino where the two guys try to bang the casino out of 200k or whatever, and pesci goes over and stops them at the Cashout window. They leave without their winnings.

The answer was that they used stolen cards to get the initial chips to play with.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: Lenox] #1097879
08/24/24 02:52 PM
08/24/24 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lenox
the machines you are talking about were called "reader writers". They would record the data on the back of the strip. Gas stations are notorious for using these when you give the attendant your card. The issue was if ever used in a store, the number on the receipt would not match the number on the actual card so an astute cashier could cause an issue. They would record data from the 'readers" and then put them on the strip of a stolen card that was no longer good. The true pro's get real cards with all the personal info and methodically make charges without c reading a fraud alert. Remember, camera's are now everywhere.



Good info, Lenox. I never heard that terminology before.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: alicecooper] #1097881
08/24/24 03:13 PM
08/24/24 03:13 PM
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Malavita Offline
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Originally Posted by alicecooper
I remember asking about the scene in Casino where the two guys try to bang the casino out of 200k or whatever, and pesci goes over and stops them at the Cashout window. They leave without their winnings.

The answer was that they used stolen cards to get the initial chips to play with.


Thanks for that because I never understood that scene. I figured they were trying to shake down the place but it didn't make sense to go to the cashier.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097891
08/24/24 06:32 PM
08/24/24 06:32 PM
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Lenox Offline
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If you guys really want to be floored, a crew installed ATM machines in a mall and when someone put in their card to withdraw money they would get an error message and just go to a different machine. What they didn't know was that the ATM would record all of the data on their card and save it including their pin. a few days later they world return to the mall with work clothes and a dolly and remove the machine. Their shirts would reference ATM repair or something. They would then put the data on a hotel room key card and go up and down the east coast withdrawing money from ATM's.
How did they get caught? The secret service figured they would be storing the ATM's somewhere and because they were pro's, they figured they wouldn't keep them at their own homes. They then hit every storage facility in every area that had an ATM in a mall and asked the managers at the Storage Units if they saw anyone with ATM's. Finally one guy said, "oh yeah, the other day". They found the unit, put it under surveillance and the rest is history.

Last edited by Lenox; 08/24/24 06:34 PM.
Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097922
08/25/24 12:11 AM
08/25/24 12:11 AM
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No doubt. Back in the day, If you knew what you were doing, there was a fortune to be made in these rackets.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097925
08/25/24 01:28 AM
08/25/24 01:28 AM
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I knew some people who dabbled in stolen cards who drove across country. They steal the cards from New York, Connecticut, New Jersey when they visited relatives or friends, and make their way back to California, Nevada, and Arizona. On the way home they start using the cards for food, cloths, and half way they would go big with items, and stop right before they hit their home state. The reason is back in those days, you had time as in a couple of days before they caught on about the stolen cards. It got tougher when it was only a few hours, so you could not stay over night in a town and use it. Fred who passed away years ago panicked one time, cause he stole a card and tried using it in Ohio, but it would not go through and thought the news traveled faster, turned out the card had been canceled before he had stolen it, they would steal 2 to 4 cards from wealthy businessmen or who they thought were rich. He paid cash cash for dinner and threw away the card and didn't use another card until Illinois. That was back in the day. Another guy who is still alive and did time, had an inside man who would duplicate a card of a wealthy client who was new. Give his information and would use it after pattern was made on purchases. He would get the recipes and copy the shopping later on with big purchases and sell most of the items, other times he would not use it a few times on whatever and through it away. It last for some years, but apparently his inside man was a druggie who eventually ODed on something, the never used his name on the paperwork he used a coworkers name. He never got caught on the cards only on stolen property. Card readers have been around for over two decades, the smart criminals and college students figured it how back then, now it is easy to where anyone can do it. They put the device at gas stations, convenient stores, ATM, even at bank ATM if they are ballsy enough.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097939
08/25/24 08:31 AM
08/25/24 08:31 AM
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To a greater of lesser degree, members and associates of all five families...and in many other families, augmented themselves financially with this racket.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097943
08/25/24 09:42 AM
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The other gold mine was having a hook at post office distribution center. An insider would grab cards( the enveloped were easy to spot) and sell them for 5-10% of the credit limit. Back in the day you didint have to activate from your home phone. Asking your mothers maiden name came later.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: Lenox] #1097947
08/25/24 10:55 AM
08/25/24 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Lenox
The other gold mine was having a hook at post office distribution center. An insider would grab cards( the enveloped were easy to spot) and sell them for 5-10% of the credit limit. Back in the day you didint have to activate from your home phone. Asking your mothers maiden name came later.



You happens to be 1000% correct, Lenox. Having a "hook" directly into a Post Office was a near perfect way for wise guys to operate credit card rackets. Because, not only could a "friendly" mailman swipe cards for them, but he also would make sure to grab the "follow up" letter the credit card companies would send out to their customers, advising them to call immediately if they hadn't received their new card in the mail yet.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097969
08/25/24 04:15 PM
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The goal would be to bang out the card in 1-3 days. No single purchase over $2500 so it wouldnt get flagged. 2-3 purchaes in a day or else the fraud dept gets flagged. A 20k card wasnt really worrh it becaus it would get flagged well before that limit.
5k gold cards were the best back then.
They were like heroin, very addicting. Unfortunately it was only a matter of time until the postal inspectors got involved and they live for that shit.

Last edited by Lenox; 08/25/24 04:16 PM.
Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: Lenox] #1097972
08/25/24 06:23 PM
08/25/24 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lenox
The goal would be to bang out the card in 1-3 days. No single purchase over $2500 so it wouldnt get flagged. 2-3 purchaes in a day or else the fraud dept gets flagged. A 20k card wasnt really worrh it becaus it would get flagged well before that limit.
5k gold cards were the best back then.
They were like heroin, very addicting. Unfortunately it was only a matter of time until the postal inspectors got involved and they live for that shit.



Sure, credit cards were a violation of Federal criminal statues, and criminal use of the mails. The U.S. Postal Inspectors, the FBI, the Secret Service...the whole gamut of local and federal authorities eventually joined the game.

Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: NYMafia] #1097979
08/25/24 07:41 PM
08/25/24 07:41 PM
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Lenox Offline
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If some knucklehead got caught with a few cards he lifted from someone's wallet and got caught using it he would be handled by local cops and it would be a slap the wrist and some restitution. If the local cops were told the cards were bought from a guy who worked at a post office, the postal inspectors would get involved. If the cards were counterfeit, the secret service would get the call. If it was identity fraud, the fbi and postal inspectors would be on the case.

Last edited by Lenox; 08/25/24 07:41 PM.
Re: "Plastic Gold"...The Credit Card Rackets [Re: Lenox] #1097987
08/26/24 06:44 AM
08/26/24 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Lenox
If some knucklehead got caught with a few cards he lifted from someone's wallet and got caught using it he would be handled by local cops and it would be a slap the wrist and some restitution. If the local cops were told the cards were bought from a guy who worked at a post office, the postal inspectors would get involved. If the cards were counterfeit, the secret service would get the call. If it was identity fraud, the fbi and postal inspectors would be on the case.


Good info. And yes, depending upon the circumstances, even the local NYCPD and other local agencies investigated c.c.

Because of jurisdictional requirements, that's often also why the feds and locals worked together.


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