I think you're right about that. They are not even a 'national' MC club. they dominate on the east coast. thats it. So makes sense they wouldn't be up there

Thanks

Do you think they got a presence in Europe or Australia?

Something I just figured out was that the Rebels MC were in Canada.

The Pagans? No, absolutely not. I'd be extremely surprised if they had a presence in any of those places. Where they exist, they are high-profile and strong. But I think they only operate in a dozen or so east coast states. If that many

That’s crazy.
Wondering why they are in the big 4 of the MC’s

Do you think the Mongols MC are a bigger MC and are stronger than the Pagans?

Ontario cops warn of huge Hells Angels biker event near Toronto this weekend
https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/07/ontario-cops-warn-huge-hells-angels-biker-event-toronto/

Toronto police bracing for up to 1,000 bikers at ‘unsanctioned’ Hells Angels procession Thursday
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...rcycles-descend-on-toronto-thursday.html

Island Hells Angels face trafficking and gun charges after major investigation

https://vancouversun.com/news/local...nd-gun-charges-after-major-investigation

B.C. drug-trafficking sting reels in seven men, including full-patch Hells Angel

https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/bc-drug-trafficking-lower-mainland-okanagan-hells-angels

lui è nei guai

a blazing saddles famous gregory woolley?

I highly doubt Drake's a HA member. Could he have put some HA members on his payroll to boost his gangster cred? I'd say that's more likely.
As we all know, Drake is the furthest thing from a tough guy. He's an industry plant who rose to fame as a child actor in Degrassi - The Next Generation. I wouldn't say his upbringing was entirely privileged - as a child he was raised by a single mother in a more working class neighborhood and his father did do jail time on some drug related charges - but he never ran with the rough crowd either.

OPP keep­ing an eye on Hells Angels club­house
https://pressreader.com/article/281487871443598

balotelli di canada lol

[deleted]

Traitement de canal et Viagra
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/...trafic/traitement-de-canal-et-viagra.php

Renvoyé au pénitencier en raison du conflit avec les gangs de rue
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/...son-du-conflit-avec-les-gangs-de-rue.php

Former Hells Angels hitman granted day parole again
Dean Daniel Kelsie, 50, is serving a life sentence for murder
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...itman-granted-day-parole-again-1.7271013

Hells Angel and associate badly hurt in Trail shooting, now in hospital in Kelowna
https://vancouversun.com/news/bc-he...t-in-trail-shooting-now-hospital-kelowna

Cross-posting -- see Ciment's post at http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1098559#Post1098559, as well as his other posts about Angelo Pandeli.

Behind a paywall.

Hells Angels MC Mega Bosses Marty Robert & Angelo Pandeli Talked Euro Drug Market At June Dubai Meal, Per AU Report
https://gangsterreport.com/hells-an...market-at-june-dubai-meal-per-au-report/

Cross-posting -- see Ciment's post at http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1098559#Post1098559, as well as his other posts about Angelo Pandeli.

Not sure whether item to which I've linked below borrowed from Scott Burnstein's article.

https://raids.fr/2024/09/05/arrestation-dun-president-de-hells-angels-australiens-a-dubai/

Cross-posting -- see Ciment's post at http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1098559#Post1098559, as well as his other posts about Angelo Pandeli.

Actually, Martin Robert is mentioned in the item about Pandeli to which Ciment linked a few days ago. I’ve repeated the link below.

https://www.borderlandbeat.com/2024/09/australias-most-wanted-drug-trafficker.html

Cross-posting -- see Ciment's post at http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1098559#Post1098559, as well as his other posts about Angelo Pandeli.

Australia’s most wanted Angelo Pandeli met with Canadian Hells Angels before arrest
https://greekherald.com.au/news/cri...ith-canadian-hells-angels-before-arrest/

A comment from that borderland beat article antimafia posted above:

:"a CJNG member in Guadalajara was caught on tape claiming hells angels Canada where buying so much cocaine they had issues filling the orders. this was caught on tape by a canadian informant."

Guess the times they needed the Rizzutos or anyone else are long gone.

i guess ill reserve my critique for when the new burnstein reports pop up for free. just by the title of one of them...'rizzutos using street gang members for hits' or something equally ridiculous, im paraphrasing, they look like doozys.
hey scott!! welcome to the party. rizzutos and other clans have been using this MO for decades. another article looks to have to do with the luppinos in hamilton? im off base sorry.

back to the topic at hand, the HA has had direct connections to cartels since late 90s, google guy lepage. this connect vanished with massive 2002 operation pringtemps in qc. its possible in the interim HA chapters were able to use mafia connects. also possible there was another import network operating alongside one being led by mom boucher and lepage. very common practice to have different unconnected networks operating unless one is busted or infiltrated by informant or police.

the comment from a cjng member is interesting for a couple reasons. it comes from operation dead hand i think, the jan 2024 bust of roberto scoppa et al. it therefore proves it was indeed the cjng that roberto scoppa (and i imagine his brother andrea) were working with on cocaine imports. would prove as well the cjng currently working with qc HA chapters. but that last point isnt excusive to HA. it has been said that cartels will sell to whomever regardless if they are at war. i suppose also then the HA or any crime group could commit crimes to benefit cartel or offer more money per kg to indeed obtain an exclusive connect to cocaine.

Yeah this isn't 30 years ago, these days everyone and their mother buys from Mexicans. It would be more impressive if they bought directly from South America and brought it in themselves, like the RIzzuto's used to do, or like the Ndrangheta or the Kinahans do today(they were also mentioned in that article). Much more profitable that way.

I wonder why the Hells Angels don't try to do that, if they're as big as it's claimed. I know crime writers in Canada made a big deal about the Mexicans "pushing" the Mafia and the bikers out of importing, supposedly that's why they're fighting over gambling, because the Mexicans took over importing. But at the end of the day the Mexicans can't force anyone to buy from them, and the HA control street sales and mid level wholesale AND the ports, so if they brought their loads in from Colombia or Venezuela, how could the Mexicans stop them? I'm assuming just like Mexicans sell to everybody, the South American cartels sell to everybody as well.

This is all interesting stuff, too bad Canada doesn't have many rats so we could get to the bottom of this

This is a point I've made that's not usually considered by the Mob Watchers.Whenever people list the crime factions up there, they never consider the Mexicans and how that affects the balance of power in the streets.

Also, I've also tried pointing out, the South American contacts are the big money. The Mexicans work well with large distributors, big gangs and the like. But it takes a huge corporate structure that's essentially successful already to continuously send huge loads like that. Gangs don't have that. The Mexicans don't even need importers really. THEY ARE THE IMPORTERS.They need distributors. They will use a high level broker like a Pietrantonio or perhaps this Roberto Scoppa or the Indian businessman because it makes it easier, bit I'm not sure they even need them.

The Hells did try to import from Colombia direct, at least Martin Robert did. The Mexicans would never need to force anyone to buy from them. That's just hyperbole. Fact is no one can source as much coke and ship it like them. They don't need guns, just better prices to win the market. Look at what the Albanians did in the UK. Also, no one can actually eat losses like the Mexicans. The same seizures that would cripple a mid-level operation the Mexicans will just write off like a cost of doing business.

I've come to believe the Rizzutos never really controlled drugs. I think this was the Caruana- Cuntrera. I think the Rizzutos held a direct, physical presence in Montreal that both clans benefitted from. I used to see them as one thing, now I think they were.....not exactly in lockstep? I dunno....
Right up until that 5400 kilo bust they lost in like 94-95, the Cuntreras were tops in coke amongst the mafia. Then the six Ndrangheta distributors, clans like Morabito and Alvaro it seems took the South American contacts. In the 90s to mid 2000's, there were powerful Naples clans just as active in importation as the Calabrians. By 98, in the Sixth Family they have the Rizzutos trying to buy coke from a Florida wholesaler. Local shit. Something critical happened.....

Because at around the same time frame, early 2000's, Gianni Nichi went through one of Frank Calis Inzerillo contacts (Florida people), and they were getting 500 kilo loads from South America at 5k apiece. The Inzerillos were partners with Nick Rizzuto.

An enduring question I have no answer to is why ( or rather how) did the Inzerillos, after all that happened to them manage to hold onto those contacts and deploy them as a resource, when the Rizzutos seem to have lost them? I think the Calabrians assumed the Sicilians ( Caruana) debts.
But I think the Inzerillos maintained their standing in South America.

You make some good points. Andrew Scoppa also said that people thought Vito was rich but it was Alfonso Caruana who was really filthy rich, and Vito "listened to him very closely" or something along those lines. If the Caruana Cuntrera's really stopped/slowed down coke importation, I wonder what the reason really was. That 5 ton seizure would have hurt but at that point they were moving big weight for 15-20 years, heroin too. And that was when the profits per key were much higher than today. I doubt one seizure, as big as it was, would have crippled them and left them in debt.

As far as the Calabrians taking over from the Sicilians, that may have been true partially. I remember in Saviano's book there was a Sicilian broker who got kidnapped by the Colombians and held because of an unpaid debt until the Calabrians stepped in and cut a deal for him to be released.

But that would have been true for the Sicilians in Sicily who were in shambles after the Corleonesi war against the state, that wouldn't have affected the Caruana Cuntrera, who were strictly brokers. They were already established in Venezuela for 20 years, I'm sure they had all the cartel and military contacts they needed.

Without some high level rats I think we'll never have a clear picture of the coke business in North America because crime writers like to exaggerate the importance whatever organization/crew they're writing about and cops do the same about the people they're busting.

As far as the Mexicans go, I could see it going both ways. Yeah they move a lot of weight and have huge revenues but they also have huge expenses. Seizures aside, they pay a lot in bribes to the government, spend a lot to recruit sicarios and buy guns.

I also get the feeling they're not as good at smuggling as the European groups are. I was reading the stuff that came out about CIfuentes' testimony and I got the feeling they were spending a lot in transportation/bribes to bring a load in.

Pound for pound I think the Ndrangheta or Albanian clans that have direct ties to producer countries make more profit per load than the Mexicans because they have less expenses and prices in Europe are higher.

you may be right cabrini as far as the relationship between the rizzuto family and the caruana-cuntreras goes. more likely in an alliance in those years not one unified 'family'. it was domenico manno that got busted in florida for importing cocaine in 1998, but that was not the rizzutos only pipeline for drugs. 2 years previous according to indictment, miguel torres and 3 others conspired from 1996-2004 to import into canada 25 tons of cocaine from colombia. the connect in colombia was the munoz-munera twins. torres has long been conected to nick rizzuto jr. i believe both grew up together went to same schools. and likely other networks we will never know of.

something though did change around 2014 in montreal as far as cartel influence. from the el chapo trial we learned that alex cifuentes was arrested in mexico nov 2013, deported to colombia dec 2014. at some point between these dates he agreed to cooperate against el chapo. with this arrest and cooperation cifuentes could not have been relied upon for exports to canada. el chapo as we know was arrested feb 22 2014 and imprisoned in mexico. perhaps the guzman faction of sinaloa cartel was not able to satisfy cocaine needs any longer and passed this on to another faction in cartel. or perhaps the new jalisco/los cuinis cartel took advantage of the vacuum in montreal.

there was a radio canada story about the fact that abigail gonzalaez valencia, head of los cuinis and bro-in-law to cartel boss nemesio, had been seen at an apartment in montreal several times in 2014. valencia had been traveling internationally with a fake passport. as alluded to in radio canada article he likely was not in montreal on vacation. i could not find any specific dates as to when valencia was in montreal but very coincidental i think. there was also mention in a lapresse article concerning the arrest and sentence of another cartel member segio almaraz-martin for cocaine possession i think. martin plead guilty 2017 after investigation found trafficking was being done to a ceramique/marble business in montreal.

all to say with the sinaloa cartel connect starting to fall apart for many reasons circa 2012 first in ontario then into quebec you can see the possibility of a rival moving in to take over. i think this is the case in regards to montreal.

https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/...exicains-ont-leurs-gerants-au-quebec.php

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1061874/cartel-mexique-montreal-faux-passeport-canada

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