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An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs #1098200
08/28/24 08:56 PM
08/28/24 08:56 PM
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Liggio Offline OP
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People love to point out that the movie The Godfather greatly perpetuated the myth of the Mafia being opposed to the drug business. But if you notice, Don Corleone never said that he was MORALLY against drug dealing, only that it would hurt his relationships with politicians and that business was already good for him. Anyway, something I've been thinking about.

Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Liggio] #1101048
09/28/24 12:39 AM
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Only a hand full of bosses were against it, Tony Accardo of Chicago, Frank Balistreri of Milwaukee as examples. The rest went along with no selling drugs policy with lip service, such as Mike Miranda, Paul Castellano, Phil Rustelli. They had no problem taking money from drugs as long as they did not know about or the guy didn't get caught. The main reason for the ban was guys would get arrested and face longer prison sentences which would make them thinking about informing or flip.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Liggio] #1101049
09/28/24 01:10 AM
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Tony Accardo was seen meeting with major heroin traffickers when he was Boss at his home

Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Liggio] #1101050
09/28/24 02:27 AM
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Lol the Pape bros and Coduto werent "major" drug dealers lol they were simple street dealers who got caught by undercover agents The "major" ones were usually the guys who financed their deals and also brought the dope, and besides Chicago, most of them were already in Detroit or on the east coast or out of the country. Btw, where did you find the information about Accardo being visited by Iacullo or Coduto at his home???? I wonder....lol

Ahhhh...those were the days....

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=913971&page=1

"On March 16 and 17, 1954, FBN agents arrested eleven members of the crew on narcotics charges, including Iacullo, Coduto and Pape and quickly took them into custody. Now, this is a quite “interesting” or different situation, where the “middle men” such as the three main defendants had direct contacts, not only with some members of the Outfit, but also with some of the top level guys such as Accardo and Giancana. Both bosses knew that all three middle men were stand up guys, with no kind of ideas to say even a word to the cops, and that they were going to take their prison sentences like a real future “Mafiosi”. But they already made one fatal mistake by bringing an undercover agent into their crew and that kind of a mistake in the eyes of the bosses was punishable by death. In fact, Accardo was the one who was knee deep in shit, because in a matter of months before the arrests, Iacullo was seen going in and out of Accardo’s home for more than 20 times. So naturally the Mob boss was scared from the bad publicity given by the narcotics trade and avoided any government heat that might jeopardize his vast gambling operations, meaning Accardo was ready to eliminate anyone at anytime if things went out of control, like in the current situation."


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Liggio] #1101080
09/28/24 10:01 AM
09/28/24 10:01 AM
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But Bonanno always denied participating in violence – or drugs. “He was very opposed to drugs,” Talese said.

LOL Joe Bonanno was one of the biggest importers.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Hollander] #1101098
09/28/24 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
But Bonanno always denied participating in violence – or drugs. “He was very opposed to drugs,” Talese said.

LOL Joe Bonanno was one of the biggest importers.


Thats right and believe it or not, some of the "traditional Cosa Nostra" fanatics still believe that Bonanno was never involved in narcotics lol cant believe the ignorance of those so-called "researchers"


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Toodoped] #1101099
09/28/24 03:36 PM
09/28/24 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by Hollander
But Bonanno always denied participating in violence – or drugs. “He was very opposed to drugs,” Talese said.

LOL Joe Bonanno was one of the biggest importers.


Thats right and believe it or not, some of the "traditional Cosa Nostra" fanatics still believe that Bonanno was never involved in narcotics lol cant believe the ignorance of those so-called "researchers"


They were so bold in the trade, the other NY families took away their seat in the Commission. grin


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Hollander] #1101114
09/28/24 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by Hollander
But Bonanno always denied participating in violence – or drugs. “He was very opposed to drugs,” Talese said.

LOL Joe Bonanno was one of the biggest importers.


Thats right and believe it or not, some of the "traditional Cosa Nostra" fanatics still believe that Bonanno was never involved in narcotics lol cant believe the ignorance of those so-called "researchers"


They were so bold in the trade, the other NY families took away their seat in the Commission. grin


+1


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Toodoped] #1101132
09/28/24 06:07 PM
09/28/24 06:07 PM
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The Mafia has been dealing drugs since Day One. Don Vito Cascio Ferro came to NYC in the early years of the last century in part to establish a drugs pipeline between Europe and the US. Charlie Luciano dealt drugs as a young man, and is reputed to have ratted out a partner in return for getting a pass from the cops. Joe Bonanno's "vacation" in Italy in 1957 was really a meeting with Luciano and some Sicilians to make Bonanno the top drugs guy in America. The aborted Apalachin NY meeting that year was, in part, an attempt by Vito Genovese to outflank Bonanno as the top drugs guy. He and Joe Valachi went to prison on drug charges. John Gotti was the top earner in Neil Dellacroce's empire because some of his crew dealt drugs...and on and on.

Drug-dealing puts Mafia bosses in a quandary: They know that heavy penalties are a threat to them. But they love the money that drugs bring in. They also know that a “ban” on drug trafficking in their families would be unenforceable—there is too much money and greed to stop it. They wouldn’t be able to effectively police their families: how could they know everything that every street guy was doing every hour of every day? They might be in the position of having to kill the wrong guy, or worse (from their viewpoint), a good earner. Finally, a real “ban” would simply drive the trafficking totally underground—meaning that they wouldn’t get their cut.

So the Mafia Dons fall back on the common denominator of Mob life: hypocrisy. They declare a "ban" on anyone caught selling drugs, with a death penalty for violators--and promptly look the other way--what they don't know won't hurt them. They figure that the threat will discourage the weaker soldiers, who are more likely to get caught. The more capable, ambitious guys are be willing to take the risks—and are less likely to get caught. The money continues to flow upward, which is all the bosses care about.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Turnbull] #1101135
09/28/24 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
The Mafia has been dealing drugs since Day One. Don Vito Cascio Ferro came to NYC in the early years of the last century in part to establish a drugs pipeline between Europe and the US. Charlie Luciano dealt drugs as a young man, and is reputed to have ratted out a partner in return for getting a pass from the cops. Joe Bonanno's "vacation" in Italy in 1957 was really a meeting with Luciano and some Sicilians to make Bonanno the top drugs guy in America. The aborted Apalachin NY meeting that year was, in part, an attempt by Vito Genovese to outflank Bonanno as the top drugs guy. He and Joe Valachi went to prison on drug charges. John Gotti was the top earner in Neil Dellacroce's empire because some of his crew dealt drugs...and on and on.

Drug-dealing puts Mafia bosses in a quandary: They know that heavy penalties are a threat to them. But they love the money that drugs bring in. They also know that a “ban” on drug trafficking in their families would be unenforceable—there is too much money and greed to stop it. They wouldn’t be able to effectively police their families: how could they know everything that every street guy was doing every hour of every day? They might be in the position of having to kill the wrong guy, or worse (from their viewpoint), a good earner. Finally, a real “ban” would simply drive the trafficking totally underground—meaning that they wouldn’t get their cut.

So the Mafia Dons fall back on the common denominator of Mob life: hypocrisy. They declare a "ban" on anyone caught selling drugs, with a death penalty for violators--and promptly look the other way--what they don't know won't hurt them. They figure that the threat will discourage the weaker soldiers, who are more likely to get caught. The more capable, ambitious guys are be willing to take the risks—and are less likely to get caught. The money continues to flow upward, which is all the bosses care about.


Not for nothing, Turnbull. But that was very well said.....(and so very true)

Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Liggio] #1101198
09/29/24 07:41 AM
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As I already stated, I also agree with both @TB and @H but to be honest in this "research thing" of ours, Accrado was probably one of the rare bosses who at first took his cut from the narcotics trade but later learned his lesson and became one of the biggest opposers of the narcotics trade within his crime syndicate, and even ordered the murders of high level members, not just soldiers and associates. During the 60's and 70's the Chicago Outfit was THE number one target of the federal government and so the top bosses were already satisfied with the income which they received from different rackets, meaning they didnt need to be involved in the dope trade which at the time was slowly becoming THE number one illegal racket, again in the eyes of law. But as @TB already said, this also falls in the category of so-called hypocrisy, obviously because most of the Outfit's bosses were already satisfied with all of the money they made during the previous decades, but when shit hits the fan, they suddenly decided to ban the dope trade under the penalty of death, while their low level soldiers and associates were making ends meet (again under the penalty of death) mainly because some of the Outfit's most lucrative rackets were on the downfall because of the numerous FBI operations and raids (previously made with the help of confidential informants such as Ralph Pierce, Lou Fratto, Butch Blasi or Ted DeRose etc.) Thats why some of the fellas continued their involvement in the dope trade, obviously in a very stealth way. When the old fellas like Aiuppa, LaPietra and Cerone went to jail , the new guys like DiFronzo and Centracchio again began investing in the dope trade, which means that Accardo's policy against narcotics went down the toilet. It seems that Carlisi also respected Accardo's judgement but it was obviously too late, hence Centracchio's younger brother Henry and his cocaine contacts down in Florida and also the DiFronzo-weed case. Sources stated that some of the guys allegedly couldnt wait for Aiuppa, Cerone and LaPietra to be removed from the scene by the government.


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Toodoped] #1101265
09/29/24 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Toodoped

During the 60's and 70's the Chicago Outfit was THE number one target of the federal government and so the top bosses were already satisfied with the income which they received from different rackets, meaning they didnt need to be involved in the dope trade which at the time was Sislowly becoming THE number one illegal racket, again in the eyes of law.
,
For decades, drugs were a profitable, but not huge, sideline for Mafia families. And, as long as the traffic was confined to ghetto areas, minorities, musicians and others society didn't care about, drugs only sporadically appeared on law enforcement/political radar. The explosion of drug use in the sixties and seventies ruined the lives of many young white kids--including sons and daughters of police, judges and politicians. Enforcement was stepped up, and sentences for trafficking moved well into the double digits. NY's "Rockefeller Law," which decrees life in prison with no parole for just possession of salable quantities of hard drugs is still on the books.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Turnbull] #1101267
09/29/24 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
Originally Posted by Toodoped

During the 60's and 70's the Chicago Outfit was THE number one target of the federal government and so the top bosses were already satisfied with the income which they received from different rackets, meaning they didnt need to be involved in the dope trade which at the time was Sislowly becoming THE number one illegal racket, again in the eyes of law.
,
For decades, drugs were a profitable, but not huge, sideline for Mafia families. And, as long as the traffic was confined to ghetto areas, minorities, musicians and others society didn't care about, drugs only sporadically appeared on law enforcement/political radar. The explosion of drug use in the sixties and seventies ruined the lives of many young white kids--including sons and daughters of police, judges and politicians. Enforcement was stepped up, and sentences for trafficking moved well into the double digits. NY's "Rockefeller Law," which decrees life in prison with no parole for just possession of salable quantities of hard drugs is still on the books.


I agree and believe it or not, that statement in the Godfather movie, which was made by one of the bosses during the commission meeting, was for real, meaning during the old days in Chicago they mainly sold the drugs around the black neighborhoods (especially the south side and southern suburbs) and also to the ordinary (blue collar) working man who had jobs in factories, meat plants etc. But as you already said, by the 1970s it developed into an epidemic, a situation which also largely contributed to the huge number of Outfit-related murders during that same bloody decade. When he got out of jail, even Galante himself had to visit some of the Outfit's "junk opposing" bosses regarding the problem.


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Liggio] #1101272
09/29/24 07:23 PM
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"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Hollander] #1101288
09/30/24 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollander


Is this an old book or a new re-release? I have to check my old collection because it sounds familiar...


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Liggio] #1101295
09/30/24 11:42 AM
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....in addition, another overlooked fact is that the old Jewish mob had poppy fields in Mexico since the late 1920s (especially the one in Chicago), an operation that perfectly fitted with their number one racket aka prostitution. The Guziks were so nasty that I dont want to even talk about it.


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Liggio] #1101298
09/30/24 12:06 PM
09/30/24 12:06 PM
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Drug dealing without bosses approval got Ronnie Jarrett killed in 1999.

Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: RushStreet] #1101301
09/30/24 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RushStreet
Drug dealing without bosses approval got Ronnie Jarrett killed in 1999.




Narcotics was probably the last thing on their minds during the late 90's and 2000's (I think the last narcotics case was in 1998). The Outfit always had a "different" vision than the rest of the fams


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Toodoped] #1101302
09/30/24 12:26 PM
09/30/24 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by RushStreet
Drug dealing without bosses approval got Ronnie Jarrett killed in 1999.




Narcotics was probably the last thing on their minds during the late 90's and 2000's (I think the last narcotics case was in 1998). The Outfit always had a "different" vision than the rest of the fams


True. Lots of it tied into him doing things his own way and dying by those decisions. Similar personality as Tony Spilotro.

Last edited by RushStreet; 09/30/24 12:35 PM.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: RushStreet] #1101303
09/30/24 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RushStreet
Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by RushStreet
Drug dealing without bosses approval got Ronnie Jarrett killed in 1999.




Narcotics was probably the last thing on their minds during the late 90's and 2000's (I think the last narcotics case was in 1998). The Outfit always had a "different" vision than the rest of the fams


True. Lots of it tied into him doing things his own way and dying by those decisions. Similar personality as Tony Spilotro.


Thats right and I agree but I think it depends mainly on the power that the individual or member had at the time, meaning Outfit capo Buccieri was constantly causing problems and besides being involved in the dope trade, he was also invading areas that belonged to the Lenny Patrick/Dave Yaras crew, or areas which belonged to Alderisio and even territories that were under the jurisdiction of Frank LaPorte, and nobody was able to do a thing mainly becase if they went against Buccieri and his "army of killers", the old Outfit's future wouldve been different by now.


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Toodoped] #1101306
09/30/24 02:45 PM
09/30/24 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by RushStreet
Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by RushStreet
Drug dealing without bosses approval got Ronnie Jarrett killed in 1999.




Narcotics was probably the last thing on their minds during the late 90's and 2000's (I think the last narcotics case was in 1998). The Outfit always had a "different" vision than the rest of the fams


True. Lots of it tied into him doing things his own way and dying by those decisions. Similar personality as Tony Spilotro.


Thats right and I agree but I think it depends mainly on the power that the individual or member had at the time, meaning Outfit capo Buccieri was constantly causing problems and besides being involved in the dope trade, he was also invading areas that belonged to the Lenny Patrick/Dave Yaras crew, or areas which belonged to Alderisio and even territories that were under the jurisdiction of Frank LaPorte, and nobody was able to do a thing mainly becase if they went against Buccieri and his "army of killers", the old Outfit's future wouldve been different by now.


Good points. Jarrett had too big of an ego for his own good.

Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Toodoped] #1101316
09/30/24 05:32 PM
09/30/24 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by Hollander


Is this an old book or a new re-release? I have to check my old collection because it sounds familiar...



You're right TD the book was published in 1972 I believe. There is also an updated version of 2003.

Formatted Contents Note
Introduction: A history of heroin ... Sicily : home of the Mafia
Marseille : America's heroin laboratory
Opium for the natives
Cold War opium boom
South Vietnam's heroin traffic
Hong Kong : Asia's heroin laboratory
The Golden Triangle
War on drugs
The CIA's covert wars.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: An overlooked fact on the Mafia & drugs [Re: Liggio] #1101384
10/01/24 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollander


You're right TD the book was published in 1972 I believe. There is also an updated version of 2003.

Formatted Contents Note
Introduction: A history of heroin ... Sicily : home of the Mafia
Marseille : America's heroin laboratory
Opium for the natives
Cold War opium boom
South Vietnam's heroin traffic
Hong Kong : Asia's heroin laboratory
The Golden Triangle
War on drugs
The CIA's covert wars.



Thanks again bud. I think I already have it on pdf in some of my old hard disks. What can I say, Im still old school lol


Originally Posted by RushStreet


Good points. Jarrett had too big of an ego for his own good.


Lots of Outfit guys made the same mistake but it must not surprise you because we are talking about killers over here, who had low IQ and almost no kind of reasonable doubts, and also had huge blind egos that obviously got them in a lot of trouble.


Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

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