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Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105689
11/22/24 06:58 AM
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Netanyahu is an elected official if he committed war crimes it's up to the Israelis themselves to prosecute not The Hague. Israel is (still) a democracy and has the right to defend herself. I personally do believe Netanyahu is fighting for himself not the country but to accuse him of war crimes or maybe even genocide is another thing and very difficult to proof.

Wilders to visit Netanyahu soon

PVV leader Wilders plans to visit Prime Minister Netanyahu in Israel in the short term. On X he says he is proud to meet "his friend Netanyahu" soon.

Yesterday, the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Netanyahu. The prosecutor wants to prosecute him and former Defense Minister Gallant for war crimes and crimes against humanity for their roles in the Gaza war.

Wilders is sharply critical of this. According to him, "the world has gone mad." He believes that Netanyahu should receive international support instead of being confronted with an arrest warrant.

Last edited by Hollander; 11/22/24 07:29 AM.

"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105691
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Dutch Foreign Affairs reports leak of documents to media
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is going to report the leaking of confidential documents. Yesterday, RTL Nieuws quoted from secret documents about the situation in the Gaza Strip. Dutch diplomats are said to describe the situation in Gaza as "unprecedented in terms of human suffering".

Minister Veldkamp called the documents "strictly confidential" this morning. "I take this extremely seriously. This undermines the effectiveness of Dutch diplomacy."

He also thinks it is a very selective leak, "resulting in very biased reporting". According to him, it means he can do less "to help alleviate the suffering in the Gaza Strip or help achieve a ceasefire".

The minister reacted furiously yesterday in a parliamentary debate to the leaking of the documents. He was also angry that his travel plans to Israel and the Palestinian territories had been leaked.

"I cannot function like this as Foreign Minister," he said


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Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105692
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Orbán says he will invite Netanyahu to Hungary
Hungarian Prime Minister Orbán has no intention of adhering to the agreements of the International Criminal Court (ICC). On state radio this morning, he announced that he will invite Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu to visit Hungary and that his counterpart will have nothing to fear.

"In the invitation, I will make it clear that the ICC order will have no effect in Hungary and that we will not comply with it," Orbán said. Hungary is a signatory to the Rome Statute that established the ICC and is therefore obliged to arrest Netanyahu if he is on Hungarian soil. But Orbán calls the arrest warrants against the Israeli prime minister and former defense minister Gallant wrong and refuses to cooperate.

If a country that has recognized the ICC does not cooperate in the execution of, for example, arrest warrants, the court can submit its findings to the annual meeting of participating countries. That meeting will discuss possible measures. This year's meeting will be in The Hague in a week and a half .

Orbán has had a good relationship with his Israeli counterpart for years. The last time Netanyahu visited Hungary was in 2017


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Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105699
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Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105730
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While the ICC found there was sufficient evidence for both arrest warrants, the alleged crimes are yet to be tested in court.

1. War crime of starvation as a method of warfare
2. Crime against humanity of murder (but not extermination)
3. Crime against humanity of other inhumane acts
4. Crime against humanity of persecution
5. War crime of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105731
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Doesn't help...

From: The Times of Israel October 9, 2023
Defense minister announces ‘complete siege’ of Gaza: No power, food or fuel
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant says he has ordered a “complete siege” of the Gaza Strip, as Israel fights the Hamas terror group.

“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” Gallant says following an assessment at the IDF Southern Command in Beersheba.

“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds.

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105732
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From: ABC News November 23, 2024

Luis Moreno Ocampo, former first prosecutor of the International Criminal Court:
the case put before the court was a "minimalistic one".

He said the judges did not analyse alleged genocide or bombing campaign.

"They focused on something that was very clear — which is starvation.
Because Mr Gallant ordered the blockade of the food and water at the beginning, from the beginning and it's very clear," he said.

"Basically, [the prosecution] said Israel is using starvation as a tool, as a weapon in the war. "That is absolutely prohibited, it is not possible. "So that why, legally it's very difficult to challenge this because it's very simple, very clear."

Meanwhile, he said trying to prove a genocide was taking place was more "complicated".
"To prove genocide the main issue is to prove intention.

"This is the chance, we have a chance now to transform a war into a criminal proceeding."

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105733
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Mr Ocampo said this also posed an issue for the United States as it must choose what it does.
"Legally, it's not controversial. Legally, it's clear. Politically, it's controversial," he said.

"But political actors are not a court. We are blessed that we have an international criminal court up and running, prosecuting Netanyahu, prosecuting whoever, friend or enemy, allegedly committing war crimes.

"So the problem is states have to adjust — because President Biden was always saying consistently, Israel should respect the international law. "Well, right now, the judges say it's clear, it's clear violation of international law, so now the US is tested.

"Is the US respecting international law when a friend is committing the crimes? That is a test."

Trump could have interesting policy here, because he's pragmatic," "He can use the ICC to transform the political situation

"I think it's a very interesting moment, to see how political actors like the US adjust and respect international law, when a friend, that is Israel, is now confronted with it."

How about Russia-Mongolia and United Nations
The double standards and hypocrisy of the UN and all these holier-than-thou righteous countries signaling they will abide by Israel's ICC arrest warrant when no one made such statements regarding Russia warrant

1. Mongolia an ICC member didn't arrest Putin when he visited
2. U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres travelled to Russia for the BRICS meeting with ICC war criminal Putin

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105736
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Australia
Originally Posted by Hollander
Extracts: Netanyahu is an elected official if he committed war crimes it's up to the Israelis themselves to prosecute not The Hague. Israel is (still) a democracy and has the right to defend herself.

ICC arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant
ABC News Australia by Middle East correspondent Eric Tlozek 22 November 2024

Extracts:
  • principle of complementarity
Benjamin Netanyahu has railed against the court, calling it an "enemy of humanity" and saying the decision is anti-Semitic, biased and morally bankrupt but he now has the questionable distinction of facing court both in his own country, for alleged bribery, fraud and breach of trust as well as in The Hague

Investigating and potentially prosecuting Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant domestically for their direction of the war in Gaza is one way for Israel to avoid further international isolation

Israel has long argued that as a democracy with an independent legal system, it is immune to ICC prosecution under something known as the principle of complementarity

Professor of International Law at the Australian National University, Donald Rothwell, told the ABC Australia
Quote
"It's acknowledged that if Israel was to radically change its position and demonstrate that it was legitimately conducting an investigation and that there is a real prospect of possible prosecutions, then obviously the ICC process would be halted"

But as there has been no investigation of these specific allegations within Israel — and the response to the arrest warrants from Israeli MPs across the political spectrum makes clear that there won't be — these two senior officials now join Russian President Vladimir Putin among the leaders wanted for trial at the ICC

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105737
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ICC arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant
ABC News Australia by Middle East correspondent Eric Tlozek 22 November 2024

Extracts:
  • An arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu may not change the war but it could affect Israel's allies
In many ways, the issuing of arrest warrants for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former defence minister Yoav Gallant for alleged crimes against humanity and war crimes is the realisation of Israel's worst fears about the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the reason it is not a state party

Both are unlikely to travel to one of the 125 countries now obligated to arrest them which include Australia, meaning the probability of an imminent trial is very low

  • Israel's allies
But the more immediate impact of the decision could be on Israel's allies, who now must consider whether their support for Israel is more important than their support of international institutions and treaties

Janina Dill, a professor of International Law at the University of Oxford says,
Quote
"It's quite important to stress that Benjamin Netanyahu makes decisions about how the war in Gaza unfolds, about humanitarian access, about the use of weapons there, that the conduct at the heart of the arrest warrant is persisting"
Quote
"That means that currently any state that diplomatically or materially supports Israel's war in Gaza risks supporting crimes against humanity and war crimes”
"It's really quite clear to me that third states should take this as a really relevant piece of information in deciding whether they put themselves in legal jeopardy in supporting Israel's war"

Israel's most critical ally, the United States, is not a party to the ICC either and may choose to take retributive steps against its members, with the Biden administration having already expressed willingness to work with Congress to impose sanctions against the court

US President Joe Biden issued a statement following the news saying,
Quote
the warrants for the Israeli leaders was "outrageous" and that "whatever the ICC might imply, there is no equivalence — none — between Israel and Hamas"

Despite those threats and enormous political pressure, the pre-trial chamber of the ICC has nevertheless substantiated, in stark legal terms, the significant concerns about Israel's response to the October 7, 2023 Hamas attacks

  • alleged war crimes
Chief among them was the lack of food, medicine and essential services

These are the main grounds that have been upheld by the pre-trial chamber and yet, nearly 14 months in to the war, these problems persist in parts of Gaza

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105738
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ICC arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant
ABC News Australia by Middle East correspondent Eric Tlozek 22 November 2024

Extracts:
  • Warrants one of several rulings against Israel
The issuing of warrants adds to a significant list of international decisions against Israel in the past year, including an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice that its ongoing occupation of the West Bank and Gaza was unlawful

The United Nations General Assembly has voted to endorse that decision and to grant further rights and privileges to the Palestinian delegation, something Israel had long resisted

The weight of international condemnation has been building for some time but is arguably yet to produce a major change in direction from the current Israeli government or from Israel's allies, who supply the weapons and diplomatic cover

  • Australia
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese had avoided speculating how his government would act when the warrant applications were made in May 2024

Foreign Minister Penny Wong refusing to oppose or endorse the International Criminal Court’s decision, only going as far as saying,
Quote
"Australia respects the independence of the ICC and its important role in upholding international law"

Even Hamas! welcomed the ICC's decision, despite the court announcing Hamas commander Mohammed Deif would also face charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity, including for extermination, torture and rape

Israel has said it killed Deif in an airstrike in July 2024 something Hamas has neither confirmed nor denied
The prosecution indicated it would continue to gather information with respect to his reported death

  • Palestinian response
Palestinians are responding with both vindication and resignation — they feel abandoned by the international community and wonder why such a move has taken so long and whether it will lead to any improvement

Gazan political analyst Muhammad Shehada, who works for the EuroMed Human Rights Monitor said,
Quote
"It's a huge moment of relief, feeling that we are heard and seen”
Quote
"It's also a moment of vindication that Palestinians have been warning the entirety of the world for decades that they are subjected to systematic war crimes and crimes against humanity"
"And on the other side, we've been faced with a huge campaign of delegitimisation, smears, accusations of anti-Semitism for merely complaining and describing our daily living situation”
Quote
”It's a vindicating moment for Palestinians to see that what we have been complaining about is the actual reality"

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105739
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How the ICC arrest warrant will (and won't) hurt Benjamin Netanyahu
SBS News Australia by Alexandra Koster 22 November 2024

Extracts:
  • ICC arrest warrants have been issued for Benjamin Netanyahu, Yoav Gallant and [Hamas terrorist] Ibrahim Al-Masri
Despite Netanyahu and Gallant now being wanted across 124 countries, experts say the move is still unlikely to lead to an arrest

Imogen Saunders, an associate professor at the Australian National University College of Law, says,
Quote
"it's unlikely the ICC's arrest warrants will have anyone in handcuffs"
Quote
"Netanyahu and Gallant will be safe from prosecution, as long as they don't travel to any of the 124 member countries of the ICC"
"So what that means for Benjamin Netanyahu is as long as he stays within Israel, Israel is the only country in the world that could actually arrest him and they're clearly not going to do that"
Quote
"It does curtail travel" "It does essentially put a limitation on freedom of movement"

  • ICC non-members
One of Israel's biggest allies, the US, does not recognise the authority of the ICC and has refused to become a member
China, India, Israel and Russia are also not ICC parties

As a result, they're under no duty to arrest Netanyahu, even if he did travel to their country

Saunders added,
Quote
"In some ways, they're in an easier position than Australia would be as Australia is a member"

  • ignominy
Saunders also said,
Quote
it's a "big milestone" in the history of the ICC as it's the first time an arrest warrant has been issued on a leader with such strong ties to the West

Only 2 previous sitting heads of government have had arrest warrants issued by the ICC — neither of which had strong ties to the West
1. Russian president Vladimir Putin
2. and former Sudanese president Omar al-Bashir

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Trojan] #1105740
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Haaretz November 23, 2024
Pro-Palestinian, anti-NATO protesters burn vehicles, smash windows in Montreal demonstration; 3 arrested

Three people were arrested after pro-Palestinian and anti-NATO protesters smashed windows, clashed with police, and set vehicles on fire during a Friday evening demonstration in Montreal.

The protest coincided with the arrival of around 300 delegates from NATO member states and partner countries attending a high-level summit, scheduled from November 22 to 25 to discuss Ukraine, climate change, and the alliance's future.

It also took place during the second day of widespread student-led pro-Palestinian protests across the city.

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Trojan] #1105741
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Originally Posted by Trojan
France
The Foreign Ministry’s spokesperson, Christophe Lemoine, said that France would act “in line with the ICC’s statutes”.

However, Lemoine declined to say whether France would arrest Netanyahu if he came to the country, saying it was “legally complex”.

France softened its response to the International Criminal Court's decision to issue arrest warrants for Israeli officials, emphasizing that the move formalizes accusations rather than delivering a ruling

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105742
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The Israeli army announced that it killed the Islamic Jihad's rocket unit commander, Khaled Abu Daka, in an airstrike in central Gaza.

An earlier announcement by the IDF and Shin bet said five Hamas members were killed in an Israeli airstrike in central Gaza

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105743
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John Spencer, U.S. Urban warfare expert:

November 22, 2024
Disgrace. ICC issuing warrants for Israeli leaders is a disgrace to the rule of law IMO.

I hope the U.S. sanctions the court quickly.
Lack of evidence, on the ground research. Only political weaponinization of international law against Israel.

May 15, 2024
Almost Everything We're Told About Gaza is Wrong
“Everything that the world has heard about Gaza has actually been counterfactual." It has been wrong.

What Israel has done to protect civilians, and despite what Hamas has wanted, has been an amazing achievement that I didn’t even, personally as an urban warfare scholar, think was possible.
 
He recently embedded with the IDF in Gaza and a firsthand witness to how they operated.

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105755
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No 10 indicates Netanyahu faces arrest if he enters UK

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjr4gvydxeno


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Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105820
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From: The Independent November 23, 2024
Donald Trump ally warns Keir Starmer the US will ‘crush’ the UK economy if it helps arrest Benjamin Netanyahu

A staunch ally of Donald Trump has warned Sir Keir Starmer that the UK will face severe economic consequences if it helps to arrest Benjamin Netanyahu.

US allies
Senator Lindsey Graham hit out at US allies warning they should not comply with the warrant for the Israeli leader issued by the ICC

Senator Lindsey Graham said the US should “crush” the economies of all those who comply with the warrant issued by the International Criminal Court (ICC).

In response, Mr Graham tweeted: “Any nation or organization that aids or abets this outrage should expect to meet firm resistance from the United States, and I look forward to working with President Trump, his team, and my colleagues in Congress to come up with a powerful response.”

The South Carolina senator later told Fox News: “If you are going to help the ICC as a nation and force the arrest warrant against Bibi and Gallant…I will put sanctions on you as a nation.

“You’re gonna have to pick the rogue ICC versus America.

I’m working with [another US senator] Tom Cotton to have legislation passed as soon as we can to sanction any country that aids and abets the arrest of any politician in Israel.

What they’re doing in Israel is trying to prevent a second Holocaust.
So, to any ally, Canada, Britain, Germany, France, if you try to help the ICC, we’re gonna sanction you.”

Asked what the penalty should be, he added: “We should crush your economy because we’re next…
Why can’t they go after Trump or any other American president?”

ICC move has provoked fury among Republicans in the US.

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105822
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US allies -- Don't forget Australia...
Ex-Israeli minister denied Australian visa

From: skynews.com.au November 23, 2024
Israel has expressed outrage at Australia's decision to deny a visa to its former justice minister Ayelet Shaked.

Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke confirmed the application had been rejected but failed to explain why.

Ms Shaked was reportedly barred under the belief she may vilify or incite discord in Australia.
Ms Shaked responded to the decision on X, calling the Australian government “antisemitic”.

"The issue here is not that I didn't get a visa.
The issue here is that the current Australian government has become antisemitic,” she said.

From: The Australian November 22, 2024
Shameful’: Ex-Israeli minister denied visa

Former Israeli government minister Ayelet Shaked has been denied a visa to come to Australia on character grounds in a fresh blow to the Albanese government’s ties with the Jewish state.

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From: The Sydney Morning Herald November 24, 2024
according to a keynote speech, Australian shadow home affairs spokesman James Paterson will deliver outlining the Coalition’s pledges,

Opposition Liberal frontbencher Paterson is incredulous about Australia’s decision to deny entry to Shaked, a former minister for justice who made headlines last year calling for -- not helpful...
1. all Gazans to be deported
2. and the southern city of Khan Younis turned into a soccer field

Israel’s foreign ministry on Friday night posted a statement describing the decision as “deeply offensive”.

“We will not – and I can’t believe I need to say this – ban former Israeli ministers from centrist governments from visiting Australia,” Paterson will say, according to a version of the speech provided to this masthead.

“Nor would we – and again I can’t believe this needs to be said – arrest the democratically elected head of a friendly government for the crime of defending his country. We will never abandon our ally in international forums like the United Nations.”

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105825
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Well said -- not caving-in, to faith based voting

From: The Sydney Morning Herald November 24, 2024
Coalition to throw Australia’s support behind Israel in campaign pledges

Portraying the bloody war in Gaza and Lebanon as a battle for democracy, Paterson will say Australian Jews were being held responsible for “difficult choices” Israel was forced to make in its fight against terror groups supported by Iran.

Opposition Liberal frontbencher Paterson will say that a Coalition government will strengthen the laws used by police to lay charges on incitement and displaying terror symbols if they prove too difficult to enforce.

“We will do this not only for the Jewish community but for our country.
Because a country that is not safe for Jews is not safe for anyone.”

The Coalition has sought to tie community unrest in Australia over Gaza to Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s actions, portraying him as soft on antisemitism as Labor has gradually shifted support away from Israel through key United Nations votes and actions such as blocking the visa of a former Israeli minister, Ayelet Shaked, on character grounds.

The opposition has refrained from criticising Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu’s military campaign even as the United Nations, European Union and International Criminal Court condemn his actions, marking the Coalition as one of the most pro-Israel centre-right parties in the Western world.

On Friday, the Coalition released a statement saying Australia should reject the ICC’s decision to issue arrest warrants for Netanyahu and his former defence minister Yoav Gallant

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From: euronews November 22, 2024
Brussels warns Orbán over Netanyahu visit: it's your duty to comply with ICC warrants

Hungary
Ignoring an arrest warrant by the ICC would breach international obligations and damage Hungary's reputation, Vera Jourová told Euronews.

The European Commission has issued a pointed warning to Viktor Orbán after the Hungarian Prime Minister announced he would invite his Israeli counterpart, Benjamin Netanyahu, and ignore the arrest warrant by the International Criminal Court (ICC).

Brushing off the order would breach international obligations and entail reputational damage, said Vera Jourová, one of the Commission's vice presidents.

Hungary, like all EU member states, is a party to the Rome Statue, the 1998 treaty that established the tasks and jurisdiction of the ICC. As of today, 125 states are party to the treaty. Some notable absences include Israel, the US, Russia, China and India.

Hungary, however, is not the only EU country that has cast doubt over the arrest warrant placed on Netayanhu.

Austria and the Czech Republic
Austria and the Czech Republic, two of Israel's staunchest supporters in the bloc, have also offered critical, albeit less defiant, reactions.

Germany
Germany, meanwhile, has sent mixed signals.

Annalena Baerbock, the foreign affairs minister, said the country would abide by the law "at the European level and internationally" but avoided going into "theoretical" scenarios.

Steffen Hebestreit, the chief spokesperson of the federal government, was more non-committal and told reporters: "I find it hard to imagine that we would make arrests on this basis."

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Reuters November 24, 2024
Gunman shot dead, 3 police injured, shooting near Israeli embassy in Jordan over, security source says

A gunman was shot dead and three policemen were injured after a shooting incident near the Israeli embassy in Jordan ended, a security source told Reuters on Sunday.

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Al Jazeera November 24, 2024
Heavy fighting ongoing for strategic Lebanese town

Hezbollah fighters and Israeli troops are engaged in running gun battles in the southern Lebanon town of Khiam.
The National News Agency (NNA) reports intense air and artillery bombardment of Khiam, 6km (4 miles) from the border.

Israel is “attempting to control the town” as it’s “a strategic gateway for a rapid ground incursion”, the NNA said.
Israeli troops dynamited houses and are “trying to surround [Khiam] from all sides using extensive air and ground cover”.

Over the past two days, Hezbollah said its fighters attacked Israeli soldiers about 20 times in and around the large town.
Israeli tanks have been operating east of Khiam for more than three weeks.

Khiam has symbolic significance.
It was the site of a notorious prison run by the South Lebanon Army, an Israeli proxy militia, during its 22-year occupation of southern Lebanon. Israeli forces withdrew from the region in 2000

The NNA said that, on the south coast, “the areas of al-Bayyaada and Wadi Hamool are witnessing violent clashes”.

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105868
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How is Hezbollah still fighting back?
Hezbollah proving a formidable foe against Israeli forces in Lebanon

The militant group has bounced back from major setbacks thanks to a flexible command structure, help from Iran and years of planning for an Israeli invasion.

Despite IDF claims of almost total destruction of its senior political and military leadership and the obliteration of dozens of arms stockpiles and military positions, Hezbollah’s own guns have not been silent.

Group still launching rockets, drones and now precision missiles deep into Israeli territory despite the near obliteration of its political and military leadership.

A number of these attacks have slipped beneath Israel’s lauded Iron Dome unchecked, killing Israeli soldiers and wounding dozens more. 

The group is believed to have roughly 50,000 fighters at its disposal – half of them reservists – and as many as 200,000 missiles, some striking targets deep into Israeli soil.

Re: Israel: 'State of war' [Re: Hollander] #1105905
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