More I read about it ( including Gotti tapes book) the more I believe that Gravano wanted and pushed for the murders of DiBernado, Milito and maybe Dibono.

From the wiretap it's clear that Gotti was of the mind that The Bull had bullshitted him into killing. Although Gotti had way to big an ego to fully admit that he'd been played for a dummy.

Who benefited from the killings, DiBernado was the main gambino link to the construction unions. Gravano took that position.
He said DiB was badmouthing the new admin, hard to believe from a guy who was intricately involved in the ' fist' plot . Plus he wasn't some street tough with a crew. More of a businessman.

Sammy just wanted what he had , maybe borrowed a load of money beforehand as well. In his book he said Ruggiero owed the money and pushed for it not him.

Easy to wind Gotti up as he was in jail whilst this was going on.


Milito was in jail when Sparks happened and Gravano hated him. By the time Milito gets out his enemy is now part of the admin.
Gravano reckons it was Frank Decicco who wanted to kill Milito for a reason that had everything to do with Gravano and nothing to do with Decicco.
Again Gravano comes out with the " he(
Milito) is bad mouthing us" line to Gotti.

No wonder Gotti's lawyers went with that line of reasoning at trial. Makes sense.

Also Gotti knew he'd been played, that's why he is on tape saying
" I knew what they were doing but I let them do it anyway".

I agree with that.

Gotti had several underbosses during his reign Frankie D, Joe Piney and Sammy The Bull.

No question that Gravano personally benefited from those murders.

How was Joe '"Piney" Armone as underboss?

Figurehead or did he wield some actual power in his own right?

I bet all the Gambino guys respected him since he goes back to the 1940's.

I would also add two things that helped him being an influent figure :

- He was very close to Joe N Gallo, the Consigliere. To the point that Joe N Gallo kind of used Piney Armone and his crew as a surrogate crew for himself. Joe N Gallo would use Piney's guys for his business but also when he needed enforcers. So somehow Piney was operating at an administration level.

- Piney was a Queens guy and had close relationship with the other Queens-based crews in the Gambino Family : the Fatico/Gotti crew and Fat Andy Ruggiano's crew. These were two working crews with a lot of key soldiers in the family.

The Armone brothers -- Joe, and his older brother Steve -- actually originated out of Lower Manhattan. Hence the nickname, "14th Street Steve"

Even the Fatico brothers, Ruggiano, and, later, the Gotti brothers didn't originally come from, or operate from Queens. Each of those families were born and bred in the East New York section of Brooklyn and in later years migrated out to South Queens, where most of them relocated the wives and children and eventually started doing their 'business' out that way.

Are you sure Piney was based in Queens? He used a pastry shop on the lower east side of Manhattan as his base of operations. I also would like to know how Tommy Agro became part of Joe Piney's crew... Anyone know ?

The Armones were not from Queens County. Like I mentioned, they originally came out of Lower Manhattan.

For instance, for years the Armone's (mom, dad, kids, etc.) resided at 227 E. 14th Street -- where the brothers also lived on and off over the years. And even after the brothers became adults, they always resided in the streets directly surrounding their parents apartment on E. 14th St.

Here's a few examples; in 1930, Joe Piney lived at 336 E. 13th Street. By 1936, he had relocated three blocks up, to 441 E. 15th Street. By 1943, he moved back down to 444 E. 12th Street.

His older brother Steve (who ran their crew) lived in the exact same area.

I always thought his crew operated in Queens but it's possible i'm mistaken.

any idea how Tommy Agro became associated with Piney?

Armone was uncle to Gambino crime family capo Joseph "Joey The Blonde" Giordano.
But growing up in Manhattan he was also close to the Genoveses.

Honesty, Lenox, I really don't know. Your guess is as good as mine.

I do know that Tommy came from the Downtown Brooklyn-Williamsburgh section of Brooklyn.

But exactly how he became affiliated with the Gambino crew, or whether he was first brought around by Joe Piney or was "placed with" him, I don't know.

NY Mafia
Tommy Agro definitely grew up in Williamsburg? Thats a fact? I also heard he grew up in Bushwick.

Yes, that's correct, Lenox. Because those three areas "touch" one another and somewhat overlap, certain streets, etc.

So yes, thats the general area where Agro grew up.

You heard or read that Gravano encouraged Di B's hit ??

Where was that ???

Mr. Dilorenzo

My name on this board is Ciment and not NY Mafia. If you have a beef against NY Mafia bring it up with him and leave me out of this.

Yours Truly

Ciment