jesus this conversation is getting pretty heated....relax people. try not to judge a movie thats still in production. and when you go to watch it...try and watch it for the point of escaping everyday life...not to judege it on every small point. honestly, your taking the fact that its a remake to seriously. gawd! who care!

and thats my rant.

Ya mr.soprano is right, and I apologize for the personal insult.

Speaking of which, wanna read a fun fluff story I found today about the movie?

"Leonardo DiCaprio got an unexpected greeting while shooting his upcoming movie The Departed recently, when an excited group of strippers hunted him down. The Titanic star, currently dating Brazilian supermodel Gisele Bundchen, is in Boston, Massachusetts, working on the movie alongside Jack Nicholson, Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon, and was stunned when a group of scantily-clad strippers came looking for him. Damon says, "We had one night where we were shooting all night next to a strip club. And there's just this point where we're driving to the set and like 20 girls in G-strings with dollar bills coming out were like, 'Where's Leonardo?' I'm like, 'Yes, my friend, this is my home. Welcome." "

Chill out people is only a movie. Scorcesse is going to make one sweet film. He has seldom failed us.

Yes, it's only a movie. Let's all go the pictures to escape from our lives, because our lives are not worth living in reality, but only in the exciting darkness of a cinema. Says the same person who probably watches a pirate DVD on a home TV screen.

It's a matter of artistic principle. Movies aren't just for escaping our lives. If they were, I wouldn't be found anywhere near them.

But perhaps a rant on artistic principle is wasted here.

Mick

No I think it's fine to appreciate the artistic aspects of a movie. However, when some (not you Capo) look down their noses when some just do want to escape and don't appreciate or look for the artisitc aspects, that's where some (at least me) have a problem with it. You have your opinion but you don't attack people and accept their position, which I thank you for

movies arent made for escapism? oh im sorry, i guess evertime a director says that he aims to entertain someone, to get them to escape the rigors of everyday life...he must be on some sort of crack. and artistic principle? this must obviousy be comeing from an artist who is on a high level then marty, or copolla...etc. if i was to always worry about other people worrying about movies iw ouldnt have seen man great movies. seven years ago...who would have thought spike jonz could be artistic...im sure not you...and if i was to follow people like you id have missed out on a great movie called being john malkovich. my friend...lighten up. stop pretending that you understand more about movies then the rest of us...because im sure your artistice vision isnt any better then ours...and isnt even one thenth of martys. probably not any better then a micheal bay. thank you very much.

Hey you will never find a pirate movie in my house if a movie is good enough for me to own then I will buy it so that the people who made it can get a piece, so that they can afford to make more like it.

You can talk down to me all you want, film is art, film is art -man everything is art if you want to appreciate it. Sex can be an art. How about this; do you like comic books Capo? What are your feelings on something like Preacher vs. something like Rising Stars or X-Men?
To a bomber the bomb is art, but some people just make them to blow shit up-which is right? (Note by bomb - I'm not talking about The Island)

Don't get me wrong, I am a film is art person but I just look at it differently than you do apparently. Art is something that can be enjoyed on many levels; you are outright dismissing one of the levels. When I look at a movie I see the lighting scheme and camera angle, I also see story structure and performance, I also see the gloss and style. I'm not saying that I have a better understanding of film than you (I don't) I'm just saying I'm looking at even the most superficial of aspects. Movies are entertainment too, it just seems like you are missing the simple joy of the cinema to me. (not that you don’t enjoy films but that you seem overly analytical)

Of course film can be for entertainment. My favorites list is based on what I ENJOY opposed to what I think is great. I didn't enjoy Le Grande Illusion on an entertainment scale, but it was an excellent film.

I'm not gonna say a movie is good if it is just a simple, unoriginal movie. Man on Fire, a movie that entertains me a lot. I rate it one star, why? Because it's an unoriginal, poorly made film filled with cliches and a butchered ending. That's on a rating scale. If I rated films on my entertainment, most films would be high on ratings.

Soprano, I couldn't understand half of your post, the second half was weak.

Uh, no. I haven't seen that film, but I saw another Kaufman written film called Eternal Sunshine for the Spotless Mind, which is the best of 2004. You obviously know nothing about us to say you wouldn't be recommended that film. You're taking an opinion on remakes and creating things new things.

It's not pretend, it's called DISCUSSING OUR OPINIONS. Sorry, no really, sorry. I'll shut up. I'll never discuss my views on film again because I'm obviously wrong and you are right. It's wrong for people to be disappointed that Scorsese is remaking a film, because we know nothing. I mean, I'll never mention film as an art ever again, because I must be pretending! Try again.

I don't think there's a decent comment to this humorous quote.

To perhaps elaborate further without rambling, I'm going to quote somebody who says it better than me.

"Perhaps they are; but we might remind ourselves that criticism is as inevitable as breathing, and that we should be none the worse for articulating what passes in our minds when we read a book and feel an emotion about it, for criticizing our own minds in their work of criticism."
- T. S. Eliot, Traditional and the Individual Talent

Hollywood Hagan, an old member on this board and a student of film, once warned me in a PM not to study film as an academic discipline, as such analytical theory takes the enjoyment out of the films.

Bollocks. I adore film, I adore art, and take pleasure in the many debates that crop up on here about the nature of art itself. I must admit though, with all due respect, that some people's arguments are quite primitive, when they lower themselves into denouncing my artistic vision to be lower than that of Michael Bay. Or even Martin Scorsese. Scorsese's made more films than me. More people have seen his films. He's been more successful than me. He's probably happier than me, as an artist. It doesn't mean he's a better artist.

And yes, it is about artistic principle. I was asking myself the other day whether I'm a hypocrite on this, because ever since I read John Fowles' The Magus, I've wanted to (if and when I get financial backing) adapt it to film. There's already a film of it, though, made in 1968, starring Michael Caine and Anthony Quinn, which, I've heard, does not do the novel justice. At two hours, I can understand why (if you've read the book, you will too). Anyway, in wanting to adapt this novel, I want to create something deeply personal to me, to evolve my own artistic vision and see, even, my own artistic limits.

My goal in life is to become content with my flaws, to even become content with the flaws of humanity and those around me. I can only do that by exploring my own mind through art. Science won't do it, religion won't do it. Even art might not, but it's art I love, and to which I give myself decidedly. Films in particular, since they (can) combines the narrative of prose, the allegories and symbolism of poetry and the visual awe of paintings, is what I want to make.

Suspect, I'm not a fan of comic books. That is to say, I don't read them. But I appreciate their cultural significance and place in popular culture.

I shall leave you all with two quotes, form which you can gather what you like.

"If you a real artist, your whole being goes into your art. Anything less than that, then you are not an artist."
- John Fowles' The Collector

"...criticism is as inevitable as breathing."
- T. S. Eliot

Thanks for reading,
Thanks for a fascinating debate,
Mick

And, for the record, I love Being John Malkovich (1999). It's a highly inventive fantasy delivered with extreme charm, though it inevitably loses itself in its own out-of-this-world plot near the climax.

Mick