If this were an American group, while I in all likelyhood I would disagree with them for my own reasons, I would agree that as tax paying Americans they have the right to speak out against the policies of the country that they support and live in. And I'll repeat what I pointed out earlier; A foreigner who comes to this country to make money, work the system and then returns to his home country does NOT, IMO have the right to talk any trash against this country, it's people or it's government. Yes, a foreigner living in another country surely has the right to their opinions and veiws of another country. But when a foreigner makes his money from this country, because the blood of OUR people afforded them the oportunity to come here and make a living, and then leaves with all that money and doesn't contribute back into our system, they have NO right to an opinion here!

Lets face facts here, what other country in the world extends the opportunity to ALL races, religions and backgrounds to come and make a new life as America and Great Britain have throughout the years? How many countries in the world do you know of that will open their arms to foreigners around the world and provide aid, educational assistance and assisted living as this country has?

Why is it that Great Britain and AMerica have the largest immigration and boarder problems than any other country in the world?

Because the people from around the world know what opportunities await them in this country, and that is why they are breaking down the doors to get in here.

So I do not respect any foreigner or immigrant that comes here to find their pot of gold, find it, run back home and then bash the place that gave them their pot of gold.


Don Cardi

What constitutes an American?

North American or South American?

So this means you don't believe in free speech for other people that are un-American if they're criticizng our government? Does this mean you're against a person living in France criticizing our government? Someone in Britain? Someone in Iran? Isn't the reason that you all support this stupid war so that we 'give the Iraqi people freedom?' How much freedom do you want to give them? Is an Iraqi allowed to criticize our government?

Patrick, go back and read very carefully the reply that I made to TIS. Read what I wrote closely and you will see that I've already addressed the question ( several times actually ) that you pose above. It clearly explains my opinion as to when and what type of foreigner that I object to bashing our government.


Don Cardi

DC with all respect, I think you are still confusing criticism of "our government" with criticisms of individuals whom someone believes to be a "hypocrite" or of specific policies the government is pursuing.

Opposition to the "neocon" point of view and calling nobody in particular hypocrites (I guess because they call themselves Christians) is not a cirticism of our government or of our country, but it is of a specific policy.

For arguments sake lets say you were in Sweden. I am sure you, like I, would be too polite to go over there and start telling them what is wrong with their system; however I think you would be free to say that you do no agree with people over there paying income tax of 90%, and that their cradle to grave socialism could end up hurting them in the long run. You would not be bashing Sweden or its people or even its democratic form of government. You would merely be stating an opinion on their policies.

OK DonT, let's use your Sweden scenario. I go there as an American, they welcome me into their country with open arms. I make all kinds of money in Sweden, and then when I'm rich I tell them that they are all a bunch of hypoocrite neo-nazis who are full of shit. Is that the way I should act towards a country that accepted me with open arms and afforded me the lifestyle that I live?

We'll go one better. I come to live in your house. You provide me with food, a room and help me start a business. As my business grows you support my business financially and let me live in your home. When I am rich enough I turn around and tell you that you are a hypocritical liberal guy who is full of shit because I don't like the way that you run your household. How would you feel after giving me both finacial and moral support to help me rise to fame and riches?

In my opinion it's the same principal.


Don Cardi

Calm down Don Cardi.....trust me, extra stress is never good for one's health.

Anyway, if you go and look back at what I've said previously, you know that I understand you, but also that I know that I'm right and really, any analogy of yours can't make me tone down my opinion. :p

I am calm, believe me. There are more important things going on in this world then the Rolling Stones making a controversial song. :rolleyes: I just enjoy the art of the debate, that's all. Maybe one day you'll understand that people can debate without getting worked up towards each other or personal about it. I concern myself emotionally with the real issues in life that affect my family and I. So don't get yourself too excited Ronnie, I am not getting worked up over this in the least. Sorry to dissapoint you.

The person who thinks that he is always right and knows everything and refuses to keep an open mind to hear out what another has to say is a sad person in my eyes. Because that person will never make substantial advances in their life.




Don Cardi

How very true, DC. Half the fun of dicussing anything with someone is that you may learn something new. If you don't approach a topic with an open mind, you might as well just keep your mouth shut and your thoughts to yourself.

Sicilain Babe, that is so on the money. I've learned many things in my life through discussions with others who've had a different point of view than I had. I really believe that it's a large part of self education. If you are a narrow minded person who really believes that your way is the only way, and you just poke fun at others who have different ideas than you do, then you will NEVER become an educated person in life.


Don Cardi

That Old saying is true "you learn something new everyday"

Wow what a surprise, musicians say something controversial right before they are supposed to go on tour. Shocker! :rolleyes:

Does anyone over the age of 16 really make their political opinions based on what musicians, artists, or actors say anyway?

Good point Krlea. It's one thing to agree or disagree or with any celebrity politically, but it's hard to believe that any adult would base his/her politics solely on the word a celebrity. It's just that they have the "access" to the media, and we don't, so they can get their opinions out very easily.

TIS

Btw, how's the twins? You feeling ok?

You know, I think the John Lennon bandwagon died out after Vietnam. At least John actually knew what he was talking about half the time.

The Stones are a great band, and can sing whatever they want. I could honestly care less, because their message really doesn't matter in the long run. I still enjoy "Fortunate Son" by CCR, does that make me a hypocrite? I don't know.

What I do know is that, again, it seems like liberals are jumping on this bandwagon of how a big star speaks out and it turns into how they are finally "sticking" it to conservatives. I could honestly care less about the Stones *new* music, or Jane Fonda's crisco-powered tour bus, or the Dixie Chicks.

We have the greatest power when it comes to being a consumer. You can turn off the radio, and not buy their CD. That's all. I'm not going to get too worried about it.

Besides, I would have to question anything Keith Richards writes since he has minimal brain fuction, seriously. He looks like he's been taking heroin for the last 60 years, and can't go a minute without a cigarrette. I honestly can say that when the Stones came to Buffalo in '97, it was a surprise that he could actually remember the proper lyrics/chords, since he always looks so stoned out.

that's so true. He looks awful! How old is he? 85? I don't like Mick Jagger as well. Ok, I must tell I am not a Stones fan, actually. Never was. They look far too sex&drug&rock&roll-ish to appeal to me! In fact their only hit I really like is Angie , that is the least transgressive RS's song, I guess.

Thanks for asking! I'm actually on bedrest now (yes again, ha ha). I'm 31 weeks along and the twins tried to come alittle early last week. That is normal with twins though. I feel HUGE, get heartburn very badly, still get morning sickness, and can't sleep because of the medication they have me on...but I've never been happier awaiting our two babies. I truly feel blessed. As long as the twins are healthy then I'm on cloud 9.

Krlea is absolutely correct. I never cared about what a musician or an actor or a celebrity says in terms of politics...I care about their movies and TV work, but thats about it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don Cardi:
[QB] OK DonT, let's use your Sweden scenario. I go there as an American, they welcome me into their country with open arms. I make all kinds of money in Sweden, and then when I'm rich I tell them that they are all a bunch of hypoocrite neo-nazis who are full of shit. Is that the way I should act towards a country that accepted me with open arms and afforded me the lifestyle that I live?

Well I would say that if you are living there and you are making a lot of money, and contrributing to their society, you would have every right to complain about certain things. For instance, if you had a business and you wanted to expand it, you may well say "I can't afford to prosper here because your tax system inhibits growth, and worse, if I get too big, the State might take me over." Was when some social democrat bureaucrat retorts that their system is designed for the greater good, you could well be able to say that he is being hipocritical because without a bunch of unnecessary social programs he would be out of a job, and that the greater good would be better served by a more business friendly policy. It would simply be your stating your point of view, and I think you would be well within your rights to say it. That said, the Swedish guy would then have every right in the world to say to you "Look if you dont like it here go back to where you came from."

We'll go one better. I come to live in your house. You provide me with food, a room and help me start a business. As my business grows you support my business financially and let me live in your home. When I am rich enough I turn around and tell you that you are a hypocritical liberal guy who is full of shit because I don't like the way that you run your household. How would you feel after giving me both finacial and moral support to help me rise to fame and riches?

This analogy doesnt make as much sense as the first. If I tok you in and did all those things, but all the while was lordiing it over you, and even making you listen to Al Franken every day in order to get your food. If after you became successful I was going around telling everyone how wonderful I was and how you would be nothing without me, you would have every right to call me a hippocrite.

The Stones kicked off their concert tour yesterday. Referred to as "the aging rockers", I found it amusing that one article says that it was probably appropriate to start off with "Start Me Up."

Anyway, as if there isn't enough bickering here, I know you've all been dying to see the complete lyrics. Here ya go.


Below are the complete lyrics to the song, "Sweet Neo Con," by the Rolling Stones:

"You ride around your white castle,
On your little white horse
You lie to your people,
and blame it on your war of course

You call yourself a Christian,
I call you a hypocrite
You call yourself a patriot,
well I think you're full of shit

Oh, sweet Neo Con,
What path have you led them on?
Oh, sweet Neo Con,
Is it time for the atom bomb?

You parade around in costume,
Expecting to be believed
But as the body bags stack up,
We believe we've been deceived

The horror you've unleased,
Will backfire with more grief
When will you ever learn,
Sweet Neo Con, as the world burns?

Oh, sweet Neo Con,
What path have you led them on?
Oh, sweet Neo Con,
Is it time for the atom bomb?
Oh, sweet Neo Con,
What path have you led them on?
Oh, sweet Neo Con,
Is it time to drop the bomb?"


TIS

I'm politicaslly in tune with these lyrics, but there will be no mistaking them from something written by Dylan.

Someone must've been holding Keith Richards' hand when penning that beauty. I cannot believe he has brain function above a flatline, let alone the ability to rhyme. If if wasn't for the fact that he's got the chords ingrained in his brain, he would be a vegetable.

Hey you are talking about the father of the greatest pirate who ever lived!

Bah. Keith Richards single-handedly keeps the Lucky Strike company in business. :p

Hey, don't pick on Keith. He's my favorite Zombie!! He looked 65 even at 25.


TIS

Reminds me of Robin Williams' Broadway stand-up show a few years back.

"I know there's a cure for bio terrorism or whatever it is, and I know it lies within Keith Richards. He is the only man on the planet who can go "Anthrax? [sniff].....All riiiight! Does this go great with my coat-ah fuck..." Keith is the only man who can make the Osbournes look fucking Amish. Because I know that one day we can all be dead and gone....Keith will still be there with a few cockroaches going "You know I smoked your uncle once, did you know that? Fuck-ing crazy."

I dunno. Robert Plant comes in as a close #2.

Keith Richards beats Michael Jackson as the best zombie? When the fuck did that happen?!

"I think I smoked your uncle". LMAO

Keith is a poster boy for burn-out syndrome. Michael looks freaky and unreal. Actually I'd hate to bump into either of them in a dark alley. They'd both scare the sh*t out of me.


TIS

Come on, who's a better sex machine then these studs?

Nah. Keith Richards would be out of breath if he tried to run after you because his lungs are shot.

And Michael Jackson is only a sexual deviant when it comes to children, so fear not gorgeous women of the BB.