One Nation Under GOD.

:p

(couldn't resist, sorry )


Don Cardi

How do you know that they accept homosexuals?

And as far as accepting people from other religions, being a Roman Catholic High School don't they require that anyone attending the school, no matter what religious background that they come from, receive the sacrament of Confirmation in order to be allowed to attend the school?


Don Cardi

I don't mind you agreeing with me, as long as you fully understand my position.

I believe that the government interferes far too much in our private lives. Porn, abortion, religion, same-sex marriage, etc. are other examples of the government's attempt to (and excuse me for using the term very loosly here to encompass many things) "legislate morality."

You, on the other hand (and please correct me if I'm wrong) seem to believe that the government should have more, rather than less, control over what we do with our private lives. In addition to the above (Altho I will confess to having no recollection of your stance on pornography), therr is your opinion of the Patriot Act, which IMO abridges some of our freedoms of privacy in the name of the "War on Terror."

Just to clarify things here.....I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea as to why we agree. :p

Yea. Because the idea of you and DJ as bedfellows is, well, just plain creepy. :p

Like others have stated since this is a private school they have the right to do as they see fit. Whether or not we agree/don't agree with it.

Something is wrong here. I have been agreeing with Plaw on some issues lately like this one. As far as renting an apartment goes I have a house in VA my daughter and she has a roomate that rents it from me. I put in the lease that I don't want smoking in my house for various reasons. If they want to smoke on the front porch or on the deck in the back that is fine. My RIGHT as a property owner to do so.

Yes, Mig, you have a clause in the lease that says limiting them to where they can smoke. I wouldn't have a problem with that. But do you have a rental policy that says that certain people can't live in the house? That's the difference. Perhaps this school could have a rule that says this girl can attend classes, but only if she's willing to sit outside?

HAHAHA

Hmmm. Very interesting.

I personally think that there is a lot more involved in this than is actually being told. So it is still hard for me to give an opinion on this situation itself either way. But I am a bit confused with some of the arguements that have been presented here by some people.

You say that the government has to solve a situation where a Catholic School, that teaches certain standards and morals, which are based on Christain Biblical teachings, has denied a girl an education in that school because her parents are gay. So in your opinion it is ok for the government to step in and interfere with the church here.

Yet, when people here argued that the words Under God should remain in the pledge, many of you used the Seperation of Church and State arguement.

So let me understand this now. If the religious faction within this country feel that UNDER GOD should remain in the Pledge, asccording to some of you they are wrong because our laws call for seperation of Church and State. That religion and government should not mix. A Fair and valid arguement.

But now that a private religious school has denied an education to a girl because her upbringing does not conform to their religious teaching, several of you who screamed about seperation of church and state now call for state government to come in and intercede on her behalf? The same state government that falls under the law of seperation of church and state?


Don Cardi

How do you know that they accept homosexuals?

And as far as accepting people from other religions, being a Roman Catholic High School don't they require that anyone attending the school, no matter what religious background that they come from, receive the sacrament of Confirmation in order to be allowed to attend the school?


Don Cardi [/b][/quote]You don't have to be anything to enter a Catholic school. Of course Satanism would probably be refused but otherwise, there are Muslims, Jews, and gay people in my school. The school does something referred to as GOD'S WILL in accepting everyone despite their affiliation. Free will is everyone's gift, whatever they do with it is up to God as far as I'm concerned.

I should also distinguish between real Catholics and the attention whore Jerry Falwell types. Priests have told me that any religion will go to heaven, depending on how their life is lived. Of course someone raised a Jew or Muslim has that heavy influence.

I agree with quote Holiness is in right action... not in the sense you have to be religious, but as long as you follow any religion that doesn't involve bad things like murder or other crimes. Or you can just be a simple atheist who lives a good life

I'm a bit tired to go through two pages of comments, but in regards to the actual article, this is absolutely ridiciulous. Personally, I think it falls under selective persecution, and it's unconstitutional.

The government has the right to interfere with the Church.
A Catholic school has to teach true Christian morals, based on the words of Jesus and God, not based on some crappy discriminating conservative 'rules' that the corrupt Catholic Church established centuries later.

Jesus was an exceptional man (understatement of the month), and one of his most important statements was that all people are equal, that he loved all people, and that we also have to do that.

If one says: "I'm a true Christian and thus against homosexuality" than he is just wrong.
Jesus Christ wasn't against 4% of all people.
It's something the Catholic Church established later.
So again my question: Do you believe in God and Jesus? Or in the corrupt, very conservative, Catholic Church, that kept mum the European people for ages, forbidding things like science and being progressive.

Btw, what if there are gays and lesbians that are very religious? They are forbidden to go to a Catholic school? I thought Catholicism was there for all Christians?

And what bothers me the most in all this: It isn't the girl that is gay, the parents are. Even more stupid to ban the girl for that.

And what about Protestant(ism) schools, do they work the same way?

IMO, the Separation of Church and State, is more to protect democracy and the State against religious influence (extremismes.
And altough the State isn't interceding in the Church itself, I believe the State can intercede in a school, if that school discriminates an innocent girl for no reason. I said 'no reason' because
1. HER PARENTS are gay, she's not.
2. I've already said what I think about the Church being against homosexuality.

Looking at this as a religious issue and/or a separation of church and state issue is way too narrow a way to look at it, IMO.

To me, this is about whether or not a private school should have the right to develop their own ctiteria for accepting or denying admission to a student.

Religion isn't, or shouldn't, be the issue.

Suppose it was a school for the blind, and a kid who isn't blind wants to go there and is denied admission. Isn't that kid being discriminated against because he isn't blind?

Should a Catholic school have the right not to admit non-Catholics? Should a yeshiva have the right to deny admission to a gentile?

Wouldn't that be discrimination based on religion.

There are schoold for all boys and schools for all girls. Aren't they discriminating on the basis of sex?

Suppose a 45 year-old adult who never finished high school decides he wants to finish, applies to a private school, and is denied admission because of his age?

Wouldn't that be discrimination based on his age?

I bring up those examples because discrimination based on religion, gender, or age is illegal.

If the school had a valid reason to expell he girl (if she stole, or vandalized, ...) then that's okay for me.
But the school makes religion the issue. So I threat the subject on a religous way.

Non-blinds don't belong in a school for blinds.
Non-catholics don't belong in a school for Catholics.
The girl is catholic, so why can't she stay?
Once again, her parents are gay, she's not.
Second, gays can also be Catholic, and should therefore not be kicked out of a Catholic school. Cause Jesus and God, who provided the Catholic School's morals, aren't against gays, as I said before.

Yes.

So very true!

The school should either have the right to set their own criteria in any way they wish, or not have that right.

That's a much larger issue than one based solely on religion.

I don't really care if they kicked the kid out because because her parents are lesbians, or if they kicked her out because she was Polynesian and the school had a "No Polynesians Allowed" policy.

Does the school have the right to set their own standards, religious or otherwise?

And who should decided what those standards are when they are made by a religious based private school?
Certainly not the government.


Don Cardi

Yes God and Christ loves everyone BUT they hate the sin.

This is where I disagree. How could the Christian be wrong where the Bible say's it is a sin? "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22).

Certainly not anyone but the school. In cases which involve religion or don't. The school is a private business. That it is probably owned buy the Catholic Church mkaes no difference.

It could be owned by you or I, and we could have the same "No Kids of Lesbian Parents Allowed" policy, and I'd Still feel the same way.

The government should not be telling private businesses how to operate.

Now, if you want to say that at least you might be able to build a case for government interference in a business not owned by the church, but since this is not only a private business but, in effect, a religious institution, that that's all the more reason to prohibit government interference, I wouldn't disagree with you.

Yes. They have that right. I see your point very clear.

But only real, (factbased) reasons are valid. If they want to be a Catholic school, then they have the right to exclude those who don't belong do the label the school gives itself, in this case "Catholic". Catholicism means they believe in God and Jesus.
And once again
1. Jesus wasn't against gays
2. The parents are gay, she isn't.
Calling it a hypocrite catholic school should be better.

The government doesn't have the right to interfere if the girl said she isn't catholic/doesn't believe in God.
The government has the right to interfere if the girl is punished for something her parents did.

Plaw, if your son (don't know if you have one) murders someone, then you don't have to go to prison?
Then why the girl?

But wait a moment .... This isn't true!!! Too ridiculous to be true!
It's a 'Neal Pulcawer' again. Damn, you got me here guys. :rolleyes:

Can you translate this to real English?
Thanks.

But I don't agree with you on 'being gay is a sin'. If the Bibel says it, then the Bible is wrong on this subject,and this subject only.

And; Jesus: "All men and women are equal, and I and the almighty father love them all" (Some book 15:8)

Enzo, without getting into a religious debate, I think that you are missing the point here.


God loves the sinner, but hates the sin.

God loves the homosexual, but hates the act itself of homosexuality.

God loves the thief, but hates the act of thievery.

Now how the church or that school feels about that girls mother and how they chose to handle it is a whole different issue.


Don Cardi

Ok, after reading all these posts and opinions about this issue, here is what I think;

I am appalled at the hypocrisy that this religious organization exhibited in a matter like this one. They teach that we should not judge others by what they do or by their lifestyles, but yet they expell a girl because of her mothers sexual preference.

They should WANT this girl to learn their religious teachings EVEN MORE because she has a mother who lives a lifestyle that they deem sinful.

While I feel that they are being hypocrites by expelling this girl because her mother is a sinner in their eyes, I am mindfull of the fact that when it comes to something like a private school or private organization being able to set their own rules, the government has absolutely no business getting involved. We as a people cannot allow that to ever happen regardless of if we agree with how the issue at hand was handled, or not.

My personal feelings is that the school was morally wrong to expel the girl. However it is a private school and being a private school they have the right to implement rules that they feel are in comliance with their teachings, if we agree with them or not. But the government should never have the right to interfere and tell them what rules they must or should not implement in regards to being in compliance with what their religious teaching are.


Don Cardi

Translate to English ok you got it. BEING GAY IS A SIN!!!

I think I'm gonna be sick. How can you say that the Holy Bible is wrong?

No really, can you translate that one sentence in real English, the words that are there?

Of course I can say the Bible is wrong. The Bible consists of many books, none of which were written by Jesus. They were written by religious people in the first century, followers of Jesus, and others. They may be religious, but they could be wrong about somethings, just as you can be wrong about things.

Maybe being gay is a sin when you mean sin as 'wrong in the eyes of the Bible and the Catholic Church', I don't believe it's a sin when you definate sin as 'wrong'.

Because if I would be religious, I'd believe in Jesus/God, not in the Church.

How do you know that?
This is not an arrogant question, just a ... question-question.

Enzo, how can you quote the bible for what YOU want to agree with and then in the same breath say it is wrong on a subject that you don't agree with? If you believe in the bible, then you believe in it as a whole and not just believe in what is convenient for what suits you.

You've accused the catholic church of being hypocritical based on the fact that you feel that they do not adhere to what the bible teaches, and yet in theory you are doing the same thing.

A person who picks apart what they choose or choose not to believe from the bible is the same as the muslim extremist who picks and chooses those verses from the koran, or the klu klux klansman who picks and chooses those verses from the bible that suit their justification for killing people.

No different.

You either accept what your religion's book teaches on a whole or you don't accept what it says at all. Regardless of whatever a person's religion may be.


Don Cardi

I agree with DC

Enzo you are right that Jesus did not write the Holy Bible. But it was written by men by the inspiration of God.

How else can I say that the act of homosexuality is sin? God says it is so. BTW I am not a Catholic. And the Catholic church is not the only church who feels this way.

Just curious, Mig....

You've expressed the view that the school has the right to set their own standards.

I'm wondering if you think that the school was correct in this case in exercising that right by expelling the girl.

And yes you are right that I believe the private school has the right to set the guidelines for the school they see fit as you do to correct? But to answer your question why bother to have the rules if they are not going to enforce them. I feel very sorry for this child.

I'd agree with that, generally speaking.

So let me put it another way: Do you think the school should even have such a rule, prohibiting the parent of a student to be living with someone out of wedlock, or engaged in homosexual relationship?

("School policy requires that at least one parent may not engage in practices "immoral or inconsistent with a positive Christian life style, such as cohabitating without marriage or in a homosexual relationship" ").

Would you have such a rule if you were the superintendent and making the rules?