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Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136394
11/22/05 08:24 AM
11/22/05 08:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
OP
RIP StatMan
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OP
RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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From today's New York Post
November 22, 2005 -- A pregnant and unmarried former pre-kindergarten teacher yesterday accused the Diocese of Brooklyn and the Queens elementary school where she worked of wrongfully firing her for having sex out of wedlock and choosing to keep her baby.
Michelle McCusker, 26, who is 18 weeks pregnant, was fired last month from St. Rose of Lima School in Rockaway Beach for violating "the tenets of Catholic morality," according to her termination letter signed by the principal.
"When a situation becomes evident that a teacher's life can not [sic] witness what the Catholic Church teaches, then termination of contract must occur," Principal Theresa Andersen wrote.
McCusker and the New York Civil Liberties Union filed a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission yesterday charging that the diocese and school broke a 27-year-old federal law banning pregnancy discrimination.
"I don't understand how a religion that prides itself on being forgiving and on valuing life could terminate me because I'm pregnant and am choosing to have this baby," a sobbing McCusker said at a press conference at the NYCLU offices.
The charge comes as the Brooklyn Diocese is still recovering from accusations that its former bishop, Thomas Daily, quietly moved priests accused of sexually abusing children from parish to parish instead of banishing them.
McCusker signed a one-year contract for about $30,000 with the school in September and agreed to the terms of a personnel handbook "to teach and act according to the precepts and doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church," which forbid premarital sex.
But her lawyers argue that the school and church held McCusker to its policy of prohibiting sex outside marriage only after she became pregnant, thereby enforcing the policy in a way that disproportionately affects women and is illegal.
"The school used her pregnancy as a marker," said NYCLU lawyer Cassandra Stubbs. "How do they determine if male employees engage in premarital sex?"
The school and its parish church referred press inquiries to the diocese. Diocese spokesman Frank DeRosa said in a statement, "This is a difficult situation for every person involved, but the school had no choice but to follow the principles contained in the teachers personnel handbook."
McCusker said that like many women whose pregnancies are in the first trimester, she said nothing of her condition to her principal when she was hired. She told the principal last month, as her pregnancy approached three months.
"I didn't think they could fire me," said McCusker, who informed the principal she was not planning to marry the father of her baby. "I held the Catholic religion to a higher standard."
She said she's now subbing at public schools to make ends meet.
david.andreatta@nypost.com ---------------
This story is quite similar to the recent one in which a girl was expelled from a religious school because her parents were lesbians.
Sad as it may be, in my opinion since this is a private school, they have the right to fire this woman.
However the story does raise one interesting issue:
How does the school determine whether or not their male teachers are having sex out of wedlock?
If their rules are being applied in a discriminatory manner, that makes it even more morally wrong that this woman was fired, although I would still maintain that the school is within their rights.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136395
11/22/05 08:40 AM
11/22/05 08:40 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098 Existential Well
svsg
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
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Originally posted by plawrence: From today's New York Post
However the story does raise one interesting issue:
How does the school dtermine whether or not their male teachers are have sex out of wedlock?
If their rules are being applied in a discriminatory manner, that makes it even more morally wrong that this woman was fired, although I would still maintain that the chool is within their rights. How does the school determine whether the female teachers are having sex out of wedlock? This woman was just unlucky, she chose to get pregnant. Otherwise who is to find out, irrespective of their genders? Is it discriminatory? Yes and no. Yes, because males will most likely never get caught. No, because in every "crime", only those who get caught are punished. If you are smart enough to escape it, no one can punish you. Nothing special in this case. The girl could have been slightly smarter though.
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136398
11/22/05 12:36 PM
11/22/05 12:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 770 UK
The Dr. who fixed Lucy
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 770
UK
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plawrence ...I would still maintain that the school is within their rights. Unless she was a prostitute, eh, plaw.
Joey ...
BANG BANG
... Saza!
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136402
11/22/05 01:21 PM
11/22/05 01:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145 East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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Don't act so dumb with me, for you are still a suspect! Think about it.....who is this non-prick? "Blessed are the peacemakers" "The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks." "Yes I am with you always, until the very end of time" I have no idea. :p
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136403
11/22/05 01:26 PM
11/22/05 01:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
OP
RIP StatMan
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OP
RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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Originally posted by Don Smitty: [quote]Originally posted by ronnierocketAGO: [b]Besides, why are pricks follow a religion revolving around a non-prick? What the hell does that mean? [/b][/quote]I was wondering about that myself. And after Ronnie's reply, I'm still wondering.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136406
11/22/05 02:33 PM
11/22/05 02:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Originally posted by Don Smitty: Ronnie, are you mocking the Catholic religion? Are you making fun of Jesus?
DS I think he is/
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136408
11/22/05 04:30 PM
11/22/05 04:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,854 Milky Way
Enzo Scifo
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,854
Milky Way
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Originally posted by Don Smitty: Are you making fun of Jesus? I think everyone should be made fun of. Why is Jezus so special that he shouldn't be made fun of? Originally posted by ronnierocketAGO: Besides, why are pricks (Leaders of the Catholic Church, and neocons) follow a religion revolving around a non-prick? (Jezus) The italicized things should make it more clear than it already was.
See, we can act as smart as we want, but at the end of the day, we still follow a guy who fucks himself with kebab skewers.
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136410
11/22/05 04:39 PM
11/22/05 04:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536 West Chester, PA
Patrick
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536
West Chester, PA
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Originally posted by Don Smitty: Ronnie, are you mocking the Catholic religion? Are you making fun of Jesus?
DS I was laughing at his joke, but now I'm laughing at you. So it's not okay for Ronnie to mock an aspect of the Catholic religion, but it's okay for someone to start spreading hate about Islam? Where were you when DJ posted that big article degrading it a few weeks ago? Don't play one side. BTW, I'm Catholic. And that'd be great if you could actually post your own response to this without actually running to DC and trying to tag team. Thanks!
"After every dark night, there's a bright day right after that. No matter how hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it." -Tupac Shakur
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136413
11/22/05 04:55 PM
11/22/05 04:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536 West Chester, PA
Patrick
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536
West Chester, PA
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Originally posted by Enzo Scifo: [quote]Originally posted by Patrick: [b] BTW, I'm Catholic. Do you believe in God? [/b][/quote]Not really. I'm agnostic about it. DV--You can't just become something. That's bullshit when people say they're a born again Christian and whatnot. I was born Catholic and there's nothing I can do that can change that.
"After every dark night, there's a bright day right after that. No matter how hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it." -Tupac Shakur
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136415
11/22/05 06:02 PM
11/22/05 06:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Originally posted by Patrick: And that'd be great if you could actually post your own response to this without actually running to DC and trying to tag team. Thanks! Pat, I didn't even make a post in this topic. So I would appreciate it if you would keep me out of your comments when I haven't even commented or posted in this thread. There was absolutely NO REASON whatsoever for you to bring my name up in your response to Don Smitty. Thank you. Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136417
11/22/05 09:50 PM
11/22/05 09:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766 South of the Pinelands
MaryCas
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
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There is an expression in the Catholic faith: "Giving good witness." An unmarried, pregnant teacher is not giving good witness. Now before all the non-believer and Catholic bashers respond with..."what about the guy, what about the pedophile priests, what about...." yeah, what about them. They're are sinners, and God can forgive them. That doesn't change the fact that any Catholic, Catholic institution or priest, bishop, whoever shouldn't keep trying to give good witness. Sure there is a lot of hypocrisy by people in the Catholic faith, but that doesn't mean you throw up your hands and say, what the heck, if Father O'Brien can diddle the altar boys then why can't I?
Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136418
11/22/05 10:01 PM
11/22/05 10:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145 East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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THANK YOU E. Brown! Really for a hippie :p , you actually knew Biblical quotations by Mr. J.C. himself, yet many others totally missed it.
Hell, strange how plawrence of all people didn't notice the "Blessed are the Peacemakers" quotation. I mean, I figured that was the obvious one, but then again, one can never assume.
Jesus Christ, Jesus of Nazareth, Isa, the Son of God, The Messiah(or "King") of the Isrealities....many names for the same mysterious person who's story of mythological miraculous birth to his self-journey to his ultimate message of love and compassion, and ultimately to his martyr death by the Romans...I myself was never fond of actually believing or taking such stories of multiplying bread and fish or resurrecting the dead or of course coming back himself as a zombie. However, the philosiphy and message is absolutely humanistic, and most importantly, noble.
It is unfortunate how all these assholes that run around waving the Bible, being absolutely mean and angry, of being mighty and moral....from Pat Robertson telling that town that voted out Intelligent Design out of its curriculum that they have "deserted" God, to many religious groups, loudly or violently, wanting to suppress the natural American Constitutional Civil Rights of homosexuals, to now this story.
Legally, I agree with others that the Courts will side with the school on this matter.
However, morally what the school did was wrong. What Christians don't remember that story of Jesus stopping that mob wanting to stone a woman to death because she committed adultery, and took a rock from someone and saying: "Who will cast the first stone upon themselves?"(NOTE: Ya I got the quote wrong, but the message still is conveyed).
As for someone that thought I was making fun of the Catholic Church, why? Fact is, the Church as it is today in terms of rituals and traditions somewhat date back to the Medievil Age, where society in Europe was defined in every facet of life in that the Classes or "Estates"(Peasants/Clergy/Nobles), and for everyone to remember that everyday in church.
Absolutely the Church itself helped child molestors among the "flock" in such coped-out excuses like of "compassion" or whatever, and not to mention all those Nazi war criminals that many parishes in Europe apparently helped and abided in keeping them from the avenging Allies and their War Crimes trials.
What annoys me about this story of how many serious Christians would protest and willingly at times commit violence to stop abortions("Murdering God's children!") yet seem to not show such savior-notions once that damn kid pops out of the womb. Why no love for the woman? She once was a fetus too you know.
From my time in this world, perhaps the reason for why such violent evil people abuse and bastardize text of peace and love is how for many people that are aggressive in wanting action, the religion and the people that prop up their "interpretations" of the text become such of excuse to everyone, truely a "cover". Consider the clerics in the Middle East who tell suicide bombers that innocent, and even muslim, civilians that die because of their acts are excused by Allah.....which of course is complete garbage according to the text itself, but clerics preach it, and it becomes the truth for many.
Funny enough, the Holy Bible itself for Christians, which many do use as their defense against gays for their "sinful lifestyle", actually in a technical manner only forbid "Men" per "laying in bed with each other"...so technically, God is cool with lesbians. Go read the text and think about it.
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136422
11/23/05 10:46 AM
11/23/05 10:46 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,893 The 5th circle of hell
Don Smitty
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,893
The 5th circle of hell
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Originally posted by Patrick: [quote]Originally posted by Don Smitty: [b] Ronnie, are you mocking the Catholic religion? Are you making fun of Jesus?
DS I was laughing at his joke, but now I'm laughing at you. So it's not okay for Ronnie to mock an aspect of the Catholic religion, but it's okay for someone to start spreading hate about Islam? Where were you when DJ posted that big article degrading it a few weeks ago? Don't play one side. BTW, I'm Catholic. And that'd be great if you could actually post your own response to this without actually running to DC and trying to tag team. Thanks! [/b][/quote]I don't mock the muslim religion. I do hate the people who say that they are muslim and then blow themselves up and kill people. I don't like people making fun of other peoples religion and that's what a few of you are doing here. I dont need DC or anyone else to team up against you. Maybe you need to run to other members here for help but I dont. DS
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Re: Unmarried Pregnant Teacher Fired by Catholic School
#136423
11/23/05 11:50 AM
11/23/05 11:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389 State Asylum
Snake
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389
State Asylum
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Ronnie, I don't see how you can say His message was "humanistic." If evolution, the big bang, etc., is true, then we should have no sense of morals, right & wrong, law, etc. Jesus' message transcends mankind. Read Isaiah 40 sometime if you think God's thinking is somehow the same as ours.
I agree with you about the loose cannons who run about under the banner of Christ spewing hate and venom. What you have to remember is that every faith, every political faction...heck, everyTHING has within it different sects, philosophies, etc. You cannot anymore lump ALL believers in the same arrogant, hateful categorey with Robertson and the like any more than I could say all Asians are like Chairman Mao. And the fact is, there have been just as many (probably MORE) atrocious acts done in the name of other non-religious, non-Christian, humanistic institutions as there have in the name of Christ. In other words, there are always nuts running around out there in all kinds of sizes and stripes.
I believe people make the Bible a lot more complicated to interpret than it is. If you read it as you would any other ordinary book (of course, recognizing that it isn't just an ordinary book), it makes perfect sense. In other words, taking into account historical context, cultural context, immediate context, figures of speech, symbolic language, etc. It doesn't set out to PROVE the existence of God, the Virgin Birth, etc. It just assumes them right off the bat. That's where the "faith factor" comes in. Hold whatever opinion of that you want, as is your right. But it's also my right to believe it, and although we can disagree about it, there's no reason I should be viewed as some idiot nut case who bombs abortion clinics. Fair enough?
Oddly, Jesus didn't legislate morality. He didn't run around Jerusalem holding picket signs and banging people over the head. He sought to change hearts. He knew that only through changed hearts does all the other follow. Unfortunately, many of His followers miss that. I'm not making excuses for them, because there IS no excuse for such behavior. But I would submit that you should remember just who it is that God is in the business of saving: sinners. There are a few requirements for one to become born again, according to Christ and the Bible: (1) You have to be a sinner; (2) you have to be an enemy of God (Romans 5); and (3) you have to not even be seeking God (Romans 3). Hey, when I got to the point in my life that I realized I met all the qualifications, I became born again, "not guilty" in the sight of God because of Christ's sacrifice. Am I still a sinner? Of course. But I'm with less excuse now to be such than I ever was before, and so are all these morons who run around with their message of hate.
BTW, the Bible does prohibit homosexuality in any gender. Read Leviticus if you have doubts. (The word used for "man" in Hebrew can be translated "mankind" as well. Check out Genesis where when God created man, "male and female, He created them.") Again, though, it also prohibits gossip, lying, etc., and I'd bet my bottom dollar that a lot of these Bible-bangers have done one or more of such sins. Granted, there ARE "degrees" of sin, but bottom line, it's ALL unrighteousness and sin in His eyes. And again, a lot of these folks (whether deliberately or not) conveniently forget that.
God doesn't need me to defend Him or the Bible, and I'm really not trying to. But I just think it's unfair to paint a portrait of Christians without taking into account that not all believers are like that. That's all.
"Vaya con Dios, Castle. Go with God." "God's going to sit this one out." The Punisher (2004)
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